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Saberu

Britain In A Nutshell

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After hearing this UK Uncut representative passionately argue over completely cosmetic issues I thought I'd write an email to them which explains why the structural unemployment issue and the very way people are trying to make a living is a much bigger threat than giving us a cut in income tax by improving tax collecting from corporations.

Here it is, I even spellchecked it just incase Mrs Bear marches into the thread :lol:

Hey there,

I heard an interview with a girl from UK Uncut on the following programme-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0070jd4

As a young British guy myself I completely support your movement, though I took the easy option as I'm an expat. However the level of debate displayed by the girl in this interview is dire, but I can't say I'm surprised because almost all debates in British politics are looking at superficial issues and not the major causes of current problems. So I thought I'd put forth my opinion to you (I am assuming you to be one of the leaders of the UK Uncut site and movement) via email about the causes of Britain's situation all or some of which you may be aware of or agree with.

The main problem with Britain is structural unemployment, mass tax evasion and avoidance by corporations (though it's probably more than you think) is the second biggest problem but nowhere near as important as the first.

The structural unemployment is a result of a host of factors; manufacturing moving offshore, the huge increase in productivity brought about by advances in IT. The reason unemployment is so bad here is mainly because of losing our manufacturing base, and the main reasons we lost it are excessive land planning laws causing commercial and residential land values to spiral and a destructively high tax system.

Basically our standard of living is dropping because we now have to compete with countries that have very low taxes and very low land values filtering through into low costs of living and doing business- I'm talking mainly China and India here but many countries conform to this description. Our standard of living is going to keep dropping as long as we remain an overpriced, overtaxed nation.

Another point I want to make is, the logical conclusion of the huge efficiency gains obtained from the coming of the oil age, and the IT age is we should have standards of living which are multiples more comfortable than they were 30 years ago yet a lot of evidence out there suggests living standards now are lower and our generation (I'm 24) have a lot less opportunity than the boomers had.

Even a revolution will not fix this because there is no way we could compete with China and India on cost, the solution for young people like us is to stop being the corporate lackey looking for a promotion and use the technology out there like IT to compete with the businesses which have off shored our jobs. Machines and computers have made most peoples skills redundant and this will get much worse over the next 30 years, under a capitalist system this means the average person doesn't deserve a living which is why the benefits system is saving our government from social instability.

To explain this further, capitalism put simply is the efficient mix of capital and labour in the aim to persuade other capital holders to give them some capital. This used to be great for the average person back when a strong back or good mathematical skills were enough to get a job which actually pays a good living. But now because of advances in IT and centralization of communities with the improved efficiencies in marketing that brings- capital has become a much more powerful force than labour.

I personally can think of a lot of examples of businesses outside of highly taxed nations like Britain where the initial capital investment can be made back in the first year of profit for the business. Economies of scale and barriers to entry also put capital holders in much stronger positions than labour.

Looking forward to hearing your views on my opinions, thanks for your time!

Regards,

Saberu

Edited by Saberu

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You have almost certainly wasted your time. I emailed them to point out some major tax issues they could have protested about and they were just into the idea of invading top shop.

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Its heading straight for the wastepaper bin.

They dont care about causes. All they care about is what they want, that they want it now, and screw you if your'e a taxpayer held to ransom.

I wouldnt waste my time personally. Just keep being an expat and watch Britain implode from a far. Its not really worth saving after 13 years of Za-nu labour anyway.

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You have almost certainly wasted your time. I emailed them to point out some major tax issues they could have protested about and they were just into the idea of invading top shop.

Exactly. I rememebr the 'may day' protests that got violent in the early 2000's. They put flyers up around my sixth form advertising it as a 'day of smashing up Mcdonalds'

If anyone see's these protests as anything other than a bunch of testosterone plagued young men (and a few young women!) using it as an excuse to vent their nasty side, they're delusional.

None of them could care less about cuts. Most are like this guy...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1370966/TUC-anti-cuts-London-march-Fortnum-Masons-invader-Adam-Ramsay.html

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After hearing this UK Uncut representative (...)

Well done for pointing up to them the vital importance of property costs, for business and families. (Please see my sig., below.)

