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So, what happens if you try and paper over the cracks of too much control freakery with a little more control freakery?

Why, that pesky reality thing I've heard so much about steps up and finds a way.

http://www.techworld.com.au/article/380396/google_releases_open_source_bitcoin_client/

A Google engineer has released an open source Java client for the Bitcoin peer-to-peer currency system, simply called BitcoinJ.

Bitcoin is an Internet currency that uses a P2P architecture for processing transactions avoiding the need for a central bank or payment system.

The BitcoinJ client is available under the Apache 2 license at Google’s code repository: http://code.google.com/p/bitcoinj/

Bitcoin community member with the avatar “mike” made the announcement earlier this month, stating BitcoinJ is not an “official” Google project, but something developed in the 20 per cent of time Google allows its staff to spend on personal projects.

Commenting on the release, Gavin Andresen, technical lead for the Bitcoin project, said BitcoinJ is exciting because Google is a “big, trusted brand name”.

“I think Bitcoin support in many of their products would make perfect sense,” he said.

BitcoinJ implements the native Bitcoin P2P protocol, which allows it to maintain a wallet and send and receive transactions without needing a local copy of the official implementation.

Read the full interview with Bitcoin technical lead, Gavin Andresen.

The project aims to be easier to understand than the C++ implementation, and be suitable for usage on constrained devices such as mobile phones.

Indeed, some of the software “mike” used to develop BitcoinJ was renamed to avoid conflicts on Android.

BitcoinJ implements the "simplified payment verification" mode so it stores what it needs in order to verify transactions with the aid of an untrusted peer node.

Andresen said Google is more likely to adopt Bitcoin if the company has an in-house implementation of the client software like BitcoinJ.

“And a second implementation of Bitcoin is very good for network diversity and robustness,” he said.

Central reserve banking - 1913-2011, RIP.

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So, what happens if you try and paper over the cracks of too much control freakery with a little more control freakery?

Why, that pesky reality thing I've heard so much about steps up and finds a way.

http://www.techworld.com.au/article/380396/google_releases_open_source_bitcoin_client/

Central reserve banking - 1913-2011, RIP.

Sadly, bitcoins failed the "Injin test."

:lol:

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They may have the ability to do so, but do they have the permission from those that will insist on it ?

No one insists upon it.

Bitcoiners will have to change their bitcoins into another form of money in order to pay their taxes, licences and fines though, just like everyone else.

Edit : While I am on, I will also point out why bitcoins will fail - evidence procedure.

Edited by Injin

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Unrelated.

The mistakes made by the founder of the Liberty Dollar were the use of the word Dollar and the symbol $.

The Bitcoin founder has made no such mistakes.

No one can claim it is undermining any one particular existing fiat currency, any more than the trading of / payment for goods or services using, gold or any other physical commodity does.

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No one insists upon it.

Bitcoiners will have to change their bitcoins into another form of money in order to pay their taxes, licences and fines though, just like everyone else.

Edit : While I am on, I will also point out why bitcoins will fail - evidence procedure.

Can you elaborate on the term "evidence procedure" ? I've been following and using Bitcoins for a long time - it would be interesting to hear the views of members from here on the technology, concept, economics etc ...

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Can you elaborate on the term "evidence procedure" ? I've been following and using Bitcoins for a long time - it would be interesting to hear the views of members from here on the technology, concept, economics etc ...

I am Bob, the shopkeeper.

There is a problem with the bitcoins.

How do I resolve it?

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No one can claim it is undermining any one particular existing fiat currency, any more than the trading of / payment for goods or services using, gold or any other physical commodity does.

It would not surprise me if someone in the corridors of power did make such a claim (assuming of course that permission has not been granted).

US code Title 18 chapter 25 may be worth a look. How could section 486 be (mis)construed ?

Whoever, except as authorized by law, makes or utters or passes, or attempts to utter or pass, any coins of gold or silver or other metal, or alloys of metals, intended for use as current money, whether in the resemblance of coins of the United States or of foreign countries, or of original design, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.

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It would not surprise me if someone in the corridors of power did make such a claim (assuming of course that permission has not been granted).

