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Realistbear

Economic Bombshell Dropped On Diesel Cars

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/8407964/Parking-permit-surcharge-to-force-diesel-cars-off-the-roads.html

Parking permit surcharge to force diesel cars off the roads
Owners of diesel cars face higher charges for annual parking permits in major cities amid growing concern over their effect on air quality.
There is growing concern in Whitehall over the green credentials of diesel vehicles, which are increasingly popular..../
According to a paper prepared for the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs this month, they emit too many small polluting particles which damage local air quality, a particular problem in residential areas with heavy traffic.
The report said the Government should encourage “small, modern petrol vehicles, petrol hybrids and electric vehicles in urban areas in place of diesel vehicles”.

So what they going to do about all those low taxbands for oil burning polluters?

I was told about this over a year ago by soeone I know well in the industry and they are big into making turbochargers for small petrol engines in anticpation of the big switch that will be coming soon.

Check out VW and AUdi and their 1.4TSI units--huge meileage and better performance than diesels. I do not own a diesel meself and am feeling even more smug than ever!

This is going to cost a lot of folks a lot of money.

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No shit sherlock, you arbitarily load the tax system to favour car that produce less CO2 whilst ignoring all the other nasty shit they emit then wonder why air quality is affected. ******wittery of the highest order.

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Horsesh*t - If you don't pay for a parking permit it won't cost you anything.

Next....

Car parking is just the beginning. Watch the tax bands start to chnage and trade-in values drop. Notice the spread between diesel and petrol growing lately? This is huge for the auto industry and the big corporates knew it was coming a few years ago as they begin gearing up for the end of diesel.

RIP diesel:

http://www.ukipme.com/engineoftheyear/winners_09/winner.html

Celebrate Jezzer Clarkson petrol head extraordinaire. :D

Anyone who just bought a diesel are going to be very sick parrots.

Edited by Realistbear

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/8407964/Parking-permit-surcharge-to-force-diesel-cars-off-the-roads.html

Parking permit surcharge to force diesel cars off the roads
Owners of diesel cars face higher charges for annual parking permits in major cities amid growing concern over their effect on air quality.
There is growing concern in Whitehall over the green credentials of diesel vehicles, which are increasingly popular..../
According to a paper prepared for the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs this month, they emit too many small polluting particles which damage local air quality, a particular problem in residential areas with heavy traffic.
The report said the Government should encourage “small, modern petrol vehicles, petrol hybrids and electric vehicles in urban areas in place of diesel vehicles”.

So what they going to do about all those low taxbands for oil burning polluters?

I was told about this over a year ago by soeone I know well in the industry and they are big into making turbochargers for small petrol engines in anticpation of the big switch that will be coming soon.

Check out VW and AUdi and their 1.4TSI units--huge meileage and better performance than diesels. I do not own a diesel meself and am feeling even more smug than ever!

This is going to cost a lot of folks a lot of money.

Just wait until these TSi's hit the streets at 3+ years 60k+miles.They will have the guts knocked out by their high specific power output. It's always been the same,the more power you produce from a small unit the lower the life expectancy. A recon will be as expensive as the car is worth.

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Diesel is the only way to drop co2 emissions. Long distance driving is only low emission with diesel, electric can't deliver in this area. Around town is a different story but people need to have a long distance runner in the household.

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RB, I have enjoyed your posts over the years but this particular post just reeks of bile and nastiness.

It has nothing to do house prices.

There will be many HPCers who own a diesel car so you are having a go at them for no reason.

You appear to be increasingly rejoicing at the misfortune of others. You need to stop such a mindset as it is not healthy for yourself or for those around you.

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This is nothing to do with the environment, and it is not "the end" of diesel. It is all about tax.

The government needs to raise a certain amount of tax from motorists. So they start adding taxes based on CO2 emissions, and a load of people promptly go out and buy diesels, thus getting 20% off by putting their car (same size and value car) in a lower band. So they simply add a new tax so redress the balance.

If loads of people went and bought electric cars, there would be a battery tax or national grid tax stuck on pretty quickly.

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No shit sherlock, you arbitarily load the tax system to favour car that produce less CO2 whilst ignoring all the other nasty shit they emit then wonder why air quality is affected. ******wittery of the highest order.

