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Is Milliband's 'anti Cuts' Rhetoric Doing Him Any Favours?

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I see this as well. I think a lot of people are getting tired of the whole 'cuts' and 'austerity' rhetoric.

Most voters don't really want to discuss economics on a daily basis and this is possibly where Labour are failing. They are pushing the cuts spin so much that most outside of the core left are totally bored with the issue.

As such voters are somewhat turned off by the whole austerity discussion and not interested in discussing the cuts that they believe are innevitable and required. Therefore a government that gets on with the daily job and doesn't bother with daily discussion on the pros and cons of cutting or the rate of deficit reduction is quite likeable.

There you go again. We now have the attention span of a goldfish.

The only PR positive this government can rightly claim is that us thickies have fallen for the "Dave Cameron is quite a nice bloke" bullshine.

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You guys make me laugh.

On the one hand the great unwashed are too thick to do anything but but believe any lie they are told but on the other hand 58% support the cuts (and that is a measure of intelligence?). Ahh, hold on, they support the cuts but only because of some vague instinct at the back of their tiny minds! And of course they are far too thick to figure out why they have that niggling feeling.

It must be great to have an unblinking faith in the idea that you are 100% correct because you've mustered your massive intellect and had a good old think about economics and come up with the solution to Britain's woes.

Isn't it a pity that the rest of us thickies will never be able to grasp any of it <_<

As I said, most Labour voters are too thick to grasp it. Defining debt and the deficit is too much for most of these supporters. I guess a few are sharp enough to realise that they are getting a free ride off the tax payer and hence there is a reason to maintain the status quo gravy train.

The rest of the electorate seem to have an idea that running huge deficits, racking up debt and non-productive public sector binges are not the way to run the country , but most won't have read Rogoff & Reinhart and other authors to realise what the historical implications are.

My point is that the general electorate understand that Labour blew the budget year after year and therefore are less inclined to vote them back in even without totally realising the implications yet of the poverty that socialist governments create.

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What is the percentage of voters that were part of a bloated and wasteful public sector or on the benefits gravy train or given a british passport to free houses and money?

Is it any wonder that there is such support for labour and a reluctance to cut up the barclaycard?

Where, exactly was this "support" at the last election.

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As I said, most Labour voters are too thick to grasp it. Defining debt and the deficit is too much for most of these supporters. I guess a few are sharp enough to realise that they are getting a free ride off the tax payer and hence there is a reason to maintain the status quo gravy train.

The rest of the electorate seem to have an idea that running huge deficits, racking up debt and non-productive public sector binges are not the way to run the country , but most won't have read Rogoff & Reinhart and other authors to realise what the historical implications are.

My point is that the general electorate understand that Labour blew the budget year after year and therefore are less inclined to vote them back in even without totally realising the implications yet of the poverty that socialist governments create.

If these so called "experts" were penning such self evident truths there would be no argument and economies the world over would be run according to their model and everything in the garden would be rosy. I've read some of the stuff these people put out and to me it's almost the same as reading the pamphlet that the Jehovah's Witnesses gave to me last week....narrow blinkered ideas supported by very selective interpretation of so called "facts" and all coming from a position of having never lived in the real world with real ordinary folk.

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If these so called "experts" were penning such self evident truths there would be no argument and economies the world over would be run according to their model and everything in the garden would be rosy.

Ain't that the truth. All religions are 100% certain their way is the only one as well...... :rolleyes:

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As I said, most Labour voters are too thick to grasp it.

And I have to add that the thickest voters I have encountered are working class Tories. Have you ever asked your local Tory voting labourer why he votes that way. The answer normally sounds like a mish mash of Sun and Daily Mail/Express headlines.

One friend of mine could only come up with "They made my dad a home owner for the first time in his life" (via a council house sell off).

