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matroskin

Uk Bank Reorders My Transactions

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Hello all,

A quick question to financial services people or in fact to all who might know.

I noticed that my UK bank reorders transactions, presumably to get some overdraft charges from me.

Example:

- I log in to online banking, notice that I received money into my current account and transfer £3K from current to savings account

- later in the say, I decide to purchase something online using debit card, log in to online banking again and transfer £200 from savings to current account

- next day I log in to online banking and see that £200 transfer is listed above £3000 transfer. Chronologically, it is later but on the same day.

Any thoughts? I wonder if this practice is legal?

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Hello all,

A quick question to financial services people or in fact to all who might know.

I noticed that my UK bank reorders transactions, presumably to get some overdraft charges from me.

Example:

- I log in to online banking, notice that I received money into my current account and transfer £3K from current to savings account

- later in the say, I decide to purchase something online using debit card, log in to online banking again and transfer £200 from savings to current account

- next day I log in to online banking and see that £200 transfer is listed above £3000 transfer. Chronologically, it is later but on the same day.

Any thoughts? I wonder if this practice is legal?

If a bank does it, it must be legal. Simples.

(Actually, I think it's all reconciled at the end of the working day as far as the bank is concerned, so the order within the day is not particularly important. But I could be wrong.)

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If a bank does it, it must be legal. Simples.

(Actually, I think it's all reconciled at the end of the working day as far as the bank is concerned, so the order within the day is not particularly important. But I could be wrong.)

Thanks for your input.

It might be not important in my particular case as there is no overdraft on savings account, and if savings account does not have enough balance to be transferred out, then the transaction does not go through.

Imagine the situation with 2 current accounts with same bank, #1 has agreed overdraft of £100 and #2 has agreed overdraft of £150, both #1 and #2 have extra charges if their OD limits are exceeded.

Both #1 and #2 have 0 balance on day 1.

I receive £3000 into account #1 on day 2 morning.

So if I transfer £3K from #1 to #2 on day 2 morning, that's fine because I already received £3K into #1. And later during day 2, when I transfer £200 from #2 to #1, that should be OK as well. BUT - if £200 transaction is actually executed before £3000 transaction, it will generate nice tidy overdraft charge because £150 OD limit is exceeded.

Edited by matroskin

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You need to have cleared funds in your account the working day before you take them out. So, if you transfer money into your account, you should wait until the next day to withdraw them.

Don't shoot the messenger

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Debit/credit interest is calculated on the close of business balance, not what happens in between.

And buried in your T&Cs for the account, it will say that debits will be listed before credits on statements/online.

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You need to have cleared funds in your account the working day before you take them out. So, if you transfer money into your account, you should wait until the next day to withdraw them.

Don't shoot the messenger

This is just completely wrong.

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Factually incorrect or immoral?

Maybe with fast payments, and the decline of cheques this will change...

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My bank does that. I queried it with them and they said it makes no difference as it's all on the same day. I have never been charged interest, but it does annoy me that my account shows as having been overdrawn when it wasn't.

For example, if I have £500 in my current account, transfer £2,000 in from deposit, check current account shows £2,500 and then make an online transfer for £2,000. When I next log on, it has usually re-ordered the transactions to show me having been overdrawn by £1,500 for a short time.

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Cash in, and transfers within the same bank are, I believe, accessible immediately. Not sure about payments from other banks...

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Factually incorrect or immoral?

Maybe with fast payments, and the decline of cheques this will change...

Factually incorrect

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Cash in, and transfers within the same bank are, I believe, accessible immediately. Not sure about payments from other banks...

I make and receive same day payments all the time both domestic and overseas inter and intra banks, a CHAPS payment (UK same day) usually takes a matter of minutes to hit the account and is available for transfer from that point.

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Factually incorrect or immoral?

Maybe with fast payments, and the decline of cheques this will change...

Don't get me started on cheques !

Me "Hello, I am a business customer of your bank. We currently issue approx 300 cheques per month. I am sorting our banking procedures and need to know what the expiry time on a cheque is please? This is so I can cancel off cheques and re-issue if necessary"

Bank " 6 months sir"

Me " So, should a cheque be 6 months+ old, the receipient is unable to cash it?"

Bank " Yes sir, a cheque cannot be cashed if it is 6 months or older"

5 days later, having cancelled a cheque which was issued in July 2009 (Cancelled internally, not through the bank as this costs £12.50 per cheque stop) I see that the cheque ended up being cashed.

