Why Do Newbuilds Suck?

[SarahBell]

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Shepherds+Walk,Bradley+Stoke&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=17.623121,39.331055&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Shepherds+Walk,+Bradley+Stoke,+Bristol,+Avon+BS32,+United+Kingdom&ll=51.535418,-2.552047&spn=0,0.019205&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=51.535363,-2.551927&panoid=0e9-oYo8bYtYKut2Lg02iA&cbp=12,86.54,,0,0.1

Someone's posted this link on MSE.

It's a pretty crowded new build estate.

My initial thoughts are - where on earth do the kids play? There's one patch of green there for god knows how many homes.

And is this the sort of nightmare place that the firstbuy scheme will be for?

[Beggar Thy Children]

Kids? Not a problem, nobody can afford to have any after maxing out to buy one of these places.

[Bloo Loo]

http://maps.google.c...12,86.54,,0,0.1

Someone's posted this link on MSE.

It's a pretty crowded new build estate.

My initial thoughts are - where on earth do the kids play? There's one patch of green there for god knows how many homes.

And is this the sort of nightmare place that the firstbuy scheme will be for?

All the newbuilds estates round here are like that...they look OKish until the people move in...then, with two or three cars a family, the place becomes a car filled nightmare...kids?..they arent allowed out.

Went to look at a couple of rentals on these estates a couple of years ago....nowhere to park...no storage inside, garden overlooked by yer 3 story townhouses on all sides.

[JustAnotherProle]

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Shepherds+Walk,Bradley+Stoke&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=17.623121,39.331055&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Shepherds+Walk,+Bradley+Stoke,+Bristol,+Avon+BS32,+United+Kingdom&ll=51.535418,-2.552047&spn=0,0.019205&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=51.535363,-2.551927&panoid=0e9-oYo8bYtYKut2Lg02iA&cbp=12,86.54,,0,0.1

Someone's posted this link on MSE.

It's a pretty crowded new build estate.

My initial thoughts are - where on earth do the kids play? There's one patch of green there for god knows how many homes.

And is this the sort of nightmare place that the firstbuy scheme will be for?

Kids? Playing? Do you think that these boxes are going to be lived in by people who can afford to have children? Even if they did they will never be allowed to roam free like you and I did as kids, too many dangers around for that, dont you read the news?

[exiges]

All the newbuilds estates round here are like that...they look OKish until the people move in...then, with two or three cars a family, the place becomes a car filled nightmare..

Agreed, I've noticed now that gardens have been squeezed as much as possible builders are now turning to squeezing roads to breaking point. It's almost like a housing estate designed for before cars were invented. That google streetmap image made me feel claustrophobic just looking at it.

[efdemin]

This seems to be the style used in Bristol a lot - I know someone who has bought on a similar but slightly older estate.

Basically they come along and flatten a load of old terraces / semis and have to build high-density housing to replace it. So blame the government / local council as much as the developers.

FWIW though the kids seem to just play on the street. You can see that the roads are not tarmacked, they're just bricked and there are loads of traffic calming measures. It is next to impossible to drive carelessly without risking your car more than a pedestrian.

Most of Bristol, even the desirable parts like Clifton etc. are so tightly packed it's hard to imagine living there. Lovely old terraces, often converted into flats, but there are no parking spaces!

[stuckmojo]

Two reasons, for me:

First, land prices are far too high, and planning laws only make this situation worse.

Second, and that's linked to the first, new houses are exclusively built by companies to the lowest possible standard, since they have to outbid each other on the purchase of the land. An individual has absolutely no chance to buy a piece of land in a good area and arrange to build his house, to the standards and design he wants.

It's ridiculous.

[PrivateerMk2]

My grandfather was a joiner and, at the end of his career, spent some time in the employ of a big housebuilding firm. He used to complain bitterly about the corner-cutting and sub-standard materials. He reckoned those buildings were unsafe and would stay up for maybe forty years at most if properly maintained, a lot less if not. That was twenty years ago; I very much doubt the situation has improved.

[SaintJay]

they've spent so much on the land, they have to cram them in and cut as many corners as possible to turn a profit.

