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Moecat

Problematic Landlord - Need Advice

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Hey there, I've been doing a fair bit of reading of this forum and elsewhere, and I think it's time I express my problem.

As a student in his second year, I managed to get a house in time for the next year (2010). Everything seemed fine, the landlord mentioned that there needed some work to be done in the basement, and that he'd be in there from time to time working on it.

It is a large house with many rooms, he also expressed that he cannot have more than 2 people in (at the time) he did not want to faff around with the process of getting a license for students, I chose to take a blind eye to this as I was very desperate at the time for a house. He simply said for us to keep a low profile for the time being till the contract is sorted

After my contract is up he wants to move in, which is fair enough I'll be gone by then.

However, there have been numerous problems that have arisen, at first I just took them on the chin but it has got to the point where I think my LL is being out of line, it has gotten to the point where I do not feel comfortable in this house no longer, and I just cannot concentrate with my work because of it.

Let me explain...

For the first month me and the other tenant did not have a contract, as according to him he was still sorting this out. I found out that the LL had been moving people that were staying in the hostel he owned nearby, he did not ask us about this, I have seen roughly 3 other people however there have been more.

I had guests over on a weekend, while we were talking in the living room the LL asked to speak with me, in which he started to rant at me for, I cannot remember his exact words but he mentioned that he wanted to keep a low profile again, he then went on to saying that the kitchen was a mess (It wasn't) threatening to kick me out because I did not have a contract yet and he could.

We were not noisy or having a party, simply sitting down and talking. I was in a bit of a shock because he sounded very angry, raising his voice at me.

I then noticed that he was not doing any work on the basement, but simply leaving his tools in there, in which he casually comes into the house to collect them, although we normally never see him, for the most part he was not doing any work in the basement.

We finally had a third tenant living with us and the contracts sorted out.

Then the landlord came in to mention that the floodlight in the back of the house was on (I did not know it could even be turned off without disconnecting it), he then noticed that my roommate had a portable heater (against the contract), however he has good reason to use that heater.

The house is an old one, and the windows let alot of cold air into the house, ontop of this we have storage heaters, which do not do a good enough job of heating the rooms, to give you an example of how bad it is, every morning our shower gels are half frozen in the bathroom.

He said "f*ck the contract, I'll make you all pay for the electricity" despite us being on a contract where he pays for the bills.

The next problem arose over Christmas, all of the house (3 of us) decided to go home. Due to poor weather conditions (snowing) we had to leave early, so we tidied the house the best we could, my room was a bit messy but I did what I could and left. However, the LL went into all 3 of our rooms without asking, albeit it was to replace our storage heaters with new ones, but he did not ask us about this.

We came back to the house to find out that he and his wife had been cleaning it while we were gone, again without telling us they'd be in the house. A few days later he came knocking at my bedroom door asking for rent, I had thought my father had payed for the month, so I told him if he hadn't then I would do so. I have been late for payments, but no more than what the contract says, according to the contract I should pay within 15 days of the due date.

He then started to shout at me, saying that he is sick of my crap, and that the kitchen was a pigstye (It wasn't), why we didn't take out the recycling (which we keep neatly stored in a bag in a large draw, and that my room was a mess, if the rent wasn't payed then he'd kick me out in 2 months, then called me a "f*cking asshole" as he left.

A few days later we talked on the phone, I told him why my room wasn't tidy but he just dismissed this as being an excuse. I took the time to make sure the kitchen was reasonable from then on, even if the other tenants don't.

A while after this there is alot of loud noises coming from the basement, drilling sounds and hammering, everything in the kitchen had been caked in a layer of dust.

It turned out he was knocking one of in the walls in the basement in, he did not tell us this till we asked him about it, absolutely no notice. They were working down there for a good few weeks, and the drilling started as early as 9am.

My other flatmate told me that the LL was talking about me, saying that I never clean the kitchen, and that my curtains are always closed, it is clear he does not like me so much, as most threats and complaints are always directed at me. He called me to say that kitchen was a mess (I've got some photos which i'll try put on later) and that if I don't clean it up in the next two days he would kick me out in two weeks, he said I can take it up with the council, he doesn't care, but I'm out in 2 weeks if its not clean.

