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onedaymaybe

Pure Anecdotal- Opinions Please

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I am a HPC addict, but have never posted beofre so am bravely starting a new topic if thats OK.

I graduated from Uni 4 years ago and last night had a big reunion of most of my fellow students and just wanted to post this. For my own part, I bought a house at age 21 with a partner, but sold it when we split when I was 28 and used the little profit I had to help my education. I had a great time, both at Uni and doing a fair bit of travelling, and only partly regret this now that I find myself unable to 'get on the ladder' again, having a new partner and at 36 wanting to start a family- I had a good time!!!

We were a group of 26-40 year olds last night discussing our current situations and it was quite shocking, so thought I would share it here.

We all started studying in 98- the year where grants were got rid of and student loans were the only option, with the repayment threshold of 10k. Some, granted, had family support, but being a 'new university' and all that often entails, most people were self-supporting and over the years despite working part time etc have all got at least 10k in student loans to repay, and many (myself included) other personal debts. I would say that at least 3 quarters of the group are still struggling financially to pay off these debts even with good jobs (but many are stuck still with McJobs despite good degrees). The majority were saying that they can see no way of being able to afford to buy a home in the near future, although they would love to and dare not start families as they would never be able to meet repayments on comittments- both male and female said this.

The most scary conversation, though, took place as we moved on to 'vices' and we discussed smoking, drinking and drug taking. Many comments made me think of 'live fast, die young' as many made comeents along the line of whats the point of staying healthy and living till old age when you will probably not be able to afford anything. Very few people were contributing to pension schemes as they felt enough of their salary was being used to py off debts. Unless you are lucky and well off, poverty beckons and you will be expected to work beyond an age when anyone really wants you there anyway.

I'm probably not making much sense as I am quite upset to see a bunch of people who 7 years ago thought the world was their oyster being so dejected, but do other people think this is right? This isn't just about home ownership., but a sample of people, who I am sure are not unique, putting off family etc and not caring if they pop it early- in fact are welcoming the thought. I am sure they will change their opinions in the future, but all the same it is a sad fact that many people, through circumstances live for today and feel that their future is within their control. What do others think?

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Guest pioneer31

I have to agree that there is very little to look forward to for the 20 and 30 somethings of today. Most of the people I know are fed up, skint, living in debt, demotivated and so on.

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I agree it sounds shocking, but on the other hand, you haven't seen these people for years, and they turn up at a party and try to impress each other. If you haven't made a pile, or married a supermodel, one way to impress is to sound a bit "live fast, die young, leave a good lookin' corpse"-y.

Maybe they went home from the party thinking "poor old 'onedaymaybe', so middle-aged now and yet we used to think he was just like us".

Anyway, no criticism intended, and it was an interesting anecdote, so please keep posting.

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Welcome. Good to see you have started posting.

I agree this is sad, however life has never been easy. Whereas today we have access to easy money and therefore debt, in the past this was not the case. People simply did without.

I feel more people simply need to do without. That includes consumerism and perhaps higher education. We are not lesser human beings because we cannot afford the finer things in life or don't have a degree.

NDL

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Just out of interest do you mind me asking what degrees these folks hold (i.e. subjects)? I'd be interested to know if they're one of the "preferred" degrees or not?

From my own perspective it's been a while since I left Uni (although I recently sat a part time masters), but I mix in a fairly young crowd and people I see leaving Uni now are generally more mature than in my days. Maybe the opportunities aren't there as they were when I left Uni? Maybe people just don't want to get tied down into professional jobs?

I do know several recent graduates with good degrees who are working in shops, leisure facilities - McD's type salaries. I can only hope that there's something more for them. Earning less than 10k a year just isn't going to cut it in an area where a 1BR flat is 140k upwards.

I don't see a lot of anger in these guys, more a sense of futility, so they get on with their lives, enjoy themselves, enjoy their relationships, and make the most of things. Personally I find it very admirable.

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I would say that at least 3 quarters of the group are still struggling financially to pay off these debts even with good jobs (but many are stuck still with McJobs despite good degrees).

If the government wants 50% of school leavers to go to Uni then it's a statistical impossibility that they will all do better or earn more money than the majority of people. Having a degree today is little better than having good A levels 10 years ago, it's a devalued currency, much like Sterling is to the housing stock.

The government basis its stats on every graduate having a PhD in particle physicists from Oxford and then working in the City :rolleyes:

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but being a 'new university' and all that often entails...many are stuck still with McJobs despite good degrees

By "new university", I presume you mean ex-poly? Degrees from these insitutions are often looked upon unfavourably by employers. Also, people's idea of what consitutes a 'good' degree differ wildly. Are we talking Surfing Management or Economics with Management?

majority were saying that they can see no way of being able to afford to buy a home in the near future

Well do something about it then!!!!!!

you will be expected to work beyond an age when anyone really wants you there anyway.