But India has a huge trade deficit, one of the biggest in the world. And Germany and Japan (before the earthquake, poor souls) have huge trade surpluses, amongst the biggest in the world too. That happens because salary levels are just one factor determining a country productivity and hence international competitiveness. Other factors also play a vital role, like infrastructure (housing included), stability, (security/safety), efficient government services, low corruption, etc., etc. Moreover, salary levels are actually a consequence of all these other factors, because when a country gets its act together, investors poor in, and start to compete for labour, pushing salaries up.

If we had lower property costs we would be much more competitive. Besides, we would be able to have a much better quality of life - let's not forget that housing is by far the biggest cost of living.

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Well done for pointing up to them the vital importance of property costs, for business and families. (Please see my sig., below.)

+1 too for actually doing something.

Merely posting thoughts to other HPCers is likely to bring you affirmation of your point of view and little else. Most people in this country are incredibly ignorant about why we are in such an economic mess and how high prices have been at the centre of that. It's time to take the wisdom of this site to them. I regularly debate these issues with EAs over on the EA Today site (where I do not get the warmest receptions) and have recently written to my MP to voice my frustration over the FTB scheme in the budget.

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+1 too for actually doing something.

Merely posting thoughts to other HPCers is likely to bring you affirmation of your point of view and little else. Most people in this country are incredibly ignorant about why we are in such an economic mess and how high prices have been at the centre of that. It's time to take the wisdom of this site to them. I regularly debate these issues with EAs over on the EA Today site (where I do not get the warmest receptions) and have recently written to my MP to voice my frustration over the FTB scheme in the budget.

Sure, I try to post in newspapers as well, and I've emailed the main UK economics journalists about this point - in my sig.

But don't underestimate the importance of this forum. We do learn from each other, preparing ourselves better for debates "outside". And many visitors do learn from us as well, and spread "the messages" - including journalists.

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The banksters. You forgot about the banking system.

If you buy a house, you're pledging nearly all your future wealth creation to them in the form of a mortgage.

If you rent, you just do the same thing using your landlord as a proxy.

If things go wrong, you pledge (well the government pledges on your behalf) your future wealth creation to bail them out.

If things go well, they take the profits and run.

If you can't afford the mortgage, you pledge to give them bricks and mortar back, and still get chased for the difference.

If you don't borrow from them, they'll inflate the money supply into extinction, so your wages and buying power buys less every day.

If you save with them, they will give you less than inflation in return.

They get everyone on the way up, and on the way down, and then press the reset button and start again.

Everything else is just a sideshow.

We're slaves to the banksters.

Focus, UK Uncut, FOCUS. You're fighting shadows.

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[pedant]

Capitalism works fine, it has been responsible for a massive rise in living standards over the last 250 years (look at the places that did not have capitalism over the same time period like China)

What we have now is not capitalism it is coporatism which is when a small elite in power rig the rules for their friends that run all the big companies and banks. They change the rules so that they win and small businesses and ordinary workers are shafted.

[/pedant]

Don't bite the hand that feeds you capitalism is great, let's get some more of it!

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The banksters. You forgot about the banking system.

If you buy a house, you're pledging nearly all your future wealth creation to them in the form of a mortgage.

If you rent, you just do the same thing using your landlord as a proxy.

If things go wrong, you pledge (well the government pledges on your behalf) your future wealth creation to bail them out.

If things go well, they take the profits and run.

If you can't afford the mortgage, you pledge to give them bricks and mortar back, and still get chased for the difference.

If you don't borrow from them, they'll inflate the money supply into extinction, so your wages and buying power buys less every day.

If you save with them, they will give you less than inflation in return.

They get everyone on the way up, and on the way down, and then press the reset button and start again.

Everything else is just a sideshow.

We're slaves to the banksters.

Focus, UK Uncut, FOCUS. You're fighting shadows.

Fantastic post 1000000000+

The government is also there to serve the banksters; one only has to look at the average history and make up of the delightful leaches whom occupy the Houses of Parliament to see proof of this.