He said seeing as my room was a mess and that the other two tenants rooms were clean, I am entirely responsible for the kitchen being messy. He complained that the bin was full, and that we have a dishwasher so he does not understand why we don't put plates straight in there. When he came to look there was ONE dirty plate on the counter, and that is only because I wash my dishes myself.

So grudgingly I cleaned the kitchen up as much as I could, even if the mess wasn't mine or not.

Come 2 days, he did not turn up to inspect, however about 4 days later he is now saying that he kitchen is still a mess when it clearly is not.

A smaller issue, is that we have an internet cap, and if we go over we get charged, which is fair enough, we pay it. However this month, he has told us that he has stopped us being able to go over, because he is sick of trying to get money off of us (He never bothered to ask)

He also complains that the stairs need hoovering, which we do, but this is not a good reason to have to shout about it.

Sorry for the massive post, I have tried to explain everything I can remember.

It has gotten to the point where I don't like being in the communal areas of the house because I know he's around, he is very intimidating to talk to and that is the main reason why I can't answer back most of the time.

He wants to live here when we're gone, so I guess that is why he is being overly protective of his this house, but it is ridiculous, I cannot stand it but It is impractical for me to leave when I have 3 months left before uni is over.

Thank you for reading.

here is a TL;DR Version:

  • Comes into the house without asking
  • Throws mostly empty threats of kicking me out
  • Has been in my room without my permission
  • Does not give us inspection dates, simple turns up and complains when he feels like it
  • Not giving me 2 months notice, 2 weeks instead
  • Unreasonable with the cleanliness of the kitchen
  • Loud noisy work without telling us before hand
  • Intimidating, verbally abusive
  • Leaves his possessions in the house, in the spare rooms etc
  • We are not allowed to use the spare rooms
  • Seems to take no notice of the contract
  • Unreasonably cold house (Said that the inclusive billing was because the heaters would need to stay on, even so its unbearable during winter)

Am I in the wrong or is this completely out of line for the landlord?

Edited by Moecat

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Hey there, I've been doing a fair bit of reading of this forum and elsewhere, and I think it's time I express my problem.

As a student in his second year, I managed to get a house in time for the next year (2010). Everything seemed fine, the landlord mentioned that there needed some work to be done in the basement, and that he'd be in there from time to time working on it.

It is a large house with many rooms, he also expressed that he cannot have more than 2 people in (at the time) he did not want to faff around with the process of getting a license for students, I chose to take a blind eye to this as I was very desperate at the time for a house. He simply said for us to keep a low profile for the time being till the contract is sorted

After my contract is up he wants to move in, which is fair enough I'll be gone by then.

However, there have been numerous problems that have arisen, at first I just took them on the chin but it has got to the point where I think my LL is being out of line, it has gotten to the point where I do not feel comfortable in this house no longer, and I just cannot concentrate with my work because of it.

Let me explain...

For the first month me and the other tenant did not have a contract, as according to him he was still sorting this out. I found out that the LL had been moving people that were staying in the hostel he owned nearby, he did not ask us about this, I have seen roughly 3 other people however there have been more.

I had guests over on a weekend, while we were talking in the living room the LL asked to speak with me, in which he started to rant at me for, I cannot remember his exact words but he mentioned that he wanted to keep a low profile again, he then went on to saying that the kitchen was a mess (It wasn't) threatening to kick me out because I did not have a contract yet and he could.

We were not noisy or having a party, simply sitting down and talking. I was in a bit of a shock because he sounded very angry, raising his voice at me.

I then noticed that he was not doing any work on the basement, but simply leaving his tools in there, in which he casually comes into the house to collect them, although we normally never see him, for the most part he was not doing any work in the basement.

We finally had a third tenant living with us and the contracts sorted out.

