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Is Milliband's 'anti Cuts' Rhetoric Doing Him Any Favours?


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And I have to add that the thickest voters I have encountered are working class Tories. Have you ever asked your local Tory voting labourer why he votes that way. The answer normally sounds like a mish mash of Sun and Daily Mail/Express headlines.

One friend of mine could only come up with "They made my dad a home owner for the first time in his life" (via a council house sell off).

When I pointed out that his dad still lived in the same house, the house that a Labour council had provided for him for decades at a cut price rent, he did not see that as an equally good reason to vote Labour. I also pointed out that my dad paid full price with a mortgage for all of our houses and never needed a cheap ride for twenty years followed by a gift/bribe to own a house. Seeing as his dad had always worked in a decent paying job I felt the need to point out that it was his dads choice to take the cheap option. If he suffered some stigma from growing up on a council estate he needed to place the blame at the correct door. That went down like a lead balloon. :lol:

Another friend told me that she voted Tory because all the election posters on the duff estate she lived on were Labour but up the road in the posh area they were all Tory. Her childhood problems and unthinking aspirations to be like the folk up the road set an unbreakable lock on all her future votes.

To an extent I do agree that a large percentage of the electorate who bother to vote expend no more thought on a visit to the polling station than I do on a visit to the loo. However, I am almost certain that the largest beneficiaries of this are the Tories. If most people right up to so called middle England level properly assessed the Tories they wouldn't even come third.

I'm still trying to work out what the problem is?

Your mate's Dad got the chance to buy a council house. Your Dad didn't.... ergo your mate and his father are both kunts. I guess if you're 12 years old and haven't yet learned that life isn't fair this could be a valid reason for supporting Labour... they built the house but didn't commit a class war crime by selling it to your mate's old man unlike those [email protected] Tories. The fact that your mate's old man got a financial advantage is more grist to the mill.

As for the other one... what can I say. A bright, intelligent woman who sees life on a council estate as something to be endured rather enjoyed.... how dare the bitch vote Tory... she's only done it because she believes the Conservatives will give her the best chance of getting the opportunities needed to join the ranks of the.... the... middle classes!!!!!! How dare she have ideas above her station? Buying a nice house in a nice area!!!! Giving her family a better standard of living!!!!!..... I'm left speechless by the sheer Brass neck of the woman.

I vote Tory because I can't stand vile, patronising lefties like you. All people irrespective of class deserve the chance to better themselves... it's a basic human right.

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I'm still trying to work out what the problem is?

Your mate's Dad got the chance to buy a council house. Your Dad didn't.... ergo your mate and his father are both kunts. I guess if you're 12 years old and haven't yet learned that life isn't fair this could be a valid reason for supporting Labour... they built the house but didn't commit a class war crime by selling it to your mate's old man unlike those [email protected] Tories. The fact that your mate's old man got a financial advantage is more grist to the mill.

As for the other one... what can I say. A bright, intelligent woman who sees life on a council estate as something to be endured rather enjoyed.... how dare the bitch vote Tory... she's only done it because she believes the Conservatives will give her the best chance of getting the opportunities needed to join the ranks of the.... the... middle classes!!!!!! How dare she have ideas above her station? Buying a nice house in a nice area!!!! Giving her family a better standard of living!!!!!..... I'm left speechless by the sheer Brass neck of the woman.

I vote Tory because I can't stand vile, patronising lefties like you. All people irrespective of class deserve the chance to better themselves... it's a basic human right.

And the main point of my posts to this thread is that the chance to "better themselves" has been drastically reduced between the time my father started work and today. During that time Conservatives have held power for longer than Labour even if you include Blair as Labour, which he quite obviously isn't.

Your interpretations of my views above show only that you have swallowed the Tory con trick hook line and sinker. If you think that's patronising that's because it's meant to be. :rolleyes:

Edit to add that you make a totally bogus connection between the right to better yourself and voting Conservative as a means to that end. Your sort would also almost certainly be against the whole idea of council houses in the first place but find it OK if the handout is buying another Tory vote.

Edited by Nickolarge
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I'd agree we don't protest enough but the unions got what they deserved - you've only got to look at the 70s to see what a mess they were making of the country.

