Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum
miko

Have The Masses Woken Up

Recommended Posts

I have been a regular on this site for a few years now , from reading people's experiences , observations and antidotes I am sure the British economy is in dire straights. Due to such things as the high cost's of homes either rented or bought compared to earnings, the high levels of debt , the high unemployment , tho low savings rates , the situation in the pensions system, destruction of the manufacturing industries ect , ect, ect.

But in the world I inhabit it is as if many people go about their daily lives without giving much of it any thought and engaging in any conversation with many people they show how uninterested they are in talking about such matters. However just this weekend I was in conversation with two couples both strangers when I turned the conversation around to the economic situation and hey presto apart from a few prompts I did not have to say anything more .

Both set's of couples both in almost anger raised their voices and gave verse after verse about how bad things have got , how much worse it was going to get , how they were worried for their children , how they could see no way out ect ect. It was like having HPC shouted at me. Speaking to a good friend last night he also said people he knew that have had their heads up their ar-es for years have also started waking up . Anyone else feel that the mood is changing ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been a regular on this site for a few years now , from reading people's experiences , observations and antidotes I am sure the British economy is in dire straights. Due to such things as the high cost's of homes either rented or bought compared to earnings, the high levels of debt , the high unemployment , tho low savings rates , the situation in the pensions system, destruction of the manufacturing industries ect , ect, ect.

But in the world I inhabit it is as if many people go about their daily lives without giving much of it any thought and engaging in any conversation with many people they show how uninterested they are in talking about such matters. However just this weekend I was in conversation with two couples both strangers when I turned the conversation around to the economic situation and hey presto apart from a few prompts I did not have to say anything more .

Both set's of couples both in almost anger raised their voices and gave verse after verse about how bad things have got , how much worse it was going to get , how they were worried for their children , how they could see no way out ect ect. It was like having HPC shouted at me. Speaking to a good friend last night he also said people he knew that have had their heads up their ar-es for years have also started waking up . Anyone else feel that the mood is changing ?

Don't worry doesn't X-factor start again soon and you have to bet Channel 4 will have a totally chavtastic replacement for Big Brother come the summer ... oh and small wedding of the wedding of the regal chinnless one with an overly-chinned oink from Berkshire ...

Edited by montesquieu

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I get the feeling people are starting to wake up. For example over the last decade the troubles of young people to find good jobs that can support a family on.. families would blame their kids for their failures. And that was reinforced by the media, who made it seem like everyone else was doing so well. And giving tips on how people could improve on an individual level.

But its becoming too obvious to hide with lies. Like if 4 out of 5 families the kids are not able to launch, even if they try to hide it themselves, eventually it comes out. Like little Johnny can only be 'taking classes' for so long, before the excuse wears out.

Another example is the media makes it sound like everyone else in society is pro-free trade. Yet talk to people and ask them what they think of offshoring our manufacturing. People are worried about the loss of jobs here, the declining consumer market if we have no jobs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Had the same thing three times in the last week.

1. Mentioned the ludicrous asking price that an EA had just told me a house was on for to the check-out staff at my local Co-Op. Within minutes people in the queue and staff were ranting about house prices and their loathing of estate agents.

2. Mentioned to a couple I know that I am house hunting and they told me about a house opposite them on sale for 2 years for a price they think is ludicrous. They then said they had thought about upgrading to a biger home but they could not believe the prices being asked.

3. Was giving blood yesterday and the nurses was telling me how her children cannot find work or are in huge debt in Uni and cannot afford to ever buy a house.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But in the world I inhabit it is as if many people go about their daily lives without giving much of it any thought and engaging in any conversation.......

Agreed. Have observed the same too over the years.

Unless things get REALLY bad, I doubt this will change. People may well get grumpier and moodier but will still not talk or open their hearts to you, a la Oprah Winfrey shows, as I suspect that despite the modern tendency to public 'blubbing' there is still an element of the old British 'stiff upper lip'.

It takes quite a bit for someone to come out and shrug their shoulders and say things along the lines of "yep, I borrowed too much. I was a pr*t, it's all my own fault and nobody elses.....".

I too, like many here no doubt, know a fair few people who I ABSOLUTELY KNOW are in very difficult finanicial circumstances - but it just aint polite conversation to raise the issue if they dont.........

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmmm. I'm not so sure...There will always be sheep...they believe in what they are told by their friends and family...A huge amount of peer pressure comes into the equation, as does the "you can never lose out with bricks and mortar" mantra... I knew for years that this country was moving in an unsustainable direction... The one thing that opened my eyes was when I saw a crappy 2 bed newish build house on my estate, double in price from '97 to '03-'04

People around me have tried to get me to see their way of thinking, and when I hear about their distorted views regarding the housing market, I just shut my mouth...I can't be arsed to get involved..too much hassle

Edited by Dave Beans

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, when you and all your friends have their adult kids still at home, even after uni, you start to wonder if something is up.