Then the landlord came in to mention that the floodlight in the back of the house was on (I did not know it could even be turned off without disconnecting it), he then noticed that my roommate had a portable heater (against the contract), however he has good reason to use that heater.

The house is an old one, and the windows let alot of cold air into the house, ontop of this we have storage heaters, which do not do a good enough job of heating the rooms, to give you an example of how bad it is, every morning our shower gels are half frozen in the bathroom.

He said "f*ck the contract, I'll make you all pay for the electricity" despite us being on a contract where he pays for the bills.

The next problem arose over Christmas, all of the house (3 of us) decided to go home. Due to poor weather conditions (snowing) we had to leave early, so we tidied the house the best we could, my room was a bit messy but I did what I could and left. However, the LL went into all 3 of our rooms without asking, albeit it was to replace our storage heaters with new ones, but he did not ask us about this.

We came back to the house to find out that he and his wife had been cleaning it while we were gone, again without telling us they'd be in the house. A few days later he came knocking at my bedroom door asking for rent, I had thought my father had payed for the month, so I told him if he hadn't then I would do so. I have been late for payments, but no more than what the contract says, according to the contract I should pay within 15 days of the due date.

He then started to shout at me, saying that he is sick of my crap, and that the kitchen was a pigstye (It wasn't), why we didn't take out the recycling (which we keep neatly stored in a bag in a large draw, and that my room was a mess, if the rent wasn't payed then he'd kick me out in 2 months, then called me a "f*cking asshole" as he left.

A few days later we talked on the phone, I told him why my room wasn't tidy but he just dismissed this as being an excuse. I took the time to make sure the kitchen was reasonable from then on, even if the other tenants don't.

A while after this there is alot of loud noises coming from the basement, drilling sounds and hammering, everything in the kitchen had been caked in a layer of dust.

It turned out he was knocking one of in the walls in the basement in, he did not tell us this till we asked him about it, absolutely no notice. They were working down there for a good few weeks, and the drilling started as early as 9am.

My other flatmate told me that the LL was talking about me, saying that I never clean the kitchen, and that my curtains are always closed, it is clear he does not like me so much, as most threats and complaints are always directed at me. He called me to say that kitchen was a mess (I've got some photos which i'll try put on later) and that if I don't clean it up in the next two days he would kick me out in two weeks, he said I can take it up with the council, he doesn't care, but I'm out in 2 weeks if its not clean.

He said seeing as my room was a mess and that the other two tenants rooms were clean, I am entirely responsible for the kitchen being messy. He complained that the bin was full, and that we have a dishwasher so he does not understand why we don't put plates straight in there. When he came to look there was ONE dirty plate on the counter, and that is only because I wash my dishes myself.

So grudgingly I cleaned the kitchen up as much as I could, even if the mess wasn't mine or not.

Come 2 days, he did not turn up to inspect, however about 4 days later he is now saying that he kitchen is still a mess when it clearly is not.

A smaller issue, is that we have an internet cap, and if we go over we get charged, which is fair enough, we pay it. However this month, he has told us that he has stopped us being able to go over, because he is sick of trying to get money off of us (He never bothered to ask)

He also complains that the stairs need hoovering, which we do, but this is not a good reason to have to shout about it.

Sorry for the massive post, I have tried to explain everything I can remember.

It has gotten to the point where I don't like being in the communal areas of the house because I know he's around, he is very intimidating to talk to and that is the main reason why I can't answer back most of the time.

He wants to live here when we're gone, so I guess that is why he is being overly protective of his this house, but it is ridiculous, I cannot stand it but It is impractical for me to leave when I have 3 months left before uni is over.

Thank you for reading.

here is a TL;DR Version:

  • Comes into the house without asking

  • Throws mostly empty threats of kicking me out

  • Has been in my room without my permission

  • Does not give us inspection dates, simple turns up and complains when he feels like it

  • Not giving me 2 months notice, 2 weeks instead

  • Unreasonable with the cleanliness of the kitchen

  • Loud noisy work without telling us before hand

  • Intimidating, verbally abusive

  • Leaves his possessions in the house, in the spare rooms etc

  • We are not allowed to use the spare rooms

  • Seems to take no notice of the contract

  • Unreasonably cold house (Said that the inclusive billing was because the heaters would need to stay on, even so its unbearable during winter)

Am I in the wrong or is this completely out of line for the landlord?

nothing helpful to say except WTF!!!!!!!