Exactly, Co2 is a fair worse pollutant than the particulates in diesel emissions :blink:

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This is nothing to do with the environment, and it is not "the end" of diesel. It is all about tax.

The government needs to raise a certain amount of tax from motorists. So they start adding taxes based on CO2 emissions, and a load of people promptly go out and buy diesels, thus getting 20% off by putting their car (same size and value car) in a lower band. So they simply add a new tax so redress the balance.

If loads of people went and bought electric cars, there would be a battery tax or national grid tax stuck on pretty quickly.

Exactly. When the French were faced with no indigenous fuel supply, they took two decisions. Nuclear, and low tax diesel to encourage it's use. Here, when diesel cars became popular, they taxed the fuel more to maintain revenue, and decided to "dash for gas". Now we're faced with more tax on diesel to jack up the revenue, and importing gas from Russia and the volatile Middle-East.

(Not that I'm comfortable with nuclear, witness japan)

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/8407964/Parking-permit-surcharge-to-force-diesel-cars-off-the-roads.html

Parking permit surcharge to force diesel cars off the roads
Owners of diesel cars face higher charges for annual parking permits in major cities amid growing concern over their effect on air quality.
There is growing concern in Whitehall over the green credentials of diesel vehicles, which are increasingly popular..../
According to a paper prepared for the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs this month, they emit too many small polluting particles which damage local air quality, a particular problem in residential areas with heavy traffic.
The report said the Government should encourage “small, modern petrol vehicles, petrol hybrids and electric vehicles in urban areas in place of diesel vehicles”.

So what they going to do about all those low taxbands for oil burning polluters?

I was told about this over a year ago by soeone I know well in the industry and they are big into making turbochargers for small petrol engines in anticpation of the big switch that will be coming soon.

Check out VW and AUdi and their 1.4TSI units--huge meileage and better performance than diesels. I do not own a diesel meself and am feeling even more smug than ever!

This is going to cost a lot of folks a lot of money.

Diesels are becoming too economical from an mpg point of view and thus the revenue from diesel is dropping as more and more folks switch and we cant have that so lets tax the f_ckers some more

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Diesels are becoming too economical from an mpg point of view and thus the revenue from diesel is dropping as more and more folks switch and we cant have that so lets tax the f_ckers some more

I run a diesel myself but you have to look at the overall running costs.Peugeot do an additive system with a separate tank that costs about £200 to refill and can only be done by the dealership.It needs doing about every 50k miles and if the owner pus it off it can damage the pump and athe catalytic converter.we recently had a customer who had done 54,000 miles and it cost £1700 to fix.

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Diesels are becoming too economical from an mpg point of view and thus the revenue from diesel is dropping as more and more folks switch and we cant have that so lets tax the f_ckers some more

Yep, well said - I think this is probably more likely. Many, many diesel car owners are switching to biodiesel - You are allowed to use up to 2500 litres of untaxed biodiesel per year.

Heating (part-taxed) biodiesel is not dyed so not illegal - and identical in composition to "official, taxed" biodiesel. Most diesel owners in the company I work for are now buying heating biodiesel from a local biodiesel company (in Hampshire) for 90p per litre.

Because it is properly processed it does not damage engines - in fact, my car (53 reg) is running better than ever.

Huge saving for drivers but big tax loss for govt.

Biodiesel is less polluting than conventional diesel in terms of NOx, SOx & particulates. If they were really worried about diesel pollution they would be pushing biodiesel as an alternative fuel... Says it all, really.

Edit: Oops - does not reduce NOx but does reduce SOx, particulates and CO.

Edited by FedupTeddiBear

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RB, I have enjoyed your posts over the years but this particular post just reeks of bile and nastiness.

He's a bitter man - he missed the HPI boat, and now he's missed the diesel boat too! :lol:

Ever since they made diesel more expensive than petrol it's always been a questionable benefit for private car owners.

For company car owners buying a diesel is a no-brainer due to the benefit-in-kind being based on CO2 emissions, however if they change the tax landscape the company car owners are the quickest to adjust as they usually replace their cars on a 24/36 month cycle.

