OnlyMe Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Masochistic government IT offshoring rules that reduce tax revenue and increase discontent See tax breakdown image........ http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/inside-outsourcing/2011/03/masochistic-uk-government-it-offshoring-rules-increase-discontent-and-reduce-tax-revenue.html By Karl Flinders on March 22, 2011 6:00 AM | 2 Comments | More George Osborne would have a tax boost if Coalition was tougher on IT offshorers bringing workers to the UK. In my job as a business journalists I am constantly hearing the phrase "It's a win, win" but when it comes to offshoring IT it seems a "lose, lose" for the UK government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swissy_fit Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Masochistic government IT offshoring rules that reduce tax revenue and increase discontent See tax breakdown image........ http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/inside-outsourcing/2011/03/masochistic-uk-government-it-offshoring-rules-increase-discontent-and-reduce-tax-revenue.html By Karl Flinders on March 22, 2011 6:00 AM | 2 Comments | More George Osborne would have a tax boost if Coalition was tougher on IT offshorers bringing workers to the UK. In my job as a business journalists I am constantly hearing the phrase "It's a win, win" but when it comes to offshoring IT it seems a "lose, lose" for the UK government. Haven't checked recently, but a few years back there were some major IT employers (ie companies that like employing Indian IT workers) making contributions to political parties. They also seem to win govt IT project contracts. But don't worry, it's not a rigged game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needsleep Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Masochistic? George Osborne? I'm sorry but I don't believe it. Say what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xurbia Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 (edited) I was so discontent that I left the country. I pulled out 95% of my cash, closed my company and deprived Britain of my talent. This downward spiral was started by Labour. It's not just IT that's been trashed; it's now sweeping right across the board. Still, we can all go and stack shelves at Tesco's! Actually, we cannot stack shelves because that's the Polish domain. Don't blame the current government too much; they have an impossible mission trying to fix Britain. It makes me laugh when I see Britain involved in yet another conflict. After this latest Libyan conflict dies down in 5 years I expect the Polish stackers will be replaced with Libyan immigrant stackers. Class act. Edited March 23, 2011 by Xurbia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikhail Liebenstein Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 It's widely known Osborne is a bankers bitch, so I suspect he is also an offshorer's bitch too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyMe Posted March 23, 2011 Author Share Posted March 23, 2011 It's widely known Osborne is a bankers bitch, so I suspect he is also an offshorer's bitch too. They sort of go hand in hand don't they? The article is wrong in that is it not government money that is lost it is TAXPAYERS money that is lost - twice, firstly for the unearned income of the potenital taxpayers that don't have a job as a result and secondaly for the lost tax that the government then screws out fo the public in other forms of taxation to make up the gap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skomer Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 The coalition government are meant to be very keen in reducing tax avoidance The s**t will only hit the fan once all the entry level Legal & Accountancy jobs get hit in the way that IT ones have been.... Once the elite see no route into the the professions for their darling offspring then the abuses will be stopped quicker than melting snow in April Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izzy Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 The coalition government are meant to be very keen in reducing tax avoidance The s**t will only hit the fan once all the entry level Legal & Accountancy jobs get hit in the way that IT ones have been.... Once the elite see no route into the the professions for their darling offspring then the abuses will be stopped quicker than melting snow in April Do the Elite's children actually need to work for a living nowadays? Times must be hard indeed! Legal and accountancy are toast. Outsourcing and technology will wither these sectors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skomer Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Do the Elite's children actually need to work for a living nowadays? Times must be hard indeed! Legal and accountancy are toast. Outsourcing and technology will wither these sectors. Perhaps i should have said the Upper Middle Classes - i think they still need to seek employment. They are the ones who naturally see the professions as their constituency I take your point on the elite though..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Reaver Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Here is Switzerland we are seeing more and more Indians replacing IT staff across the board. Eventually no one will have a job I guess. I have been outsourced 3 times now! 02 gave the whole department to Wipro and Techmahindra in Munich and there has not been a job back there since and that was over 2 years ago. Our head of IT here just spent 3 weeks in India and is full of beans now, sickens me to see him to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Orange Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Decimate millions of jobs through employing mostly foreign wage serfs here or abroad (and robots), a strategy by Big Business wanting to maximise profits at the cost of longterm strategy, then millions of UK born people's consumer and tax spending goes through the floor, and the whole rotten system collapses. Simples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izzy Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Decimate millions of jobs through employing mostly foreign wage serfs here or abroad (and robots), a strategy by Big Business wanting to maximise profits at the cost of longterm strategy, then millions of UK born people's consumer and tax spending goes through the floor, and the whole rotten system collapses. Simples. Perhaps all the excess population can be put to good use in 'service'? It's been hell for the Elite lately. Getting a good parlour maid willing to put up with a good slapping and the odd rogering is near on impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skomer Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Perhaps all the excess population can be put to good use in 'service'? It's been hell for the Elite lately. Getting a good parlour maid willing to put up with a good slapping and the odd rogering is near on impossible. I was thinking this too, perhaps watching too much Downton Abbey episodes There is a trend, certainly visible in London, for the Elite and Oligarch/Bankster