Why the hell is he around if he doesn't live there ? Checking your rubbish??? The guy is a complete nutjob, he can't enter without giving you notice, he is completly out of order.

anyway...

Is your contract for the ROOM or sharing the building ?

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As far as I can tell it's for the house according to the contract.

It simply says THE PROPERTY and all the other usual details.

Yeah I mean it is obvious he comes in for far more than just working in the basement on the dampness issue, he comes in and out to pick up tools and other things he leaves down there.

Thanks for the reply.

Edited by Moecat

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Christ, what a nightmare. The guy sounds like a bully. Can you give notice and move out? In my experience, it's not worth sticking around when things get bad like this.

Edit: Just saw what you said about 3 months remaining. Sorry to hear about your situation, but at least it won't last much longer. I found threatening to get the council involved often calms them down.

Edited by Dorkins

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I appreciate the concern, was gonna say it's probably too much hassle considering I'll be finishing my year in uni soon enough anyway. Not to mention he threatened to take our entire deposit because the oven had a bit of burned cheese in it.

Yeah I might consider telling him to back off or else I'll go to the council, I can't take much more of this.

I just find it it difficult to bring up this sort of thing with him, I normally cannot get a word in when he is ranting towards me about things he is not happy with, it's quite intimidating when he is swearing at me.

Thanks for the advice.

Edited by Moecat

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I think I would move out without telling him, just pack up my stuff and go. Can you stay with friends or your parents? So you don't lose money I'd consider not paying the rent for the last month, he can have it from the deposit he won't return.

Failing that, a port of call would be someone at the university, presumably there are some student support services. They must be used to stories like this, and will be a better position to advise you than us here i think. If it is affecting your work you should mention that to them too, you might find they can do something about any adverse affect it is having on your exams or coursework by making allowances for it in some way.

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I think you guys are right, I'll seek advice from the uni, I imagine they would have probably gone over this sort of stuff countless times, it is actually effecting my academic side of life. I am considering just packing my stuff up and leaving, I do have friends I could trust to stay with for a bit. I will ask the uni if they can sort out some temp accommodation for the remainder of the year.

Suggestions are welcome, I'm still thinking things through but I will talk to the university union about this soon. Thanks guys, a cake might be in order.

Edit:

Yeah, I have a strong feeling that we're not actually supposed to be here...a month back he tied up the strings so we couldn't fully pull up the blinds in the living room, of course he didn't tell us about his, just came in and did it...

Edited by Moecat

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So his wife just took a shortcut, going through our frontdoor to the backdoor to get to their hostel...

Thats it...I'm gonna ask the university about some accommodation

I'd love to smash his face in! (will you help me?)

Or maybe leave a burning paper bag full of sh*t outside his door..

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Or maybe leave a burning paper bag full of sh*t outside his door..

pieces of oily fish, placed in curtain linings, between floor boards, gaps in skirting boards will over time create a vile smell that is virtually impossible to track down and even harder to get rid of.

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Personally I'd smash his face in, had an a-hole landlord like that in the past and told him to do one, the other flatmeate thought I was about to plant him. They're a bully and rely on your fear and ignorance. The next time he tries the "I'll throw you out line" tell him tough, it isn't in writing and you'll need it signed and when he's been suckered good n proper into commiting his crime on paper go to the police and tell them he has threatened you verbally in the past and is now threatening to execute an unlawful eviction. Also get onto the tax man and detail the rent you've been paying and guestimates of the other tenents rent. And then phone the council and report him for renting an unregistered HMO.

edit spelling

Edited by zebbedee

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I'm going to try mention it to him next time he has a go, I need to sum up the courage to do so.