Me " You told me that cheques cannot be cashed if they are over six months old. We just had a cheque clear out of our account which was 17 months old"

Bank " Not all aspects of cheques are checked when they are processed - this one must have got through as the date wasn't checked"

Me "*%!s"

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Hello all,

A quick question to financial services people or in fact to all who might know.

I noticed that my UK bank reorders transactions, presumably to get some overdraft charges from me.

Example:

- I log in to online banking, notice that I received money into my current account and transfer £3K from current to savings account

- later in the say, I decide to purchase something online using debit card, log in to online banking again and transfer £200 from savings to current account

- next day I log in to online banking and see that £200 transfer is listed above £3000 transfer. Chronologically, it is later but on the same day.

Any thoughts? I wonder if this practice is legal?

It's not Halifax, is it? I had this exact same thing before where they tried to charge me for going overdrawn when clearly I hadn't. I just threatened to close the account and they backed down and cancelled the charge, that normally seems to work.

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Don't get me started on cheques !

Me "Hello, I am a business customer of your bank. We currently issue approx 300 cheques per month. I am sorting our banking procedures and need to know what the expiry time on a cheque is please? This is so I can cancel off cheques and re-issue if necessary"

Bank " 6 months sir"

Me " So, should a cheque be 6 months+ old, the receipient is unable to cash it?"

Bank " Yes sir, a cheque cannot be cashed if it is 6 months or older"

5 days later, having cancelled a cheque which was issued in July 2009 (Cancelled internally, not through the bank as this costs £12.50 per cheque stop) I see that the cheque ended up being cashed.

Me " You told me that cheques cannot be cashed if they are over six months old. We just had a cheque clear out of our account which was 17 months old"

Bank " Not all aspects of cheques are checked when they are processed - this one must have got through as the date wasn't checked"

Me "*%!s"

Years ago, before I had a business that I owned 100%, a sub-contract worker came to me with a cheque signed by another director and asked me for a second signature. As the invoice was in dispute, I refused to countersign the cheque, so he paid it in with one signature (mandate required two) and the bank accepted it.

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I make and receive same day payments all the time both domestic and overseas inter and intra banks, a CHAPS payment (UK same day) usually takes a matter of minutes to hit the account and is available for transfer from that point.

You're exactly right with regard to CHAPs as they're guaranteed payments... it just gets a bit iffy when someone goes overdrawn, e.g. a cheque debits the account, and they pay cash in later that day. The rule used to be that cash had to be there the day before... not sure what they do these days.

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Bank " Not all aspects of cheques are checked when they are processed - this one must have got through as the date wasn't checked"

Me "*%!s"

This is true,

I used to routinely pay in cheques where there was no signature and they all cleared. They only look at the amount in figures. Other parts of the cheque only get looked at if they would rather not pay it. I had one cheque returned cos they claimed the cheque guarantee number on the back of the cheque was in the same handwriting as the cheque itself. This was blatantly not the case and the cheque was honoured on re-presentation. Banks are scum. End of.

Re the OP, the re-ordering of transactions is quite normal and charges/interest etc are only calculated at end of the day afaik. However, like Bruce I find this annoying.

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Guest eight

Years ago, before I had a business that I owned 100%, a sub-contract worker came to me with a cheque signed by another director and asked me for a second signature. As the invoice was in dispute, I refused to countersign the cheque, so he paid it in with one signature (mandate required two) and the bank accepted it.

When I worked for Natwest one of the counter staff accepted one of those novelty cheques that you get from Reader's Digest. It didn't survive clearing though.

eight

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Hello all,

A quick question to financial services people or in fact to all who might know.

I noticed that my UK bank reorders transactions, presumably to get some overdraft charges from me.

Example:

- I log in to online banking, notice that I received money into my current account and transfer £3K from current to savings account

- later in the say, I decide to purchase something online using debit card, log in to online banking again and transfer £200 from savings to current account

- next day I log in to online banking and see that £200 transfer is listed above £3000 transfer. Chronologically, it is later but on the same day.

Any thoughts? I wonder if this practice is legal?

Is that Santander ? I had this problem with Santander in the past and rang them up and their staff could not worked out how these were done.

The problem here is the debit card with stantander system and the way the money are settled, particular after 6pm, or weekends.

Basically, the debit card will be deemed to be on the day you use the card, and the transfer are dated next working day. The t&c is not

very clear on this, but certainly make no provision for such ordering. In any case, the debit card authorisation system clearly knows

there is money there, else your card would have been rejected.

The trick is to walk into the branch and ask them to work it out by showing them that you are never in debit on any day. After some puzzling look, they refunded.

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  • 276 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

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      • down 5% +
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      • up 5%



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