US code Title 18 chapter 25 may be worth a look. How could section 486 be (mis)construed ?

Yes, but erm how would they know?

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Quite, but I do not think they would need to.

How do you stop something you don't know is happening between two people you don't know, somewhere over phone/broadband lines or via some wireless technology?

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What's the "problem" ?

I don't know what the original poster meant, but a rather fundamental problem is that bitcoins can be double-spent by anyone with access to sufficient resources. While this might require more computing power than the rest of the network combined, that is not the same as it being infeasible. In other words, we know it's possible to efficiently stop people counterfeiting the usual sort of currency but we don't really understand how difficult it is to spend fake bitcoins. However, we do know that if it is possible at all, there is a good chance it will also be possible on the sort of scale that would render the currency worthless close to instantaneously. Another problem is that people might not want to accept bitcoins. The usual currencies are useful for paying fines and taxes, but no-one specifically needs bitcoins, and anyone can start bitcoin2 if they care. However, at this time it is possible to buy useful things with bitcoins and they have a market value. I am puzzled as to what the counterparty/ies selling e.g. Amazon vouchers for bitcoins want them for. Just to be clear, I am not saying it is not possible to give intrinsic value to an electronic currency, just that I don't see that bitcoins have any.

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How do you stop something you don't know is happening between two people you don't know, somewhere over phone/broadband lines or via some wireless technology?

Play your money laundering trump card.

Unlicensed facilitation of money transmission. *

(* assuming, as before, that permission has not been granted)

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Play your money laundering trump card.

Unlicensed facilitation of money transmission. *

(* assuming, as before, that permission has not been granted)

Sure, but how do you know anyone has done it even if unlicensed?

Bitcoins are the financial equivalent of the perfect murder. There is no body to find.

There is also no law against people making their own money (yet.) I understand you think it's highly likely one will be brought in but at present there isn't one.

Alternative unreal and fiat systems appearing from sources other than the french treasury was a feature of the french experiment in fiat money way back, to me it looks like bitcoins are the modern equivalent. After all, a virtually free to produce money where you control the supply is highly profitable - easy to see why everyone wants this power for themselves.

Edited by Injin

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Sure, but how do you know anyone has done it even if unlicensed?

Bitcoins are the financial equivalent of the perfect murder. There is no body to find.

There is also no law against people making their own money (yet.) I understand you think it's highly likely one will be brought in but at present there isn't one.

Alternative unreal and fiat systems appearing from sources other than the french treasury was a feature of the french experiment in fiat money way back, to me it looks like bitcoins are the modern equivalent. After all, a virtually free to produce money where you control the supply is highly profitable - easy to see why everyone wants this power for themselves.

The word "facilitation" is the important one in the ever expanding money laundering laws (and quite a recent addition to them).

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The inland Revenue even assesses barter arrangements that involve no exchange of money in order to determine their value for taxation purposes.

So I can't see how a two-bit coin system will avoid things like VAT, purchase and income taxes.

I think it's due to the tracability, or rather lack thereof.

I can buy a mop and bucket off someone else using bitcoins and only we will know about the transaction. Literally virtual cash, everyone is their own bank etc

Taxes would still be there, but it'd be stuff like council tax - they could only tax you on stuff that doesn't move much. This should shunt more people towards bitcoins.

The only problem with them is the need to defer to an expert in case of difficulty - which will lead to piss taking from that authority that will crash the system.

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The word "facilitation" is the important one in the ever expanding money laundering laws (and quite a recent addition to them).

I'm sure it is.

But again - how do you prosecute a crime you do not and in fact almost cannot know has occured?

Lets say monopoly money becomes illegal - but I've still got an old game knocking around and me and my family play a round or two. How the hell would anyone in authority know so they could tax/forbid/punish each transaction?

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I'm sure it is.

But again - how do you prosecute a crime you do not and in fact almost cannot know has occured?

Lets say monopoly money becomes illegal - but I've still got an old game knocking around and me and my family play a round or two. How the hell would anyone in authority know so they could tax/forbid/punish each transaction?

That analogy does not seem appropriate to me.

The crime would be (indeed, is) the provision of the service (to the general public).

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  • 311 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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