[dom]

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Shepherds+Walk,Bradley+Stoke&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=17.623121,39.331055&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Shepherds+Walk,+Bradley+Stoke,+Bristol,+Avon+BS32,+United+Kingdom&ll=51.535418,-2.552047&spn=0,0.019205&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=51.535363,-2.551927&panoid=0e9-oYo8bYtYKut2Lg02iA&cbp=12,86.54,,0,0.1

Someone's posted this link on MSE.

It's a pretty crowded new build estate.

My initial thoughts are - where on earth do the kids play? There's one patch of green there for god knows how many homes.

And is this the sort of nightmare place that the firstbuy scheme will be for?

They're made from paper, sawdust and glue, with plenty of low density toxic, non biodegradable insulation. In short, they're $hit!

[Bloo Loo]

They're made from paper, sawdust and glue, with plenty of low density toxic, non biodegradable insulation. In short, they're $hit!

yeah, but, on the plus side, the government will lend you 5% to buy one.

[porca misèria]

Uk since 1945: "We need low-cost housing". Historically we've seen a new generation of dreary estates about once a decade.

Every british builder has grown up in a culture of crap. Only those who've worked abroad stand a chance of having been exposed to quality.

[Gone baby gone]

Q: Why do new builds suck?

A: Because they are built primarily for the convenience and maximum profit of the builder.

[Van]

You will generally pay a high price per sq/ft if buying a newbuild. The builders will build the rabbit hutches as small as they can get away with, as it's a question of simple profit for them - manage to 40 flats onto the same plot instead of 30 flats and you'll make more money.

In my experience most newbuilds are nicely laid out, but are very poor in terms of storage space simply because of the reduced floorspace.

[Dames]

Q: Why do new builds suck?

A: <B>Because they are built primarily for the convenience and maximum profit of the builder.</B>

Nail on head , or in a lot of cases on new build sites these days , gripfill on head

D :0)

[profitofdoom]

Quite simply it's Planning Policy. It's drafted by senior council officials who live in posh houses who artificially restrict the amount of development land allowed.Consequently houses per acre have risen inexorably to the point where new estates have them crammed in at something like 18 per acre.

The rationale is this.The landowners (Farmers usually) become multi millionaires,likewise the developers.The planners keep drawing their massive salaries and pensions and the workers get a roof,of sorts,over their heads on a sink estate.Densities should be no more than 8 per acre and land should be allocated and the owners compensated at agricultural land market rates plus a bit.

Edited March 28, 2011 by profitofdoom

[Bloo Loo]

very popular though, arent they...well.no, they need a 5% discount from the builder ( repayable over 25 years(IO)) and a 5% discount from the government (repayable over 25 years (IO)) to shift.

[swissy_fit]

Q: Why do new builds suck?

A: Because they are built primarily for the convenience and maximum profit of the builder.

And no legislation exists in the UK to prevent this, the construction lobby have been ripping off the public for generations now.

[GinAndPlatonic]

Up until recently car parking space was limited by law. (came into force a few years back) Supposedly to make the use of cars unattractive

Those laws have now been discarded....

[TheCountOfNowhere]

Some new builds are better than others. A friend and me coincidentally bought a new build hosue about 12 years ago. I had a persimmon one and he bought a Bloor one.

The design and quality of the Bloor home was much much much better than the persimmon one. Everything was thought out better and even though it was smaller than min, it felt bigger. I had all sorts of problems with the house and with Persimmon. Several other people on the estate had problems too.

[pablopatito]

So are builders or the state to blame? I was under the impression that in this country the state strictly controls what is built, when it is built, and how much room it takes up. Builders can't squeeze as many houses as they want into a development without the state giving permission. Similarly the state is reponsible for setting and enforcing building regulations to ensure houses are of acceptable quality.

Someone by us has allowed an estate full of *five* bedroom townhouses with *one* allocated car parking space and limited or no street parking. This was an estate sponsored by Prince Charles, who I presume doesn't have to worry too much about parking his car. It looked lovely until people started living there.

It must all be the government's fault, surely?