They will keep the underclass bribed so they can just afford to stay in an an inebriated state on booze or consuming chemical-laden, nutrient deficient mush (all processed foods). Processed foods do an excellent job of inhibiting brain development (due to nutrient deficiencies) and they chemically-devoid the body of fulfilment and vital dietary components, leading to a depressed, moronic and unfocused human being; one who is unlikely to question or rebel against anything the government does.

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All those well known and so called "revolutionaries" decades ago opposing the then establishment. Straw and Hain and quite a few others and then making a beeline for power and how did they turn out but little or no different to those they opposed in their youth.

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The banksters. You forgot about the banking system.

If you buy a house, you're pledging nearly all your future wealth creation to them in the form of a mortgage.

If you rent, you just do the same thing using your landlord as a proxy.

If things go wrong, you pledge (well the government pledges on your behalf) your future wealth creation to bail them out.

If things go well, they take the profits and run.

If you can't afford the mortgage, you pledge to give them bricks and mortar back, and still get chased for the difference.

If you don't borrow from them, they'll inflate the money supply into extinction, so your wages and buying power buys less every day.

If you save with them, they will give you less than inflation in return.

They get everyone on the way up, and on the way down, and then press the reset button and start again.

Everything else is just a sideshow.

We're slaves to the banksters.

Focus, UK Uncut, FOCUS. You're fighting shadows.

11/10. B)

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After hearing this UK Uncut representative passionately argue over completely cosmetic issues I thought I'd write an email to them which explains why the structural unemployment issue and the very way people are trying to make a living is a much bigger threat than giving us a cut in income tax by improving tax collecting from corporations.

Here it is, I even spellchecked it just incase Mrs Bear marches into the thread :lol:

Hey there,

I heard an interview with a girl from UK Uncut on the following programme-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0070jd4

As a young British guy myself I completely support your movement, though I took the easy option as I'm an expat. However the level of debate displayed by the girl in this interview is dire, but I can't say I'm surprised because almost all debates in British politics are looking at superficial issues and not the major causes of current problems. So I thought I'd put forth my opinion to you (I am assuming you to be one of the leaders of the UK Uncut site and movement) via email about the causes of Britain's situation all or some of which you may be aware of or agree with.

The main problem with Britain is structural unemployment, mass tax evasion and avoidance by corporations (though it's probably more than you think) is the second biggest problem but nowhere near as important as the first.

The structural unemployment is a result of a host of factors; manufacturing moving offshore, the huge increase in productivity brought about by advances in IT. The reason unemployment is so bad here is mainly because of losing our manufacturing base, and the main reasons we lost it are excessive land planning laws causing commercial and residential land values to spiral and a destructively high tax system.

Basically our standard of living is dropping because we now have to compete with countries that have very low taxes and very low land values filtering through into low costs of living and doing business- I'm talking mainly China and India here but many countries conform to this description. Our standard of living is going to keep dropping as long as we remain an overpriced, overtaxed nation.

Another point I want to make is, the logical conclusion of the huge efficiency gains obtained from the coming of the oil age, and the IT age is we should have standards of living which are multiplies more comfortable than they were 30 years ago yet a lot of evidence out there suggests living standards now are lower and our generation (I'm 24) have a lot less opportunity than the boomers had.

Even a revolution will not fix this because there is no way we could compete with China and India on cost, the solution for young people like us is to stop being the corporate lackey looking for a promotion and use the technology out there like IT to compete with the businesses which have off shored our jobs. Machines and computers have made most peoples skills redundant and this will get much worse over the next 30 years, under a capitalist system this means the average person doesn't deserve a living which is why the benefits system is saving our government from social instability.

To explain this further, capitalism put simply is the efficient mix of capital and labour in the aim to persuade other capital holders to give them some capital. This used to be great for the average person back when a strong back or good mathematical skills were enough to get a job which actually pays a good living. But now because of advances in IT and centralization of communities with the improved efficiencies in marketing that brings- capital has become a much more powerful force than labour.

I personally can think of a lot of examples of businesses outside of highly taxed nations like Britain where the initial capital investment can be made back in the first year of profit for the business. Economies of scale and barriers to entry also put capital holders in much stronger positions than labour.

Looking forward to hearing your views on my opinions, thanks for your time!

