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MinceBalls

Made My First Ever Offer

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Hey-ho

We looked at a place in Whitstable on Saturday; I haven't been bothered to look before before but we have a little one and another one on the way so I thought I'd make a little effort. Anyhow, it was a 3 bed semi detached (Victorian) that hasn't been touched in 40 years: every room needs stripping, new windows, flooring, kitchen, all new radiators and so on and so forth... needs about 30K spending on it to modernise in my opinion. It is on for 380K.

We looked at it and whilst it's ok it really needs a lot of work and really needs a loft conversion to get it to a 4 bed for us (another 25K). I reckon 50K might make a decent 4 bed property out of it. 380K + 50K = 430K.

430K for a modernised 4 bed semi detached Victorian is a LOT for the area, I've looked at already modernised 4 bedders and they are up for ~370K.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out a few facts:

  • Modernised 4 bedders on nice quiet streets are on for ~370K (asking)
  • A DETACHED 4 bedder on the same street sold last April for 360K (it wasn't a period property but did have a garage and a bigger garden and an extra bathroom and an extra bedroom)
  • Property prices are 3.4% lower than a year ago in this area and have decreased by ~11% since September 2010

So why the hell do the vendors think they can get 380K when the facts are stacked up against them? Well for one, they are retired babyboomers using the proceeds to retire on (already put an offer in on a bungalow) and for this reason I assume they have factored (already spent in their minds) the overpriced amount they think they will get.

I offered 15% below asking (323K) which in my opinion was way more than generous.

Anyway, they came back with a 'lowest and final' of 10K below asking price... 370K... what a laugh.

I said to the EA, I'll leave my offer on the table, I can see what is happening to prices in Whitstable at the minute and they can come back to me in a few months when it hasn't sold and prices have deteriorated further. I like to get these jibes in early. He didn't like that and said it would be sold before then.

Good luck to anyone who wishes to pay 370K for a smelly old dump which then needs 50K pumping into it to make worth 360K!

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And do you know what ? It proably will.. <_<

Aye, it may well... it may not, but I won't be pumping my hard earned money into a couple of greedy retired folks pockets and then living in a sh1t pit for 1 year. I can wait for something else to come along. In fact I could just put an offer on already modernised 4 bedders in the area and save myself money and the hassle :lol:

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We did the same last month, detached Victorian on at 550K, reduced a few months prior from 575K but a few months prior to that had actually been increased to that from 549K..I kid you not..

Anyhow, in total has been on the market for over two year, in fact it's probably been on for three...... Offered 475K as also requires a lot of work, liveable but hasn't been updated for at least 20 years, bathrooms, kitchen, rewire etc and also no heating on the third floor, was told in no uncertain terms that they'd already turned down an offer of 535K.

Told them to keep my offer on the table but was told it would absolutely sell in the next couple of months at very close to asking price.

Sellers been there for 25 years, retiring and looking to move down south and obviously want some mug to pay for that to happen. Count me out.

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Hey-ho

We looked at a place in Whitstable on Saturday; I haven't been bothered to look before before but we have a little one and another one on the way so I thought I'd make a little effort. Anyhow, it was a 3 bed semi detached (Victorian) that hasn't been touched in 40 years: every room needs stripping, new windows, flooring, kitchen, all new radiators and so on and so forth... needs about 30K spending on it to modernise in my opinion. It is on for 380K.

We looked at it and whilst it's ok it really needs a lot of work and really needs a loft conversion to get it to a 4 bed for us (another 25K). I reckon 50K might make a decent 4 bed property out of it. 380K + 50K = 430K.