However, my rent is due soon, is it wise to not pay the rent, he can keep the deposit and simply leave one day?

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I'm going to try mention it to him next time he has a go, I need to sum up the courage to do so.

However, my rent is due soon, is it wise to not pay the rent, he can keep the deposit and simply leave one day?

Use the support services at the uni, see what they suggest.

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I'm going to try mention it to him next time he has a go, I need to sum up the courage to do so.

However, my rent is due soon, is it wise to not pay the rent, he can keep the deposit and simply leave one day?

Has he registered your deposit with the tenancy deposit scheme (TDS)? If he has, he should have provided you with the paperwork within 14 days fo the start of the contract. If he hasn't, you can claim three times th evalues of the deposot back from him, assuming that you have a standard assured shorthold tenancy (AST). I imagine that might piss him off a little bit more than a few fish down the backs of radiators. If you are going to pursue the TDS route, make sure you document everything and DO NOT take any kind of petty revenge. Check through the old posts on here, some people have already successfully used the TDS route, and have provided info on how to go about it.

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Has he registered your deposit with the tenancy deposit scheme (TDS)? If he has, he should have provided you with the paperwork within 14 days fo the start of the contract. If he hasn't, you can claim three times th evalues of the deposot back from him, assuming that you have a standard assured shorthold tenancy (AST). I imagine that might piss him off a little bit more than a few fish down the backs of radiators. If you are going to pursue the TDS route, make sure you document everything and DO NOT take any kind of petty revenge. Check through the old posts on here, some people have already successfully used the TDS route, and have provided info on how to go about it.

A recent High Court ruling has gutted the provision of the TDS legislation that said landlords must register the deposit within 14 days or face an automatic 3xdeposit fine; now, landlords can register the deposit anytime they want, so long as the tenancy is still ongoing. So, the OP would only be able to go after a 3x deposit penalty once the tenancy has ended (or after he has been kicked out by his landlord).

I am not even sure if HMO landlords are required to register the deposit. Anyone?

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A recent High Court ruling has gutted the provision of the TDS legislation that said landlords must register the deposit within 14 days or face an automatic 3xdeposit fine; now, landlords can register the deposit anytime they want, so long as the tenancy is still ongoing. So, the OP would only be able to go after a 3x deposit penalty once the tenancy has ended (or after he has been kicked out by his landlord).

I am not even sure if HMO landlords are required to register the deposit. Anyone?

Christ, I hadn't heard about this. They teally hate tenants, don't they? Do you have a link?

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Apart from the landlord being loopy it seems that he is letting the property illegally without a HMO licence if more than 2 of you live there.

The uni support services should be able to help with that.

If you want out without being liable for more rent and to avoid any more problems, then you should just be able to get the contract ripped up and leave it at that, so that the landlord can avoid being prosecuted, but if it was me I would take it further because there will be a lot more like you in the future should he be allowed to continue like this.

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Christ, I hadn't heard about this. They teally hate tenants, don't they? Do you have a link?

The decision in the case (Universal Estates v Tiensia and Honeysuckle Properties v Fletcher) can be read here:

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2010/1224.html

Reactions (from both sides - housing law solicitors and a BTL blog) can be read here:

http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/2010/11/tenancy-deposit-protection-eviscerated/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=tenancy-deposit-protection-eviscerated

http://blog.propertyhawk.co.uk/2010/11/tds-high-court-ruling.html

It bears repeating however, that landlords can not retroactively protect the deposit once the tenancy is over, because the three deposit schemes will not accept deposit registrations for a tenancy that has already ended. Thus, a crafty tenant, knowing that his landlord has failed or 'forgotten' to protect the deposit, could wait until after the end of the tenancy to start a claim against the landlord for 3x the depost amount.