Regards,

Saberu

12/10!

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Exactly.

We live in a Plutocracy where the richest have political control. It just so happens that (as some idiots decided to give them control over the world's reserve currency) the banks are probably the richest and have greatest influence... of course there are many other corporations that wield power over us... ever wonder why we are so quick to spend billions on firing missiles at oil rich nations?

The banksters. You forgot about the banking system.

If you buy a house, you're pledging nearly all your future wealth creation to them in the form of a mortgage.

If you rent, you just do the same thing using your landlord as a proxy.

If things go wrong, you pledge (well the government pledges on your behalf) your future wealth creation to bail them out.

If things go well, they take the profits and run.

If you can't afford the mortgage, you pledge to give them bricks and mortar back, and still get chased for the difference.

If you don't borrow from them, they'll inflate the money supply into extinction, so your wages and buying power buys less every day.

If you save with them, they will give you less than inflation in return.

They get everyone on the way up, and on the way down, and then press the reset button and start again.

Everything else is just a sideshow.

We're slaves to the banksters.

Focus, UK Uncut, FOCUS. You're fighting shadows.

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The banksters. You forgot about the banking system.

If you buy a house, you're pledging nearly all your future wealth creation to them in the form of a mortgage.

If you rent, you just do the same thing using your landlord as a proxy.

If things go wrong, you pledge (well the government pledges on your behalf) your future wealth creation to bail them out.

If things go well, they take the profits and run.

If you can't afford the mortgage, you pledge to give them bricks and mortar back, and still get chased for the difference.

If you don't borrow from them, they'll inflate the money supply into extinction, so your wages and buying power buys less every day.

If you save with them, they will give you less than inflation in return.

They get everyone on the way up, and on the way down, and then press the reset button and start again.

Everything else is just a sideshow.

We're slaves to the banksters.

Focus, UK Uncut, FOCUS. You're fighting shadows.

Good post. There is only one way to save and it becomes inflation proof at the same time. The one thing that bankers hate, and allows you to be excluded of the banking system, the only thing that is a ticket out of debt slavery. It is the hitching post of the financial universe.

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We're slaves to the banksters.

The bankers and governments are the same people. I believe mortgages and loans are just a way to rob more money from people, and are things which are only a necessity in life due to the unnaturally high cost of living in the first place.

The Government/ Banking establishment rob people three times over, once by inflated land prices making living and business costs exorbitantly expensive, secondly via tax and lastly via charging interest on the supply of money.

+1 too for actually doing something.

OP - great letter. Sums things up very well indeed. This should be the stuff that newspapers are aligning with.

12/10!

Thanks. If I thought it had a chance of being in a newspaper I would already have submitted it to them, I just don't trust journalists. Besides I only typed it out quickly in frustration after hearing how rubbish that girl had interviewed on radio 5.

I've never tried submitting anything to media like newspapers or television but I strongly suspect if you called up a national newspaper and sent them your own article the journalist reading it would either bin it, or bin it then rewrite it in his own words with his own political slant.

Which is exactly what happens all the time, many journalists will be getting their good ideas on economics and house prices from this forum then rewriting in their own words usually adding a biased slant towards their own generation's viewpoint, ie boomers.

Edited by Saberu

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Exactly.

We live in a Plutocracy where the richest have political control. It just so happens that (as some idiots decided to give them control over the world's reserve currency) the banks are probably the richest and have greatest influence... of course there are many other corporations that wield power over us... ever wonder why we are so quick to spend billions on firing missiles at oil rich nations?

+1

The UK is one of the advanced nations when it comes to developing a Plutocracy. Years of social engineering stretcing back to Edward Bernays has gone into creating populations ripe for 'harvesting'.

We now have masses who are so busy looking up (aspiration they call it) that they are too busy looking at the fact that they are enchained through debt, like rats in a cage pressing the button for more and more pellets of consumerist tat, giving more and more of their income to the 'lenders' of money. All whilst they have a sham democracy where the main parties have a cartel on the votes and ensure that their is no real notion of 'choice' as their paymasters and lobbyists are the same.

What the UK and many other developed nations need is a rise of political choice - a new political party.

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  • 276 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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