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Bt9 - Rateable Value 700K , Offers Around 495K

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I wouldn't want to be paying the £375pm / £4,500pa rates bill...

Risking another well justified class war here, they don't actually have to pay that much, as a cap on rates was introduced so the rich wouldn't have to pay as much tax as the lower orders.

iHasta la revolucion siempre!

Edited by yadayada

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Risking another well justified class war here, they don't actually have to pay that much, as a cap on rates was introduced so the rich wouldn't have to pay as much tax as the lower orders.

iHasta la revolucion siempre!

I think you will find that those paying the max rates do pay more than the average

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I think you will find that those paying the max rates do pay more than the average

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Pointless statement.

The amount they pay is capped to ensure they pay less than they should. Since one ratepayer's tax break is another ratepayer's excessive bill, those who live in smaller houses are subsidising those in bigger ones. Scandalous.

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Pointless statement.

The amount they pay is capped to ensure they pay less than they should. Since one ratepayer's tax break is another ratepayer's excessive bill, those who live in smaller houses are subsidising those in bigger ones. Scandalous.

Do they get any more for their rates than people living in smaller houses?

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Nonsense yadayada. Rates were never supposed to be a tax. If all householders get the same council services then why should someone in a bigger house pay more? If anything those in bigger houses subsidise those in smaller houses. I say this as a ratepayer in a smaller house.

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Nonsense yadayada. Rates were never supposed to be a tax. If all householders get the same council services then why should someone in a bigger house pay more? If anything those in bigger houses subsidise those in smaller houses. I say this as a ratepayer in a smaller house.

Rates are a property tax. If they followed the value of the house (as they used to), those in bigger houses would pay proportionately more (as they used to), and those in smaller houses would be able to pay less (as they used to). I'm impressed at your willingness to bail out the deserving rich. Could I interest you in paying my high rate income tax for me?

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Rates are a property tax. If they followed the value of the house (as they used to), those in bigger houses would pay proportionately more (as they used to), and those in smaller houses would be able to pay less (as they used to). I'm impressed at your willingness to bail out the deserving rich. Could I interest you in paying my high rate income tax for me?

If you are getting paid enough to be on the high rate for income tax - what is your gripe with paying rates?

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If you are getting paid enough to be on the high rate for income tax - what is your gripe with paying rates?

All I want is justice.

I don't pay rates - rented house.

And if you're happy to finance someone else's tax break, you're just like those Americans in trailer parks who turned out to vote for Bush, while he cut taxes for the rich and took away support for the poor. Although they did have illiteracy as an excuse.

Rates used to be fair until the cap.

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All I want is justice.

I don't pay rates - rented house.

And if you're happy to finance someone else's tax break, you're just like those Americans in trailer parks who turned out to vote for Bush, while he cut taxes for the rich and took away support for the poor. Although they did have illiteracy as an excuse.

Rates used to be fair until the cap.

Fair?????????

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Rates used to be fair until the cap.

I agree, until they put it up directly. There has to be a cap as you are getting a very limited service. Those who cant afford pay nothing.

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I agree, until they put it up directly. There has to be a cap as you are getting a very limited service. Those who cant afford pay nothing.

Part of it goes towards paying for governing Northern Ireland, not just your town, which costs a lot. Why not cap income tax, too, since you're getting a limited service? I believe those cruise missiles cost half a million each. They've done nothing for me.

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I agree, until they put it up directly. There has to be a cap as you are getting a very limited service. Those who cant afford pay nothing.

It's not about service useage. A family of 7 in a £200 RV House will pay the same as a pensioner in a similarly rated property yet will use more education/health services, have cars on the road perhaps (gritting/streetlights/improvements/new roads), use more (subsidised) water, subsidised public transport, transport to school etc. etc. etc. From Oct even vacant properties will pay rates, with little in the way of service useage. Did you know ATMs and car parking spaces are also rateable.

There are, as you say those that can't pay but also those that won't pay. Landlords get extra discounts as do some pensioners.

I struggle to see the fairness.

It is a tax.