True. The way the current state pension is going, soon you will have to work until you are 90 to claim your pension ( if you survive that long).

The government basis its stats on every graduate having a PhD in particle physicists from Oxford and then working in the City

This is also very true. When the government say "graduates earn more, so they should pay more", they are quoting the average salaries of graduates employed by the AGR (Association of Graduate Recruiters), a collection of large blue-chip organisations (ie investment banks etc). This drive to send the world and his wife to university has been built on a lie.

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"so they get on with their lives, enjoy themselves, enjoy their relationships, and make the most of things. Personally I find it very admirable".

Happened a lot during the early 90s crash as well, when 'normal life' became impossible for so many. People lost their jobs and just went travelling etc. Often had the time of their lives.

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Funny you should say about being 36 and wanting to start a family.

I went for a curry last week with a few friends, we were all 36 years old.

Out of 9 of us only 2 had kids (2 each) with non of the rest of is with any intention of having any neither.

I was wondering if this was weird.

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By "new university", I presume you mean ex-poly? Degrees from these insitutions are often looked upon unfavourably by employers. Also, people's idea of what consitutes a 'good' degree differ wildly. Are we talking Surfing Management or Economics with Management?

I don't think it's so much the institution but the course and experience you have. I went to an ex-Poly, best decision I made, got a work placement at a FTSE 100 company and a degree in Maths. Came out much stronger than a lot of people who went to traditional uni's.

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Don't worry...

Its horrible to think we can't afford homes..

but for the most part we are prfessional people on here..

So if we can't afford homes.. Where is the market..

People shuffle of the other end to join the choir invisible..

So they need us on the starting block..

Only we are not there...

so eventually these homes need to be sold..

There is an oversupply in a lot of areas now..

Its all well and good to say your home is worth X..

But if professionals can only afford X/2 then.. well I am afraid thats what your home is worth..

Interest rate rises which are now hitting hard as fixed term low rates from the peak come to an end are now hitting hard.

Mark your time..

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Well, I don't think we've all turned to drink and drugs but, yes, of the twenty-somethings I know there is a real feeling of hopelessness.

Most are in debt from a few thousand to something terrible.

Despite being mostly As and Bs at A Level and having good degrees, for many 20k would be a 'dream salary' - even though some are doing stressful, 'graduate preferred' jobs.

The only ones earning more are teachers, and would probably be in the same boat as the rest if they hadn't chosen this career.

Working and lower middle class kids that tried hard at school and encouraged to go Uni have often been little more than shafted.

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My youngest (and brightest) son dropped out of 6th form against my wishes and got an apprenticeship with a local builder. At 25 he's now a self employed builder and earning much, much more than he would ever have done with a modest degree.

My advise to the young? If you enjoy working with your hands and don't want to sit in an office all your life forget Uni. and get a trade.

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My youngest (and brightest) son dropped out of 6th form against my wishes and got an apprenticeship with a local builder. At 25 he's now a self employed builder and earning much, much more than he would ever have done with a modest degree.

My advise to the young? If you enjoy working with your hands and don't want to sit in an office all your life forget Uni. and get a trade.

My thoughts entirely. My son is only 10, but I dread the thought of him going to study some two penny degree, resulting in no job, and poor wages with a mountain of debt to repay.

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Well, I don't think we've all turned to drink and drugs but, yes, of the twenty-somethings I know there is a real feeling of hopelessness.

Most are in debt from a few thousand to something terrible.

Despite being mostly As and Bs at A Level and having good degrees, for many 20k would be a 'dream salary' - even though some are doing stressful, 'graduate preferred' jobs.

The only ones earning more are teachers, and would probably be in the same boat as the rest if they hadn't chosen this career.

Working and lower middle class kids that tried hard at school and encouraged to go Uni have often been little more than shafted.

Most 20 somethings I know are the same. Many crippled by debt, only a small number have managed to buy property (often with parental help), most in poorly paid jobs and one with a looming bankruptcy to the tune of several hundred thousand pounds following a failed business venture.

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a sample of people, who I am sure are not unique, putting off family etc and not caring if they pop it early- in fact are welcoming the thought

Yeah, I can relate to that

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My advise to the young? If you enjoy working with your hands and don't want to sit in an office all your life forget Uni. and get a trade.

Hear hear

Edited by Ritters

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You have to be strict with yourself.

For example give up drinking, smoking, dugs.

Give up car and associated expenses. Use public transport instead.

Pay off the debts ASAP

People can live pretty cheaply these days with a little effort and discipline. It may be boring if you cannot find replacements for your vices, but it is better than a feeling of economic slavery.

Edited by ThePiltdownMan

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Being thirty I can appreciate the sentiment of the twentie/thirtie something graduates with their live for today attitude: they have been badly deceived about their prospects, and saddled with debt to boot.