When I pointed out that his dad still lived in the same house, the house that a Labour council had provided for him for decades at a cut price rent, he did not see that as an equally good reason to vote Labour. I also pointed out that my dad paid full price with a mortgage for all of our houses and never needed a cheap ride for twenty years followed by a gift/bribe to own a house. Seeing as his dad had always worked in a decent paying job I felt the need to point out that it was his dads choice to take the cheap option. If he suffered some stigma from growing up on a council estate he needed to place the blame at the correct door. That went down like a lead balloon. :lol:

Another friend told me that she voted Tory because all the election posters on the duff estate she lived on were Labour but up the road in the posh area they were all Tory. Her childhood problems and unthinking aspirations to be like the folk up the road set an unbreakable lock on all her future votes.

To an extent I do agree that a large percentage of the electorate who bother to vote expend no more thought on a visit to the polling station than I do on a visit to the loo. However, I am almost certain that the largest beneficiaries of this are the Tories. If most people right up to so called middle England level properly assessed the Tories they wouldn't even come third.

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And I have to add that the thickest voters I have encountered are working class Tories. Have you ever asked your local Tory voting labourer why he votes that way. The answer normally sounds like a mish mash of Sun and Daily Mail/Express headlines.

One friend of mine could only come up with "They made my dad a home owner for the first time in his life" (via a council house sell off).

When I pointed out that his dad still lived in the same house, the house that a Labour council had provided for him for decades at a cut price rent, he did not see that as an equally good reason to vote Labour. I also pointed out that my dad paid full price with a mortgage for all of our houses and never needed a cheap ride for twenty years followed by a gift/bribe to own a house. Seeing as his dad had always worked in a decent paying job I felt the need to point out that it was his dads choice to take the cheap option. If he suffered some stigma from growing up on a council estate he needed to place the blame at the correct door. That went down like a lead balloon. :lol:

Another friend told me that she voted Tory because all the election posters on the duff estate she lived on were Labour but up the road in the posh area they were all Tory. Her childhood problems and unthinking aspirations to be like the folk up the road set an unbreakable lock on all her future votes.

To an extent I do agree that a large percentage of the electorate who bother to vote expend no more thought on a visit to the polling station than I do on a visit to the loo. However, I am almost certain that the largest beneficiaries of this are the Tories. If most people right up to so called middle England level properly assessed the Tories they wouldn't even come third.

Nick, I've got to say that your piece is the only worthwhile post I've found on this forum. I'm afraid that most folk tend to vote Tory based upon the garbage they're fed. If most people were too thick and voted labour, how come there are only 2 newspapers in this country that are pro Labour? The rest - and particularly the Sun and the Mail - are uber Tory as well we know.

It's the same story about the cuts. 58% of people think they're necessary, only because they *think* they're necessary, not because they have a deep rooted understanding of why cuts are needed. And of course, when those 58% actually become affected by the cuts, they will think again. It's just a shame that those people who read the Sun and vote Tory are probably not those who visit the library, simply because they're used to single line paragraphs and words in bold type that tell you what you should be believing.

I think deep down, most people on this forum know that the cuts are idealogical rather than actually necessary. And it's a load of bunkum that the private sector won't suffer because of it. Most of my private sector workmates are as concerned about the cuts as people I know working in the public sector: contract work should come the private sector way, but of course it won't.

So don't kid yourself, these cuts haven't trickled through yet. The very people that are will be affected, those with the heads in the sand and merrily saying 'yeah, cuts are needed'... will be the first to kick off once they become directly affected.

Be careful what you wish for.

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There is a march tomorrow to protest against the reduction in government spending.

People wish to complain that the government doesn't take enough of their money to spend on things they may not want.

There is no protest to complain about the cost of living, or the millionaires who profit from increasing our cost of living, or the labour MPs that stole their money and gave it to millionaires to increase our cost of living.

Ed Milliband is an idiot savant.

Edited by (Blizzard)

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Nick, I've got to say that your piece is the only worthwhile post I've found on this forum. I'm afraid that most folk tend to vote Tory based upon the garbage they're fed. If most people were too thick and voted labour, how come there are only 2 newspapers in this country that are pro Labour? The rest - and particularly the Sun and the Mail - are uber Tory as well we know.