[fadeaway]

All the newbuilds estates round here are like that...they look OKish until the people move in...then, with two or three cars a family, the place becomes a car filled nightmare...kids?..they arent allowed out.

Went to look at a couple of rentals on these estates a couple of years ago....nowhere to park...no storage inside, garden overlooked by yer 3 story townhouses on all sides.

Round here you get 1-2 allocated driveways per house and if you park on the road you get a ticket (assuming someone reports you or you're unlucky enough to get the weekly community officer walking round).

And that's on a sort of cul-de-sac! (One entrance one exit, so you only ever come in if you live there). There are a few allocated visitor spots for the 50 or so houses on the street.

[Captain Cavey]

I once had a look around a new build show house. All the usual tricks employed to make it look bigger & homely: - small furniture & beds, heating on full blast, cuddly toys in the nursery, sticks in vases, no internal doors installed (some rooms were so small you’d probably have to stand on the bed to open the door if it was there).

The house boasted full compliance to the insulation regulations, so I was surprised to feel a breeze when standing at the closed double glazed windows. All was revealed by looking under the window sill to see a 2cm gap all the way through the outside. Obviously the snag repair team hadn’t got around to stuffing in some rolled up copies of The Sun yet.

[profitofdoom]

So are builders or the state to blame? I was under the impression that in this country the state strictly controls what is built, when it is built, and how much room it takes up. Builders can't squeeze as many houses as they want into a development without the state giving permission. Similarly the state is reponsible for setting and enforcing building regulations to ensure houses are of acceptable quality.

Someone by us has allowed an estate full of *five* bedroom townhouses with *one* allocated car parking space and limited or no street parking. This was an estate sponsored by Prince Charles, who I presume doesn't have to worry too much about parking his car. It looked lovely until people started living there.

It must all be the government's fault, surely?

Well,ultimately yes.I was a District Councillor for 14 years and I was appalled at planning policy.I once sat on a committee where an application for a new house in a small village was encouraged because "The applicant makes a big contribution to the community"

I pointed out that an identical application had been refused just up the road and it became obvious that the applicant here was not popular.You can't decide things on that basis. In point of fact they did,I voted against.On another occasion a Planning Officer working for the council was given permission for a cottage in a Conservation Area despite the plot being miniscule,again I voted against.

Edited March 28, 2011 by profitofdoom

[Brian Potter]

As someone who works in the industry and also lives in a new build - I would comment as follows:

I said I would never live in a new build but was suckered into it by the very nice setting that the new build occupies.

The quality is pretty woeful. I should have listened to myself.

The problem is (as I perceive it from an industry point of view) that :

1. Developers are over paying for land so only apartments stack up financially . If they are houses are very tighly packed. This is the problem many bankrupt developers (or more realistically, Banks) in places like Manchester have found themselves. The typical new build flat has, by and large 20-25% mark up on build costs. Once the developer has laid a brick, if he has finance via the banks, he starts to pay interest which gradually erodes this profit margin.

If the apartments are unsold for any length of time this margin may disappear altogether. The developer does not make a penny until the bank is discharged.

I know of at least 6 schemes in the north-west where the bank has foreclosed on the developer. Interestingly, most of these were financed by BOI, Allied Irish, Anglo Irish.

These are still unsold and are falling in value by the day.

There are many developers (and Banks) in this position. The point I make is that if prices drop much more most are in a loss position unless they are cash rich.

2. The Building Regulations are upgraded every year to force developers to be greener, safer, warmer etc etc. This is all well and good but the red tape generated adds costs with out necessarily a corresponding rise in quality.

3. The standards of workmanship have dropped througfh the floor in the recent decades. 'Tradesmen' are only paid on quantity. Pride in the job is rare and the industry as a whole is incredibly mercenary. A brick layer may earn £1500 a week in really good times but is lucky to pick up half that now even if he is working. The developers don't care - so why should the work force. Appreticeships are few and far between and are not to the standard of 30 years ago.

4. Buyers really don't know what they are looking at when they look at a new build. If in doubt take someone who knows to snag it out.

New builds are by and large pretty crap.