Even now I see too many unions that are based on the ego and power thirst of their leaders rather than the needs of their members

Andy

Trade unions only ever held a degree of power in some highly visible large industries. As I have pointed out many times, if the unions were so strong why did Thatcher roll them over so easily. Only the Miners and Printers put up any kind of fight. The truth is that it was always weak management that was to blame and what Thatcher really did was give them the confidence to stand their ground.

Your second comment could equally be applied to 99% of politicians and most business leaders.

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No they don't. I'm not talking about if they are truthful in action, I'm talking about appearing to be truthful in getting elected. I'm not talking about having conviction, I am talking about appearing to have conviction. They were both elected, and that proves me right. Brown was never elected, and never would have been. You completey miss that point here. Anyone who think I am waving a flag for Blair or Cameron as men of substance misunderstands completely what I am talking about.

Fair enough, but that wasn't clear at all from your post. No offence, but you lived up to your signature.

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And the main point of my posts to this thread is that the chance to "better themselves" has been drastically reduced between the time my father started work and today. During that time Conservatives have held power for longer than Labour even if you include Blair as Labour, which he quite obviously isn't.

Your interpretations of my views above show only that you have swallowed the Tory con trick hook line and sinker. If you think that's patronising that's because it's meant to be. :rolleyes:

Edit to add that you make a totally bogus connection between the right to better yourself and voting Conservative as a means to that end. Your sort would also almost certainly be against the whole idea of council houses in the first place but find it OK if the handout is buying another Tory vote.

Chances to better themselves?

Which party (and its mainly privileged background ideologues) got rid of grammar schools?

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I have always seen the politics of the left as an attempt to make people as equal as possible without regard to the cost that the attempts impose on society.

I have always seen the politics of the right as a recognition that we are not equal and an attempt to appease the "less than equals" to ensure that the "more than equals" can maintain their privileges (be they earned, stolen or inherited).

Finally, I believe very strongly that anyone who actually believes that politics is about anything other than power for the politicians is somewhere between naive and misguided.

My support of a small state is based on the notion that it allows fewer opportunities for politicians to gain power at the expense of the people.

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....Red Ed was part of the team who destroyed the country and will continue to do so....he will lead a march tomorrow with anarchists setting the tone ...he looks and acts like Dobbin the Mule more and more every day.... :rolleyes:

I thought it was Muffin the Mule

or is he a Woodentop?

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Chances to better themselves?

Which party (and its mainly privileged background ideologues) got rid of grammar schools?

No party "got rid of grammar schools". They still exist here (where I live) and in Kent as well as many other parts of the country. And anyway, if they did go in some areas which party failed to reintroduce them? <_<

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I have always seen the politics of the left as an attempt to make people as equal as possible without regard to the cost that the attempts impose on society.

I have always seen the politics of the right as a recognition that we are not equal and an attempt to appease con the "less than equals" to ensure that the "more than equals" can maintain their privileges (be they earned, stolen or inherited).

Finally, I believe very strongly that anyone who actually believes that politics is about anything other than power for the politicians is somewhere between naive and misguided.

My support of a small state is based on the notion that it allows fewer opportunities for politicians to gain power at the expense of the people.

I've corrected that for you. ;)

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I've corrected that for you. ;)

You could also have said "bribe".

Enlightened self interest means that there has to be enough wealth sharing in a society that the poor don't take what they need to survive from the rich by force.

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Yes, that's basically it exactly. Sorry about your disability, but there really is a right answer.

The idea that economics and politics are just a matter of opinion, and that questions of poverty and inequality are somehow difficult, is the lie that keeps everyone voting for the same bunch of failures.

This has nothing at all to do with support for the 'cuts' though. Those are utterly irrelevant, if they even exist at all.

Economics is just the name given to a huge con trick that serves up 95% of the worlds wealth to less than 5% of the population. Politics is only a matter of opinion and absolutely nothing else. You are confusing politicians and their lies and actions with politics. They are not the same thing.

As for the "right answer", would you like to say exactly what it is? For that matter, could you also tell us what the question is?

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You could also have said "bribe".

Enlightened self interest means that there has to be enough wealth sharing in a society that the poor don't take what they need to survive from the rich by force.

When I was a child never having enough to eat the rich did not feed me, now I am well off I have no intention giving any to the poor. I was financially raped by the last Government and MPC and still continue to be financially raped with the Dave and Nick Show. I am proud which I have achieved since those bad days never earning one penny on the back of another man`s labour. ;)

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You could also have said "bribe".