It's the same story about the cuts. 58% of people think they're necessary, only because they *think* they're necessary, not because they have a deep rooted understanding of why cuts are needed. And of course, when those 58% actually become affected by the cuts, they will think again. It's just a shame that those people who read the Sun and vote Tory are probably not those who visit the library, simply because they're used to single line paragraphs and words in bold type that tell you what you should be believing.

I think deep down, most people on this forum know that the cuts are idealogical rather than actually necessary. And it's a load of bunkum that the private sector won't suffer because of it. Most of my private sector workmates are as concerned about the cuts as people I know working in the public sector: contract work should come the private sector way, but of course it won't.

So don't kid yourself, these cuts haven't trickled through yet. The very people that are will be affected, those with the heads in the sand and merrily saying 'yeah, cuts are needed'... will be the first to kick off once they become directly affected.

Be careful what you wish for.

you must be a Sun reader if you dont understand that public sector cuts will filter through to the private sector.

The public sector is to big and labour spanked too much money on buying votes. Cuts are needed but they should come from all of those employed to manage stats that made labour's plans look like they were working rather than from real staff.

Labour fked this country royally, let us not forget that when arguing from now on. Tories may be jobs for the boys but in the scheme of things it still seems better than Milliband being given the cheque book to blow our grandchildrens future.

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There is a march tomorrow to protest against the reduction in government spending.

People wish to complain that the government doesn't take enough of their money to spend on things they may not want.

There is no protest to complain about the cost of living, or the millionaires who profit from increasing our cost of living, or the labour MPs that stole their money and gave it to millionaires to increase our cost of living.

Ed Milliband is an idiot savant.

make the most of it. Never again will you see so many idiots gathered together in one place. :)

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And I have to add that the thickest voters I have encountered are working class Tories. Have you ever asked your local Tory voting labourer why he votes that way. The answer normally sounds like a mish mash of Sun and Daily Mail/Express headlines.

These voters appear and IMHO hold the power who rules the country. ;)

Heath lost the 1974 Election not for the 3 day week but the fool turned off their Televisions at 10-30pm every night. :rolleyes:

Milliband cut up his Brother knowing he would get the Union votes, even those Union Members who did not support the Labour Party.

Without those duff Union Votes of the Membership his Brother Dave would be the Leader of the Labour Party.

Today you will have accept the Muppets who are the Government and the Leader of HM`s so called Loyal Opposition. Not that I think the Labour Dave would have had any impact.

Gawd help you all in your non future. ;)

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Both Blair and Cameron have proven you wrong.

No they don't. I'm not talking about if they are truthful in action, I'm talking about appearing to be truthful in getting elected. I'm not talking about having conviction, I am talking about appearing to have conviction. They were both elected, and that proves me right. Brown was never elected, and never would have been. You completey miss that point here. Anyone who think I am waving a flag for Blair or Cameron as men of substance misunderstands completely what I am talking about.

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You guys make me laugh.

On the one hand the great unwashed are too thick to do anything but but believe any lie they are told but on the other hand 58% support the cuts (and that is a measure of intelligence?). Ahh, hold on, they support the cuts but only because of some vague instinct at the back of their tiny minds! And of course they are far too thick to figure out why they have that niggling feeling.

It must be great to have an unblinking faith in the idea that you are 100% correct because you've mustered your massive intellect and had a good old think about economics and come up with the solution to Britain's woes.

Isn't it a pity that the rest of us thickies will never be able to grasp any of it <_<

Yes, that's basically it exactly. Sorry about your disability, but there really is a right answer.

The idea that economics and politics are just a matter of opinion, and that questions of poverty and inequality are somehow difficult, is the lie that keeps everyone voting for the same bunch of failures.

This has nothing at all to do with support for the 'cuts' though. Those are utterly irrelevant, if they even exist at all.

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From what I can see Milliband's lurch to the left is only good for the tories.