Sometimes I think the student debt situation is simply NuLab social conditioning to get people used to being in debt at a young age. :huh: It amazes me how much debt students are saddled with nowadays - I cannot work out if it is their greed for a blinging lifestyle or that it is impossible to make ends meet without a grant. I suspect it is a bit of both, and must be looked at on an individual basis.

When I was at Uni I had a nearly full grant so I was lucky: however I worked in bars/nightclubs for my last two years two nights a week, and this made all the difference to my finances, because it paid my rent and half my food bill for the week (about £50) - I had a proper student lifestyle - I wore shite from Oxfam, my jumpers had holes in and I did not have any of the stuff that students nowadays think is their god-given right (Ibiza holidays, label clothes, mobile phones, IPODs, laptops etc.)

There are a few problems with the culture of young people IMHO. For example the bl**dy gap year - as far as this is concerned, I just consider it to be a generally a very foolish ''head-burying" exercise. I have an anecdotal case in my younger cousin...he went to Uni, got a mediocre degree, travelled for a year (usual cliche hippy-trail) and then bummed around at his parents for a year, before joining the Met, dropping out a week later ( :blink: ) and then wandering off to Australia travelling for the second time!

He won't face up to things. Travelling the world won't change anything...when he gets back he will just be in more debt.

However, there is a certain caveat to all this: at a certain point the older generation must stop calling the youngsters spoilt and at least try and look at why there is such a widespread sense of dejection and pointlessness. I am on an OK salary (around 30K) but I lodge in a box-room and am careful with money because it is the only way I can put away enough money each month to feel like I am progressing.

For those poor sods on McJobs I have real sympathy...they have been deceived into believing the NuLab crock.

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onedaymaybe,

More and more people in your circumstances appear to be joining HPC. I believe this is a good thing. However, I remain unsure as to what you want.

I cannot respond with any sympathy to you or your friends. I find the undercurrent of narcissism in what you say disturbing. You offer no inspiration or hope to your peers, your elders, and more importantly to those who are younger than you. However, I appreciate you telling it like it is.

What I conclude from your thread is that narcissism is indeed on the rise in people of your kind. I fear your self pity cannot be tamed by empathy and altruism* as you have no interest in that. Society will have to ready itself to live with this increasingly widespread condition. The way you describe how some people might be eager to die, I assume because their life has not lived up to their expectations, intrigues me. In one sense I would endorse it. But that would be inhumane. However, for your friend who is eager to embrace death before his time, then I would suggest you have him do so on the basis of something other than some shallow consumerist ideal and self-pity.

You also say you want to start a family. I’d seriously think twice about that. Perhaps your better off continuing in the fashion you started off and continue to have 'a good time'. This appears to be your legacy.

Note to SFAS. I credit you with these words.

Edited by liquid

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Somwone said it's always been hard. Not for me and my generation it wasn't. Bored saying it. First bought nice 2 bed flat for 22.5k in nice part of West London in 1979 when I was earning about 9k doing an ordinary job.

Feel sorry for youngsters now.

Just watched Channel 4 documentary. Two young blokes - one was aged 24 - he funds his complete lifestyle on 34 credit cards. In the process of setting up a new business (Bean2Bed.com) - paying for everything, including exhibition space at Earls Court - on credit cards.

I kept looking at him thinking 'he's a nutter', but I also thought 'wow, that kid's a risk taker of the highest order'.

Thought his product - a bean bag that turns into a futon was a bloody good idea. I want two for my kids rooms but there is nowhere to order on his web site.

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Just watched Channel 4 documentary. Two young blokes - one was aged 24 - he funds his complete lifestyle on 34 credit cards. In the process of setting up a new business (Bean2Bed.com) - paying for everything, including exhibition space at Earls Court - on credit cards.

What an idiot. I'm setting up a business myself and doing it the sensible way - controlled expenditure, no credit, just actuall cash to invest. If I did have to borrow i'd do it cheaper using bank loans, not teh most expensive possible form of consumer credit. The guy is a moron, doomed to fail as he clearly has no grips on one of the fundamentals of business: financial management. There's a clear distinction between a risk taker in business and a standard issue moron - the risk taker does the sums and figures that he may get a return. The moron just spends spends spends and gets carried away with hsi idea, never thinking about the value of the business.

Also - 34 Credit cards? This brings back my thoughts on banks being responsible for irresponsible lending. People should only be allowed 1 card max...

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good post. i see the same thing with my friends. only 2 have got homes. the rest rent hovels where they can find them. no one can even get a sniff at an affordable home. everyones got kid plans on hold. everyones starting to get too long it the tooth to have any soon. we all mid 30s. its a disaster.

i expect the very young 20s binge drink for the same lost cause reasons. they dont have homes to go to. all of these drunks you see on boozed up britain all live at home or share crappy flats. all temporary lifesyles.

you may as well get blind drunk with your wages every weekend as the money is not good for anything else.

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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