Enlightened self interest means that there has to be enough wealth sharing in a society that the poor don't take what they need to survive from the rich by force.

I know it's a silly point but anybody who plays one of those computer "civilization" games quickly loses if they don't keep the population happy.

There also has to be enough so called wealth, confidence and desire to spend at the lower end of society in order for the consumption of goods and services to flow at the levels needed to keep the whole thing going. A nation of savers would go bust in very short order.

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You could also have said "bribe".

But in most cases it's not a bribe. It's the promise of a bribe which is never fully delivered or if it is it's taken back with the other hand.

No, I think con is definitely the correct term!

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Referring to the original message: might not be of quite as much relevance to the private sector worker.. but what is the ratio of private:public sector workers in the UK?

Private sector has already had swinging cuts - I find it sickening that the public sector think they can get away without any. Just as bad is that the 'workers' will get the sack rather than useless managers.

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No party "got rid of grammar schools". They still exist here (where I live) and in Kent as well as many other parts of the country. And anyway, if they did go in some areas which party failed to reintroduce them? <_<

Antony Crosland (lab) was the main architect of their demise

On 22 January 1965 Wilson appointed Crosland Secretary of State for Education and Science.

In her biography published in 1982, Susan Crosland claimed her husband had told her "If it's the last thing I do, I'm going to destroy every ******ing grammar school in England. And Wales and Northern Ireland"

(They're such lovely balanced people those left-wing types)

You live somewhere where you're not exposed to the outcomes of some of your party's most egregious policies - quelle surprise

The party that claims to represent the ideological right has been similarly woeful in its handling of the education system and you're correct it hasn't (nor is presently likely to) reintroduced them.

Can I take the opportunity though to apologise on behalf of Cameron and Osborne for not having already sorted out the fiscal woes bequeathed to them by the outgoing Labour government. Not having cleared up the mess in a timely fashion they have failed to meet their obligations to not only unthinking bitter leftists but also the country as a whole.

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Referring to the original message: might not be of quite as much relevance to the private sector worker.. but what is the ratio of private:public sector workers in the UK?

Private sector has already had swinging cuts - I find it sickening that the public sector think they can get away without any. Just as bad is that the 'workers' will get the sack rather than useless managers.

I find it sickening that folk can hold and spout forth such absurd views without any real knowledge of the subject. I know it's par for the course on this site but it's still crap.

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Antony Crosland (lab) was the main architect of their demise

(They're such lovely balanced people those left-wing types)

You live somewhere where you're not exposed to the outcomes of some of your party's most egregious policies - quelle surprise

The party that claims to represent the ideological right has been similarly woeful in its handling of the education system and you're correct it hasn't (nor is presently likely to) reintroduced them.

Can I take the opportunity though to apologise on behalf of Cameron and Osborne for not having already sorted out the fiscal woes bequeathed to them by the outgoing Labour government. Not having cleared up the mess in a timely fashion they have failed to meet their obligations to not only unthinking bitter leftists but also the country as a whole.

I'm finally fed up with trying to stay polite with the twats that dominate this forum.

You all fail to grasp one fundamental fact at the root of all the financial ups and downs that we are forced to bear.

Economics is run entirely by right wingers. If there is ever anything wrong with this country's or the world's economy it is always because the right wingers who run everything have screwed up yet again and usually it's because they tried to increase the already huge margin that they leech off the rest of us. That's it, pure and simple. Individual governments and even more so the few left wing ones trying to swim against the tide have a minimal effect and if you think otherwise you are a complete buffoon.

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Oh man... grow up.

It's you that needs to grow up. You spout crap about useless managers without any facts to back that up. You are slagging off peoples contribution to their employers and whoever they manage or serve and there is no way that you can have even the slightest idea about what those folk are actually doing. That makes you an idiot and an offensive one to boot.

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It's the ordinary people working at the filing cabinet manufacturers that I feel sorry for when the p45s start fluttering towards him and his colleagues. :lol:

And your comment reveals exactly what is wrong with nearly every post you have ever made. Firing off nonsense while not in possession of any facts.

I don't work for anyone. You wrongly presume I am a public sector worker. That's the problem with all you lot. You wrongly presume the basis for nearly all your beliefs. Never let any facts get in the way of your knee jerk reactions.

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