class to import more serf labour to do the modern equivalent of Parlour Maids, Cooks, Footman, Butlers etc Perhaps the years from the 1930's to the 1990's were an aberration when the Elite & Aristocracy had to downsize due to the cost of employing 'domestics' on a grand scale and now we are on the cusp of going back to those days when labour had few rights and economic muscle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pl1 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Trying to be neutral is there another side to the coin? Companies have less costs when they employ an ICT, which mean their profits go up which means they pay more corporation tax on those profits? Which is greater, the increase in tax on extra profits or the lost tax + payments in benefits/smi of the displaced indigenous ICT worker? I suspect the latter but I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Reaver Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Trying to be neutral is there another side to the coin? Companies have less costs when they employ an ICT, which mean their profits go up which means they pay more corporation tax on those profits? Which is greater, the increase in tax on extra profits or the lost tax + payments in benefits/smi of the displaced indigenous ICT worker? I suspect the latter but I don't know. There are greater impacts to the wider economy. I know a salesman in the Munich BMW and he has seen a distinct drop in his figures since 02 gave the whole thing to India. The Indians spend zero in the local economy! They eat cheap and sleep cheap and don't buy cars etc. One day they will come for your job too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talby Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 The original analysis in the computerweekly blog is also expanded upon in here :- http://www.shout99.com/contractors/showarticle.pl?id=70191;n=10 (Unfortunately you have to join the site to see the replies) It refers specifically the article here :- http://www.mediafire.com/?6st7jdaqwz78wak Well worth a read ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Trying to be neutral is there another side to the coin? Companies have less costs when they employ an ICT, which mean their profits go up which means they pay more corporation tax on those profits? Which is greater, the increase in tax on extra profits or the lost tax + payments in benefits/smi of the displaced indigenous ICT worker? I suspect the latter but I don't know. ICT is a school subject..not a job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petetong Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 ICT is a school subject..not a job I would imagine ICT is a catch all term for anything IT related ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talby Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 ICT = Inter Company Transfer Visa, the mechanism by which big business, with the help of large taxpayer subsidies, imports cheap Indian IT slave labour under the guise of so-called "skills shortages", while tens of thousands of UK IT workers languish on the dole every year. Generously smoothed along with some nice bungs to MP's as well to make the ICT system work. Not reported or discussed in the mainstream media. And of course this makes ICT (Information and Communications Technology) as a subject not worthwhile for the youth of today to study, as all the jobs are going to Indians so what's the point they think ? ICT = Imported Computer Trainee The US equivalent is the H1-B and similar visas, discussed at http://www.techinsurgent.com and elsewhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 ICT is a term used in the Public Sector. IT is the term used in the real World. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_ichikawa Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 The s**t will only hit the fan once all the entry level Legal & Accountancy jobs get hit in the way that IT ones have been.... Legal and accountancy are toast. Outsourcing and technology will wither these sectors. Both already happened, which is why I'm no longer an accountant. I'm seeing depressing numbers of qualified accountant jobs advertised at the 18-21K mark. I.e. not much more than a tesco driver for quite a lot of work to get the qualification. Tech also did the same thing too, whereby the software incorporates much of the once learnt knowledge and does much of the calculation which used to be done. Thus it does most of the work... A mate of mine his dad got quite a shock, he was a finance director at a big company, the company replaced him and the entire staff with a near 100% automated system which interlinked the scanning of product barcodes and pretty much automated the entire process and gave the CEO a little screen to print out reports and projections at a push of a button. He didn't see it coming! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderpup Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Isn't outsourcing one of India's major 'exports'? Cameron was out there not so long ago trying to drum up trade- it was made pretty clear at the time that the price of this access to Indian markets would be no real clampdown on the outsourcing side. One guy I saw interviewed was drooling at the prospect of getting stuck in to UK legal services in a big way- and you can see the logic, if they can undercut by a factor of 3 or 4 to one, they could land a lot of business. So if the government are dragging their feet it may be because deals have been struck in private as to access to UK IT and Legal markets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
togger Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 A £20 billion IT project paying Indian workers £10 per hour = 2,000,000,000 hours work. Over a Million man years!!! Most UK contractors can knock up one of these crumby systems in 6 months by themselves - and it would work too. OK, there will be other costs, but for example, you could buy a PC for every man, woman and child in the UK for that amount too. Wish I was purchasing manager on that - I'd get a billion quid back from Quidco for the staff party. So - Where does all the money go??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Lorne Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 (edited) There are greater impacts to the wider economy. I know a salesman in the Munich BMW and he has seen a distinct drop in his figures since 02 gave the whole thing to India. The Indians spend zero in the local economy! They eat cheap and sleep cheap and don't buy cars etc. One day they will come for your job too. ..one of my OH's friends in Ohio who lost her job in publishing / editing a few years ago due to off - shoring to India was phoned last week by her ex boss to see if she would like a full time job back ...seemingly the OSing didn't work out due to communication problems etc etc ...I would imagine new lower costs in the USA would have been contributory.....suggest we are likely to see more of this ebb and flow as costs fall in the West.... Edited March 27, 2011 by South Lorne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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