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The decision in the case (Universal Estates v Tiensia and Honeysuckle Properties v Fletcher) can be read here:

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2010/1224.html

Reactions (from both sides - housing law solicitors and a BTL blog) can be read here:

http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/2010/11/tenancy-deposit-protection-eviscerated/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=tenancy-deposit-protection-eviscerated

http://blog.propertyhawk.co.uk/2010/11/tds-high-court-ruling.html

It bears repeating however, that landlords can not retroactively protect the deposit once the tenancy is over, because the three deposit schemes will not accept deposit registrations for a tenancy that has already ended. Thus, a crafty tenant, knowing that his landlord has failed or 'forgotten' to protect the deposit, could wait until after the end of the tenancy to start a claim against the landlord for 3x the depost amount.

And it also means that a dishonest or financially inept landlord can use a tenant's deposit money for any purpose they wish, whether that be earning interest or blowing it all at a casino. I though that the whole point of the scheme was to reduce the incidences of landlord's treating tenants' deposits as if they were their own money, but this just puts the cash right back into their hands and is shite.

Thanks for the links.

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And it also means that a dishonest or financially inept landlord can use a tenant's deposit money for any purpose they wish, whether that be earning interest or blowing it all at a casino. I though that the whole point of the scheme was to reduce the incidences of landlord's treating tenants' deposits as if they were their own money, but this just puts the cash right back into their hands and is shite.

Thanks for the links.

i dont understand why the deposit even has to come out of a deposit service in the first place.

If im moving from one property with a protected deposit, to move into another which will have a protected deposit whats the point of me messing around with the cash and the inevitable delays it causes? Why cant i just leave it there and transfer it to the new property? That will also stop landlords messing about with it as how can the argue if its already there and protected. In fact, why does the landlord need to see the money in the first place? Why cant I put it on the DPS and let them access it if they need to!

Edited by yer_maw

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First thing's first. Did he register your deposit with one of the schemes.

If he did then it is safe and you should pay the rent up until you leave.

If he didnt then you need advice on how to play claiming 3 times the amount back from him. You can not do it until after the current lease has expired so I would think that you have to be above board - pay the rent and give correct notice.

If he didnt and you just want to walk away then dont pay anymore rent and just walk when you are ready and forget the deposit.

I would report him though. He doesnt have a multi occupancy license. I bet he doesnt declare the income to HMRC and with what you have said I wouldnt be surprised if he isnt even paying council tax having told the council that the place is empty. Nail him!

Also, guessing at how much trouble he could be in I would not openly threaten him with going to the council because you have no idea how he may react. You never know, he could be swiss and has plenty of space for you in his cellar :)

Edited by richyc

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Apart from the landlord being loopy it seems that he is letting the property illegally without a HMO licence if more than 2 of you live there.

The uni support services should be able to help with that.

If you want out without being liable for more rent and to avoid any more problems, then you should just be able to get the contract ripped up and leave it at that, so that the landlord can avoid being prosecuted, but if it was me I would take it further because there will be a lot more like you in the future should he be allowed to continue like this.

I'm not sure but isn't it a case of if it is an unlicensed HMO then he cannot charge rent and must refund all rent taken to date. If the OP wants to stick it to him.

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Sounds like a screwed up situation - very odd way to live.

You have my sympathy except for the "sometimes as early as 9 am" but even that reminded me of my own student days.

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Apart from the landlord being loopy it seems that he is letting the property illegally without a HMO licence if more than 2 of you live there.

The uni support services should be able to help with that.

If you want out without being liable for more rent and to avoid any more problems, then you should just be able to get the contract ripped up and leave it at that, so that the landlord can avoid being prosecuted, but if it was me I would take it further because there will be a lot more like you in the future should he be allowed to continue like this.

It defiantly sounds like an unlicensed HMO. Does the house have fire doors, smoke detectors and a working fire alarm? If not it is being occupied illegally. The landlord has no legal right to collect any rent. I would contact the local authority and make enquires with Environmental Health.

It worth noting that the landlord would be subject to a proceeds of crime investigation (if the LA are on board). There have been several cases were POCA was used in instances like this.

You don't need to smash his face in, ars e fe ck in other ways. Much more painful

Edited by Mr. Miyagi

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