When you have a bunch of friends or family members having hours cut, facing redundacy, getting a pay freeze/cut then maybe something is up.

When your shopping bill has taken a leap, your car gets less milage for a tenner, and pensioners lose £50 off the winter fuel allowance, you know something is up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Close relative is a teacher, mid 20's, has been living at home with parents with zero overheads.

She recently bought a nice car for cash and was saying her next one was going to be a SUV at double the price. And she enjoys 2 foreign holidays a year.

She took my kids to the cinema a few months ago and i handed the kids enough cash for tickets +popcorn. She gave me back the money and said 'I can afford it.. im a teacher you know'

Now her parents want her, actually forcing her, to move out of the quite large family home.

So she started to look around and was shocked to find that all she can realistically afford on her salary is to rent a studio flat/slave box.

Poor girl has just woken up to the harsh realities of life in the real world.

Edited by MonkeyNuts

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I blame King Harold myself; if only he had blinked.....

Seriously though, this forum has more than it's fair share of Thatcher advocates who almost claim that she single handedly saved us from total economic meltdown. Others, like me, can see that the root of many of today's ills result from the sea change that I don't deny took place back then. Nobody can say what would have happened if Thatcherism and Reaganomics had never been visited upon western economies but we can pass judgment on what has happened since and easily find proof of cause and effect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Close relative is a teacher, mid 20's, has been living at home with parents with zero overheads.

She recently bought a nice car for cash and was saying her next one was going to be a SUV at double the price. And she enjoys 2 foreign holidays a year.

She took my kids to the cinema a few months ago and i handed the kids enough cash for tickets +popcorn. She gave me back the money and said 'I can afford it.. im a teacher you know'

Now her parents want her, actually forcing her, to move out..

So she started to look around and was shocked to find that all she can realistically afford on her salary is to rent a studio flat/slave box.

Poor girl has just woken up to the harsh realities of life in the real world.

Back in my youth I was very comfortable before I left home and still pretty good when I moved in with my girlfriend, although it was only a shared equity studio flat that we bought from a friend. Double income no kids meant two holidays a year and a brand new car outside.

These days just insuring the car is enough to make you poor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, when you and all your friends have their adult kids still at home, even after uni, you start to wonder if something is up.

When you have a bunch of friends or family members having hours cut, facing redundacy, getting a pay freeze/cut then maybe something is up.

When your shopping bill has taken a leap, your car gets less milage for a tenner, and pensioners lose £50 off the winter fuel allowance, you know something is up.

It's them housing benefits.

You've got to do a bit of DIY to get your ironing done and you get a poke.

Only problem is, everyone else is at it, you don't know which potential single mother you'll end up knocking up next and if somebody shags a wrong un the whole estate and maybe a few others are down the GUM clinic.

Very few of the lads keep women, and those that do will live separate from their partners by the state defined amount of time one needs to claim benefits/tax credits separately.

.

We need to reform the entire tax-benefit system, Universal credit is a minor step in the right direction, although the 65-74% EMTR is very unfavourable as a work incentive. 50% would make sense, it is the top rate of tax for the highest earners (and progressive taxation is preached by all).

A 50% tax on a £10 job is more likely to make you turn the work down than a 50% tax on a £10 million job.

1 adult = x benefits/tax free allowance or benefit+tax free wage for low earners.

a child should be y

2y = 1x

Reap some healthy seeds and grow a decent society.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, when you and all your friends have their adult kids still at home, even after uni, you start to wonder if something is up.

This is the big one for the future , adult kids which means adult's if they have a job are still earning pocket money .

In one of the conversations I had the woman said

" If my children get jobs they will be £6 an hour touches how are they going to pay off their student debt's and buy a house on that "

Her husband then chipped in listing a whole range of well paid jobs that have gone and another list of cheap jobs that they have been replaced with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seriously though, this forum has more than it's fair share of Thatcher advocates who almost claim that she single handedly saved us from total economic meltdown. Others, like me, can see that the root of many of today's ills result from the sea change that I don't deny took place back then. Nobody can say what would have happened if Thatcherism and Reaganomics had never been visited upon western economies but we can pass judgment on what has happened since and easily find proof of cause and effect.

If Thatcher or Reagan never existed, the powers that be would have found other lackeys to promote thier agenda and we would just be calling the same phenomena by another name.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is the big one for the future , adult kids which means adult's if they have a job are still earning pocket money .

In one of the conversations I had the woman said

" If my children get jobs they will be £6 an hour touches how are they going to pay off their student debt's and buy a house on that "

Her husband then chipped in listing a whole range of well paid jobs that have gone and another list of cheap jobs that they have been replaced with.

Yes, but then they will put their house on and wonder why "it won't sell". They can either have high prices or jobs for their children. Has the connect been made between the two yet, I don't know...