So he's aligning himself further with the Unions, students and public sector who would vote for him anyway.

What about middle England; Mondeo Man?

What does the real vote decider think of Ed?

From what I can see working in the private sector, the cuts are a total irrelevance.

No one in the private sector discusses the cuts like the public broadcasting corporation would make us believe. If anything lurching to the socialist view is a real turn off for the tax payers outside of the public sector.

Discuss.....

....Red Ed was part of the team who destroyed the country and will continue to do so....he will lead a march tomorrow with anarchists setting the tone ...he looks and acts like Dobbin the Mule more and more every day.... :rolleyes:

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From what I can see Milliband's lurch to the left is only good for the tories.

So he's aligning himself further with the Unions, students and public sector who would vote for him anyway.

What about middle England; Mondeo Man?

What does the real vote decider think of Ed?

From what I can see working in the private sector, the cuts are a total irrelevance.

No one in the private sector discusses the cuts like the public broadcasting corporation would make us believe. If anything lurching to the socialist view is a real turn off for the tax payers outside of the public sector.

Discuss.....

What lurch to the left?

Stealing from ordinary people to prop up millionaires isn't a lurch to the left. Borrowing more from bankers only hands more power to bankers, that isn't socialism. Propping up banks, bailing out property speculators and paying 250k to council 'CEOs' isn't socialism.

Similarly, the conservatives aren't into free markets, and don't give a flying ****** about entrepreneurs or business.

The only question now is what kind of corruption you would like.

Edited by (Blizzard)

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You miss the fact that the public swallow sound bites, that is why they use them.

No I am not missing it, I am however discounting that gullability as a big enough factor to repair the problems of this particualr new labour gimp. I am plenty well aware that a focus group somewhere has tested an audience for responsive to some ******** slogan or phrase ,and than then manifests itself in co-ordinated verbal diarrhea from hordes of politicians on all sides. And I also well aware it permeates through politics right now as strongly as when Mandleson and Blair were at their peak.

Forget all that spin shit, think Kinnock. Unelectable. No matter the lead in the opinion polls, no matter the shambles of the tory party, at the point in time it mattered with a lead going into the election, un-******ing-electable by "middle england". IMO that milliband brother is the same, unelectable. Now his brother is a different kettle of fish altogether.

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make the most of it. Never again will you see so many idiots gathered together in one place. :)

You right wing arses never seem to grasp the fact that a major problem with the British public is that they don't protest enough. You seem to think that your overpaid expendable run of the mill jobs just materialized out of thin air as a result of the magic of capitalism. We enjoy a relatively good (but rapidly declining) standard of living today for most of our population as a direct result of the strength that ordinary workers had after WW2. I grew up in an age where it was expected that your living standard would rise even if you stayed in the same job all your life. The decline started in the 80's and now it's only the spivs and chancers that get anywhere. The ordinary loyal working man has been stuffed since Thatcher neutered the unions and started this "my house is an investment" BS that is at the root of all our problems.

If you wish to point out that the last Labour government did nothing to alter the trend I won't have any difficulty in agreeing with that 100%. The Blair led New Labour nonsense was just repackaged lite style conservatism...unregulated capitalism with a smiley face. It came about because Blair and his crew had also mostly never lived amongst real people and made the same mistake made in this thread. They fell for this idea that Britain is largely slightly right of centre and that's where you have to be to win an election. It's totally wrong. A false impression created by decades of Liberals nicking a fair chunk of the left leaning votes.

Still, the LibDems have now completely blown that away. The next general election should be interesting.

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You right wing arses never seem to grasp the fact that a major problem with the British public is that they don't protest enough. You seem to think that your overpaid expendable run of the mill jobs just materialized out of thin air as a result of the magic of capitalism. We enjoy a relatively good (but rapidly declining) standard of living today for most of our population as a direct result of the strength that ordinary workers had after WW2. I grew up in an age where it was expected that your living standard would rise even if you stayed in the same job all your life. The decline started in the 80's and now it's only the spivs and chancers that get anywhere. The ordinary loyal working man has been stuffed since Thatcher neutered the unions and started this "my house is an investment" BS that is at the root of all our problems.

