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Mr Yogi

How To Avoid Ever Paying Tax Again...

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http://www.accountingweb.co.uk/topic/tax/struck-companies-dodge-16bn-year/486630

Government agencies taking a “blind eye” to non-compliance are losing the Exchequer up to £16bn a year in lost tax, according to tax justice campaigner Richard Murphy.

In a 68-page report published this weekend, Murphy found that in the year to March 2010 more than 500,000 firms were dissolved after failing to file accounts with Companies House.

“Rather than chase or prosecute them Companies House simply gets rid of the offending companies – so sweeping the problem of non-compliance with the law out of view,” the report concluded.

The agency’s reluctance to pursue non-compliant firms, combined with HMRC’s failure to collect tax from a majority of registered companies means that up to £16bn in tax goes uncollected every year, Murphy estimated.

Analysis of the Companies House register found that a majority of the 500,000+ companies dissolved during the year to March 2010 were removed from the Register of Companies because they did not file documents required by law. Roughly a third of all companies dissolved were less than two years old and had never filed accounts.

Evidence from the study suggested HMRC’s stance with non-compliant companies was equally lax. According to Murphy, HMRC does not appear to demand information from companies struck off if they are less than two years old. “In many cases we know almost nothing at all about those companies that disappeared forever,” the study stated.

All you have to do is set up a new company every couple of years and not file any accounts or returns to Companies House or HMRC. When they strike the company off you just set up another one and start with a clean slate without any awkward questions being asked by anyone.

Rinse and repeat...

The stupidity of those in charge is sometimes mind boggling.

Edited by Mr Yogi

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But I think that you won't be able to have the same directors.

No reason why not. The whole point is that no-one is looking at companies like this who do not file returns. They are just swept under the carpet.

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If they haven't got any data do they really know anything about what is going on? Setting up any company incurs costs, company failure rate is high, if the business is loss making most will throw in the the towel within the first coupe of years and do something else. Would trading lossses be reclaimable in the future - I don't think so, so the business is just shut, accounts not filed because no tax would ever be due and people just walk away. Suspect this is what happens in vast majority of cases.

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If all money was electronic, in theory you could have a government system that would be able to analyse everything based upon the transactions in the system. No one would need to look at anything, and tax could be paid automatically.

As it is, the current system has probably always been like this.

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If all money was electronic, in theory you could have a government system that would be able to analyse everything based upon the transactions in the system. No one would need to look at anything, and tax could be paid automatically.

If all money was electronic and accessible to the government we would have completed the nightmare of a totalitarian police state where everyone would be a slave of whoever is in charge. NO THANKS!

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If they haven't got any data do they really know anything about what is going on? Setting up any company incurs costs, company failure rate is high, if the business is loss making most will throw in the the towel within the first coupe of years and do something else. Would trading lossses be reclaimable in the future - I don't think so, so the business is just shut, accounts not filed because no tax would ever be due and people just walk away. Suspect this is what happens in vast majority of cases.

Perhaps, but it does offer the opportunity for someone with a fundamentally profitable business to set up a succession of limited companies which never file returns, never register for VAT, never make payments of PAYE & NI to HMRC etc etc and then slip under the waves carrying a whole load of tax debt, never to be examined by anyone.

I'm going to see my accountant today!

:D

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If all money was electronic and accessible to the government we would have completed the nightmare of a totalitarian police state where everyone would be a slave of whoever is in charge. NO THANKS!

Why do you think that?

At the moment the way the system works allows people to dodge tax. This places a greater burden upon the honest. Total electronic money would shift the burden from the honest. It would also be a lot cheaper in total, relieving that burden on the honest even more.

As for the totalitarian police state, that doesnt follow. It is possible to have such a state with full electronic money, but it is also possible to have such a state without it. It is all about how that power of all that data in the systems is used. And it would be very difficult to use that information to suppress people, because the information contained are matters of fact, items of truth if you like.

Indeed that data can protect people against the law. People often make accusations such as 'you took that without paying'. The matter can be cleared up quickly when you have actual records of movement of funds.

I also note that over the years, more and more transactions are being carried out by individuals electronically. People are choosing to do this, they are not being coerced. Why are they all doing this if it means, as you say, that they are voting for a totalitarian state?

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No reason why not. The whole point is that no-one is looking at companies like this who do not file returns. They are just swept under the carpet.

Get caught and its a jail sentence and a whole load of problems for the future....

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As for the totalitarian police state, that doesnt follow. It is possible to have such a state with full electronic money, but it is also possible to have such a state without it.

It is infinitely easier with full electronic money, since it would basically allow those in power to prevent you from living if they want to.

And the REAL tax dodgers (the ultra-rich) will always have plenty ways of dodging tax, with trust funds, limited companies, offshore companies etc...

So your idea of full electronic money will not acchieve what you want, and at the same time make things far worse for the common people (especially those that live outside the mainstream).

full electronic money = FASCISM

I also note that over the years, more and more transactions are beingcarried out by individuals electronically. People are choosing to dothis, they are not being coerced. Why are they all doing this if itmeans, as you say, that they are voting for a totalitarian state?