Incidentally, most modern diesels are fitted with particulate filters to address the air quality problem ;)

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Just wait until these TSi's hit the streets at 3+ years 60k+miles.They will have the guts knocked out by their high specific power output. It's always been the same,the more power you produce from a small unit the lower the life expectancy. A recon will be as expensive as the car is worth.

Planned Obsolescence / built to break

Easy way to deal with low sales. Deliberately market a car that will have a short lifespan, reducing the used car market, forcing more people to buy new.

The average diesel engine is still going strong after 150K+ miles - they hang around on the roads for too long, reducing new car sales.

So much for environmental interests - I suppose disposing of a greater number of clapped out little petrol cars will do wonders for the environment in contrast to the damage caused by those nasty diesels (especially those horrid ones with fitted particulate filters / that run on biodiesel).

Oh - another thought. As this country relies very heavily on road transport for goods - most large transport vehicles and buses run on diesel and are probably the source of the vast majority of diesel pollution. RB, where would they fit in? If you tax these vehicles heavily it will lead to increased costs of goods (as increasing diesel prices are doing at the moment)

Edited by FedupTeddiBear

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RB, I have enjoyed your posts over the years but this particular post just reeks of bile and nastiness.

It has nothing to do house prices.

There will be many HPCers who own a diesel car so you are having a go at them for no reason.

You appear to be increasingly rejoicing at the misfortune of others. You need to stop such a mindset as it is not healthy for yourself or for those around you.

Go easy on him TMT, he's given a lot of us some excellent laughs over the years. Most of it mocking admittedly, but laughs all the same :lol:

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Yep, well said - I think this is probably more likely. Many, many diesel car owners are switching to biodiesel - You are allowed to use up to 2500 litres of untaxed biodiesel per year.

Heating (part-taxed) biodiesel is not dyed so not illegal - and identical in composition to "official, taxed" biodiesel. Most diesel owners in the company I work for are now buying heating biodiesel from a local biodiesel company (in Hampshire) for 90p per litre.

Because it is properly processed it does not damage engines - in fact, my car (53 reg) is running better than ever.

Huge saving for drivers but big tax loss for govt.

Biodiesel is less polluting than conventional diesel in terms of NOx, SOx & particulates. If they were really worried about diesel pollution they would be pushing biodiesel as an alternative fuel... Says it all, really.

Edit: Oops - does not reduce NOx but does reduce SOx, particulates and CO.

Don't worry soon they'll tax biodiesel the ever consuming state demands feeding.

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Can I just say, I hate diesels because they sound like tractors and they are all smokey.

Someone said once that the particulates cause cancer so that's that then.

It must be true ;)

Anyway, just saying.

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It's just an offshoot of the "global warming" method so beloved in the UK taxocracy.

Hunt-a-tax, somewhere anywhere. It's all the jobsworths do. The £billions of bankers dodgy bonuses and MPs dodgy expenses rely on it.

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In the immediate short term, this is a parking issue. If councils are going to adopt a motorist-milking policy focused on roadside parking, I can see one result being downward pressure on the price of homes that do not have off-street parking (either a drive or a garage) and upward pressure on those that do. I was recently given a parking ticket when visiting a relative in a south London suburb, because when she bought a load of visitors' permits, the council cocked up and sent her permits for the wrong street parking zone. I am currently appealing against the ticket (not heard anything yet), but she has already been refused a refund for the £45-worth of unused tickets that can only be used in spaces nearly three miles away from her home (she was given zone 10 instead of zone 1), on the grounds that it was up to her to check within seven days and report any problem. The end result of all this is that I will be visiting her a lot less in future - I'd rather buy an air ticket (and I mean air, not rail, just to spite the greenie fascists!) for her to come and see me rather than pay any more money that goes to that council, even indirectly through the business rates of local traders. However, the poor feckers who actually live there and need to run a car don't have a choice. The price of residents' permits in York was jacked up massively for the second vehicle per household in 2003, and the short term result was a significant increase in the price of houses and flats that had off-street parking. If this becomes a sustained trend I can see not having parking becoming a significant and well-known blight on the price of property.

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RB, I have enjoyed your posts over the years but this particular post just reeks of bile and nastiness.

It has nothing to do house prices.

There will be many HPCers who own a diesel car so you are having a go at them for no reason.