If you wish to point out that the last Labour government did nothing to alter the trend I won't have any difficulty in agreeing with that 100%. The Blair led New Labour nonsense was just repackaged lite style conservatism...unregulated capitalism with a smiley face. It came about because Blair and his crew had also mostly never lived amongst real people and made the same mistake made in this thread. They fell for this idea that Britain is largely slightly right of centre and that's where you have to be to win an election. It's totally wrong. A false impression created by decades of Liberals nicking a fair chunk of the left leaning votes.

Still, the LibDems have now completely blown that away. The next general election should be interesting.

I'd agree we don't protest enough but the unions got what they deserved - you've only got to look at the 70s to see what a mess they were making of the country.

Even now I see too many unions that are based on the ego and power thirst of their leaders rather than the needs of their members

Andy

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Whichever way you cut it the polls are consistently giving Labour a lead in the range of 8-10% and the LD's barely breaking double figures. These two things are not of course unconnected as it's the left half of the LD vote that has peeled off back to Labour because of Clegg's perceived treachery. Oldham East masked the problem they have but Barnsley Central delivered it in spades.

LD activists and councillors are now looking forward to the wipeout in May.It looks as if very few of their representatives will survive the coming slaughter.

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Whichever way you cut it the polls are consistently giving Labour a lead in the range of 8-10% and the LD's barely breaking double figures. These two things are not of course unconnected as it's the left half of the LD vote that has peeled off back to Labour because of Clegg's perceived treachery. Oldham East masked the problem they have but Barnsley Central delivered it in spades.

LD activists and councillors are now looking forward to the wipeout in May.It looks as if very few of their representatives will survive the coming slaughter.

oh noseee they might have to get a proper job

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Doesn't matter, as long as he tells the lies people want to hear he'll be voted for.

Is that how it works for you then, or is that just the rest of us?

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....Red Ed was part of the team who destroyed the country and will continue to do so....he will lead a march tomorrow with anarchists setting the tone ...he looks and acts like Dobbin the Mule more and more every day.... :rolleyes:

I saw some of his speech on tv news yesterday. Standing on a circular stage with an array of projecting screens above his speech to a audience who lapped it up, who see no need for cuts and think Ed Milliband would go back to happy spending.

Ed Milliband kept blaming the coalition for policies of division and claiming they were setting people against people. He really winds me up with his cheap shots to gain political advantage over cuts Labour would have also had to struggle with if they were in power. Not acting responsibly at all. Especially when Ed does not come with clean hands having spent years with Gordon Brown and their lightest touch messed up 'spend spend the money doesn't run out' financial regime which have caused so many of the problems.

Today Ed Milliband says again that we're going back to the 1980s. Ed Miliband: Government putting Britain on path back to 1980s

He described the London demonstration as the "march of the mainstream",

I hope this march and Ed Milliband's role in it, whipping up emotions in stupid people by claiming the government is deliberately trying to cause division without good reason is as much an own goal as his last attempt to smear the Conservatives with their 1980s message. Division is saying employment is a worthy thing over unemployment? Those poor unemployed who see it as politics of division. I'd have thought it high risk for a politician, and leader of the opposition no less, to associate themselves so strongly with marches on London against government policy.

article-1263244-08FCA848000005DC-495_468x353.jpg

Instead, New Labour has decided to associate Cameron explicitly with a fictional character who personifies all that was best, most gleeful and is most fondly remembered about the Thatcher decade – when the nation began to feel proud of itself once more, when it sensed the possibility of greatness afresh, when it started to pump testosterone again. The idiocy of Labour's choice is to have the poster unveiled by the two geekiest members of the Cabinet, two brothers whose very countenance and earnestness makes the Dave-as-Gene concept even more to Cameron's advantage.

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