There is a huge difference between doing it out of choice but having the option of not using it, or being forced to use it.

Edited by wise_eagle

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If they haven't got any data do they really know anything about what is going on? Setting up any company incurs costs, company failure rate is high, if the business is loss making most will throw in the the towel within the first coupe of years and do something else. Would trading lossses be reclaimable in the future - I don't think so, so the business is just shut, accounts not filed because no tax would ever be due and people just walk away. Suspect this is what happens in vast majority of cases.

I reckon the vast majority would be simple business start ups that fail. So no tax would be due anyway. The cost of running after this huge number of people would be prohibitive unless there is a good reason known to investigate.

Of course, it must be true that a minority simply fail to file accounts, using a £100 shelf company, probably doing it to avoid tax or any paperwork/record keping atall. Doubt there is any mechanism to stop them just buying another shelf Co.. I think they only ask if you are disqualified from being a dIrector as you can't stop people trying again just because of a business failure. That route would be the worst way to deal with any abuse, as the majority are honest and should not be penalised.

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Why do you think that?

At the moment the way the system works allows people to dodge tax. This places a greater burden upon the honest. Total electronic money would shift the burden from the honest. It would also be a lot cheaper in total, relieving that burden on the honest even more.

As for the totalitarian police state, that doesnt follow. It is possible to have such a state with full electronic money, but it is also possible to have such a state without it. It is all about how that power of all that data in the systems is used. And it would be very difficult to use that information to suppress people, because the information contained are matters of fact, items of truth if you like.

Indeed that data can protect people against the law. People often make accusations such as 'you took that without paying'. The matter can be cleared up quickly when you have actual records of movement of funds.

I also note that over the years, more and more transactions are being carried out by individuals electronically. People are choosing to do this, they are not being coerced. Why are they all doing this if it means, as you say, that they are voting for a totalitarian state?

OK, I'm convinced, RFID chip me up now baby, free me from the oppression of carrying those cumbersome plastic cards, notes and coins!

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Get caught and its a jail sentence and a whole load of problems for the future....

Not unless you're remarkably careless about it. Just treat the cost of lawyers as a business overhead and you're firmly in innocent until proven broke territory.

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HMRC is understaffed, morale is low.

Computer system doesn't work.

They don't answer the phone.

The tax system is so bloody complicated in this country anyway and gets changed at every budget as the Chancellor messes about to try and balance the books. :lol:

They don't know what they are doing.

They rely on random investigations to pull in a few transgressors. A bit like the police.

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It is infinitely easier with full electronic money, since it would basically allow those in power to prevent you from living if they want to.

And the REAL tax dodgers (the ultra-rich) will always have plenty ways of dodging tax, with trust funds, limited companies, offshore companies etc...

So your idea of full electronic money will not acchieve what you want, and at the same time make things far worse for the common people (especially those that live outside the mainstream).

full electronic money = FASCISM

There is a huge difference between doing it out of choice but having the option of not using it, or being forced to use it.

If the power of the information were used to subvert, there would be a feedback effect. And that would be for people to cease using electronic money as money. It is a power that you cannot misuse without causing you to forsake that power, and is therefore one of its benefits.

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If the power of the information were used to subvert, there would be a feedback effect. And that would be for people to cease using electronic money as money. It is a power that you cannot misuse without causing you to forsake that power, and is therefore one of its benefits.

Do ****** off.

:)

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What do you think has happened to the public sector staff who used to investigate such dubious activity ?.

Its what many people on here seem to have wanted, so no point in moaning about the consequences now

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All you have to do is set up a new company every couple of years and not file any accounts or returns to Companies House or HMRC. When they strike the company off you just set up another one and start with a clean slate without any awkward questions being asked by anyone.

Rinse and repeat...

You might get away with it a couple of times before the you get a dawn raid by the fraud squad :lol:

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What do you think has happened to the public sector staff who used to investigate such dubious activity ?.

Its what many people on here seem to have wanted, so no point in moaning about the consequences now

They got reallocated to administer the tax credits system that is so complex that after 5 years is is still unfathomable.

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http://www.accountingweb.co.uk/topic/tax/struck-companies-dodge-16bn-year/486630

All you have to do is set up a new company every couple of years and not file any accounts or returns to Companies House or HMRC. When they strike the company off you just set up another one and start with a clean slate without any awkward questions being asked by anyone.

Rinse and repeat...

The stupidity of those in charge is sometimes mind boggling.

....brilliant money laundering loophole ....just reform every two years under a different name ...the people in charge of HMRC and the Treasury don't deserve to be unless they close the gap ...bring in bounty hunters .... <_<

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Phoenix directors (as they're known) used to be targeted. Unfortunately, the staff who did so, are no longer there, thanks to the public sector job losses so desired by many (who now love to complain that the jobs that used to be done aren't being done anymore ??)

You have to laugh at the short-sightedness sometimes :rolleyes:

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  • 312 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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