You appear to be increasingly rejoicing at the misfortune of others. You need to stop such a mindset as it is not healthy for yourself or for those around you.

Write a letter to the Telegraph if you don't like the story, as they are the ones who published it.

I am good friends with a retired Professor of Chemistry at Sussex U who worked on diesel and the effects of particulates in the human body. They are highly toxic and cause cancer.* Now how about thinking about people's health for a change and the terrible disease that is caused by toxic fumes such as diesel? The stench from diesel in our towns is overpowering sometimes and even if the C02 is lower the damage done by particulates so small that they get into the lung tissue is a serious matter.

IMO, we would be better of without diesel. Petrol engines can also get very similar mileage as diesels and without the risks to health. To complain about those who are blowing the whistle on diesel is not a healthy thing to do at all.

________________________

* The particle size distribution of diesel exhaust is bi-modal with a

nuclei mode (0.0075 to 0.042 μm in diameter) and an accumulation

mode (0.042 to 1.0 μm in diameter) (Baumgard and Johnson 1996),

most of which occur in aerodynamic diameters ranging from 0.1 to

0.25 μm in diameter (Groblicki and Begeman 1979, Dolan et al. 1980,

NRC 1982, Williams 1982). Approximately 98% of the particles

emitted from diesel engines are less than 10 microns in diameter, 94%

less than 2.5 microns in diameter, and 92% less than 1.0 microns in

diameter (ARB 1997).

http://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/ntp/roc/eleventh/profiles/s069dies.pdf

Edited by Realistbear

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Write a letter to the Telegraph if you don't like the story, as they are the ones who published it.

I am good friends with a retired Professor of Chemistry at Sussex U who worked on diesel and the effects of particulates in the human body. They are highly toxic and cause cancer.* Now how about thinking about people's health for a change and the terrible disease that is caused by toxic fumes such as diesel? The stench from diesel in our towns is overpowering sometimes and even if the C02 is lower the damage done by particulates so small that they get into the lung tissue is a serious matter.

IMO, we would be better of without diesel. Petrol engines can also get very similar mileage as diesels and without the risks to health. To complain about those who are blowing the whistle on diesel is not a healthy thing to do at all.

As it is the goods and public transport vehicles that pump out most of the diesel fumes - buses, black cabs, trains etc. (the stench at Paddington station is unbearable) surely THAT is where they need to start making the changes, not by fleecing the less well-off members of the public for parking charges (those who can afford it have private off-street parking). There are loads of large diesel-powered lorries driving around in the cities - for those who argue that that they are mostly found travelling long distances.

Smaller modern diesel car engines are far less polluting than the monstrosities that produce 99.999% of the fumes.

I can't believe that you are unable to see through this ruse.

Furthermore: Petrol also produces particulates - the trouble with these is that they are far smaller than those of diesel which means that they can penetrate deeper into the lung.

The lungs are able to expel larger particles but as they may not be able to deal with sub micron petrol particulates these have the potential to cause even more harm. Diesel particulate filters are able to filter out 80% or more of particulates - it is more difficult to filter out smaller petrol particulates.

And - back to biodiesel, this emits less than 40% of the particulates that diesel emits and is low in carcinogens..

Diesel cars with particulate filters often have LOWER particulate emissions that petrol engines.

Has your friend compared the toxicity of petrol and diesel particulates? As both fuels are derived from a similar chemical source, I would have thought they would have similar toxic effects. Petrol is made up of smaller molecules but also hydrocarbons (hence smaller particulates?) and is further refined than diesel. Would this make a difference?

Benzene is an additive used extensively in petrol to reduce knocking. This is a very, very well known carcinogen.

Every time you fill up with petrol you inhale benzene vapour.

As cetane rating rather than octane rating applies to diesel - no benzene needed. Diesel engines also produce almost zero carbon monoxide.

As far as I can see there is no reason to believe that using diesel is any worse for health than petrol engines.

If anything, it appears to me that using petrol may be more harmful (especially if all diesel cars were to be fitted with particulate filters).

Yes, indeed, we need to seriously consider health effects.

Conclusion - this is all about excuses for raising taxes and supporting the motor industry (Planned obsolescence)

Editing to re-organise

Edited by FedupTeddiBear

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  • 284 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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