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It's not about service useage. A family of 7 in a £200 RV House will pay the same as a pensioner in a similarly rated property yet will use more education/health services, have cars on the road perhaps (gritting/streetlights/improvements/new roads), use more (subsidised) water, subsidised public transport, transport to school etc. etc. etc. From Oct even vacant properties will pay rates, with little in the way of service useage. Did you know ATMs and car parking spaces are also rateable.

There are, as you say those that can't pay but also those that won't pay. Landlords get extra discounts as do some pensioners.

I struggle to see the fairness.

It is a tax.

So how would you raise the money? Without giving the Malone Road a free ride at everyone else's expense?

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So how would you raise the money? Without giving the Malone Road a free ride at everyone else's expense?

Not my problem. I'm not elected. Just commenting on the fairness angle. There is probably no perfectly fair taxation system. Certainly not rates based on a notional house value which then supposedly correlates with "service usage".

For what its worth I agree the cap is just one further angle of unfairness. No one that can pay it gets a free ride, not even the Malone Road. In that respect the system is at least consistently unfair.

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Not my problem. I'm not elected. Just commenting on the fairness angle. There is probably no perfectly fair taxation system. Certainly not rates based on a notional house value which then supposedly correlates with "service usage".

For what its worth I agree the cap is just one further angle of unfairness. No one that can pay it gets a free ride, not even the Malone Road. In that respect the system is at least consistently unfair.

It's a wealth tax rather than an income tax. Nothing wrong with that - France has a levy on your overall wealth. Property tax in the US is thousands of dollars on your house every year. And if you don't pay it they sell your house.

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It's a wealth tax rather than an income tax. Nothing wrong with that - France has a levy on your overall wealth. Property tax in the US is thousands of dollars on your house every year. And if you don't pay it they sell your house.

Well what is it then - a service tax or a wealth tax? There is an implicit assumption that one's wealth is linked to a notional value of a property. As we know, some people overstretch and can barely keep their heads above water, others may be on a fixed income pension with no savings, and at the other end some may have lots of disposable income and savings yet decide to live in frugal surroundings. Wealth doesn't always equate to a big house.

Rates used to be based, from 1978 to 2005, on the notional rent you would get if you let your house out!!! They also vary from council to council (the local Govt. element) so, in theory, the same RV houses on opposite sides of the street could pay different rates if council boundaries split them. Rural dwellers may query the level of services provided as against those in Urban areas (whilst paying the same rates). The list goes on.

Irrespective of what they do in France or the US, It's still a tax. Unfairness can be found in both the theory and the practice of this tax.

But, for the time being it is, as they say, the only game in town. I don't lose any sleep over it.

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Rates are a property tax. If they followed the value of the house (as they used to), those in bigger houses would pay proportionately more (as they used to), and those in smaller houses would be able to pay less (as they used to). I'm impressed at your willingness to bail out the deserving rich. Could I interest you in paying my high rate income tax for me?

Rates are an effective tax although they were never originally intended to be. That is my point. I don't see why ownership of property should be taxed over and above the amount required for vital services. As for your last comment, I've no interest in being drawn into an immature pissing contest.

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.As for your last comment, I've no interest in being drawn into an immature pissing contest.

Nothing of the sort. I just can't see the point of charity for the rich.

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Nothing of the sort. I just can't see the point of charity for the rich.

Probably fairer to tax incomes, rather than tax high valued properties. A lot of people live in properties that are worth a lot, and if by chance they bought them when they were worthless and don't have huge incomes (maybe they are teachers / retired), they still have to pay high rates.

Much better to just increase income tax for higher earners IMO.

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As I understand it, rates do not pay for services - they are not kept by councils and go into a central pot (I may well be wrong on this - can anyone help?), therefore they are simply another tax, a property tax.

While not as good as a Land Value Tax, they are a step in the right direction - taxes on property rather than income are fairer, encourage production rather than rentierism and speculation and are less of a drag on economic activity. I would argue that they should be hiked significantly and income, corporation and other taxes reduced accordingly.

People that are asset rich and income poor should downsize to release housing space, or there could be a system where their property taxes are rolled up and payed when their house is sold.

Edited by shipbuilder

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  • 312 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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