Edited by Britney's Piers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's them housing benefits.

You've got to do a bit of DIY to get your ironing done and you get a poke.

Only problem is, everyone else is at it, you don't know which potential single mother you'll end up knocking up next and if somebody shags a wrong un the whole estate and maybe a few others are down the GUM clinic.

Very few of the lads keep women, and those that do will live separate from their partners by the state defined amount of time one needs to claim benefits/tax credits separately.

.

We need to reform the entire tax-benefit system, Universal credit is a minor step in the right direction, although the 65-74% EMTR is very unfavourable as a work incentive. 50% would make sense, it is the top rate of tax for the highest earners (and progressive taxation is preached by all).

A 50% tax on a £10 job is more likely to make you turn the work down than a 50% tax on a £10 million job.

1 adult = x benefits/tax free allowance or benefit+tax free wage for low earners.

a child should be y

2y = 1x

Reap some healthy seeds and grow a decent society.

We need to do something with the benefits system, it's become a monster that will eat us all.

One poster on here a few years ago commented, brilliantly I thought, welfare had ceased to be a safety net and had become a hammock.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Back in my youth I was very comfortable before I left home and still pretty good when I moved in with my girlfriend, although it was only a shared equity studio flat that we bought from a friend. Double income no kids meant two holidays a year and a brand new car outside.

These days just insuring the car is enough to make you poor.

40% salary blink.gif

Rent and Ctax is 50%

With your 10% of 40 hours @ min wage (if your lucky on the hours front) you'll have £20

Thats your weekly food, utilities and petrol.

£5 realistic petrol budget for week, the radius of posible employment at min wage if your a car owning renter from the state is thus the distance you can travel on 50p's worth of petrol.

If hmrc let you claim 45p a mile, thats 1.1miles.

(I think the 45p a mile is suppose to be taking to account all the costs of motoring? - obviously age does not compute).

The dole it is for the youth, expect youth unemployment to rise.

Or you get a £20 bus ticket and pay a tenner to leave arbitrary boundary of a weekend.

15% travel on you 50% rent/ctax leaving you with 35% of £200, the £70 is for your utilities, food and social life.

At £3 a pint, you stay in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People around me have tried to get me to see their way of thinking, and when I hear about their distorted views regarding the housing market, I just shut my mouth...I can't be arsed to get involved..too much hassle

You try to explain to them that the economy is just a big Ponzi scheme and you're met with blank stares...

Pond Zee skiing? What's that?

"Mad Off"? The biggest fraud of all time you say? Never heard of him. What's he done?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, but then they will put their house on and wonder why "it won't sell". They can either have high prices or jobs for their children. Has the connect been made between the two yet, I don't know...

No it is not just high house prices that have taken away the jobs.

The wages have been falling for years . Two big reasons for this one is the inflation lies that wages were raised in line with . The false low figures led to years of low pay rises. The second reason is that when people left jobs, retired or there were shake ups in companies new people were bought in at lower wages than had been paid in the past. This has happened in the private sector and the lower rungs of the public sector , agency workers with little rights and no job security have taken many full time permenant postions.

One reason many people did not realize this was happening was that they felt comfortable as their house went up in price. Human nature will make it difficult for anyone to see their house drop in value ( whether that is greed or not is another matter ) it is human nature , but if we had not had years of cheap easy credit their houses would never have reached the highs that they did , so those same people would not have to contemplate any fall.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Or you become disillusioned with working altogether and sign back onto the dole.

Perhaps onto disability ph34r.gif

Workers get a bad deal, especially those on lower wages.

Lots of great posts from you tonight.

I agree, no benefits for kids, no separate housing benefit, and at low income levels, marginal tax should be very low, maybe 15% until you get to 20 grand a year. And that is real marginal tax including loss of benefit.

That might cause some hardship for a while, but attitudes need to change. We will all get poorer if working is the second best option, and only a few of us will understand why.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

40% salary blink.gif

Rent and Ctax is 50%

With your 10% of 40 hours @ min wage (if your lucky on the hours front) you'll have £20

Thats your weekly food, utilities and petrol.

£5 realistic petrol budget for week, the radius of posible employment at min wage if your a car owning renter from the state is thus the distance you can travel on 50p's worth of petrol.

If hmrc let you claim 45p a mile, thats 1.1miles.

(I think the 45p a mile is suppose to be taking to account all the costs of motoring? - obviously age does not compute).

The dole it is for the youth, expect youth unemployment to rise.

Or you get a £20 bus ticket and pay a tenner to leave arbitrary boundary of a weekend.

15% travel on you 50% rent/ctax leaving you with 35% of £200, the £70 is for your utilities, food and social life.

At £3 a pint, you stay in.

All agreed,

Pubs are empty now except for the diners. Without hot food 90% of them would have gone ages ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 309 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.