430K for a modernised 4 bed semi detached Victorian is a LOT for the area, I've looked at already modernised 4 bedders and they are up for ~370K.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out a few facts:

  • Modernised 4 bedders on nice quiet streets are on for ~370K (asking)
  • A DETACHED 4 bedder on the same street sold last April for 360K (it wasn't a period property but did have a garage and a bigger garden and an extra bathroom and an extra bedroom)
  • Property prices are 3.4% lower than a year ago in this area and have decreased by ~11% since September 2010

So why the hell do the vendors think they can get 380K when the facts are stacked up against them? Well for one, they are retired babyboomers using the proceeds to retire on (already put an offer in on a bungalow) and for this reason I assume they have factored (already spent in their minds) the overpriced amount they think they will get.

I offered 15% below asking (323K) which in my opinion was way more than generous.

Anyway, they came back with a 'lowest and final' of 10K below asking price... 370K... what a laugh.

I said to the EA, I'll leave my offer on the table, I can see what is happening to prices in Whitstable at the minute and they can come back to me in a few months when it hasn't sold and prices have deteriorated further. I like to get these jibes in early. He didn't like that and said it would be sold before then.

Good luck to anyone who wishes to pay 370K for a smelly old dump which then needs 50K pumping into it to make worth 360K!

As long as you know what you are doing.

Original untouched victorians are a nightmare because all window frames, skirting boards, doors, bannisters, soffits etc have lead paint/primer. (You/family will be "mad as hatters" in no time without masks/venting)

Often the walls were limewashed which comes off in layers when stripping wall paper normally resulting in having to hack off old plaster ceilings/walls then replaster. ( Family hazard = Anthrax spores mixed in with horse hair plaster mix)

Check when it was last re-roofed too - get evidence.

Check roof of any bay windows - lead flashing usually off + rot setting into roof.

Check for wet/dry rot behind skirting/cellar ceiling. Check old slate damp proof course is still ok/above flower beds etc.

Edited by erranta

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Hey-ho

We looked at a place in Whitstable on Saturday; I haven't been bothered to look before before but we have a little one and another one on the way so I thought I'd make a little effort. Anyhow, it was a 3 bed semi detached (Victorian) that hasn't been touched in 40 years: every room needs stripping, new windows, flooring, kitchen, all new radiators and so on and so forth... needs about 30K spending on it to modernise in my opinion. It is on for 380K.

We looked at it and whilst it's ok it really needs a lot of work and really needs a loft conversion to get it to a 4 bed for us (another 25K). I reckon 50K might make a decent 4 bed property out of it. 380K + 50K = 430K.

430K for a modernised 4 bed semi detached Victorian is a LOT for the area, I've looked at already modernised 4 bedders and they are up for ~370K.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out a few facts:

I think you've massively underestimated the renovation costs there old boy. If you are in the market then it makes sense to go back to the modernised 4 bedders for £370K.

I'm sure you'll find plenty of upkeep to keep you busy on any Victorian building.

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Frank please tell us why??

+1 I can't see a problem with it. As long as it's time limited. I agree about being polite to agents though. I'd just say something like "we can get cheaper/better elsewhere"

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Rudeness gets you no where. I always find it's best to try and get along with the Estate Agents, (even if you have to smile politely to every stupid comment they make), that way they will put a good word forward with your offer. And NEVER leave an offer on the table.

I wasn't rude, everything I said was as polite as anything but I was to the point. The EA seemed OK and I got on with him but I am not the EA's friend and the EA is not representing me, we went about it in a polite businesslike manner but he didn't like my assumption house prices were on the wane. That's hardly me being rude though. Maybe the word 'jibe' was used incorrectly as actually I simply put forward my offer and reasoning in a fair way. If they don't like what my reasoning is that isn't my problem.

There is no problem in leaving an offer on the table, what is your reasoning behind this? Sounds rather odd to me: I am not contractually obliged to anything by saying this. I've made an offer and i've said come back to me if / when they can't sell the place. Perfectly reasonable thing to say and If they come back to me and prices have fallen more I will simply reduce the offer with a perfectly valid reason for doing so. If you don't agree then that's your opinion but I don't think you are correct in this assertion.

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As long as you know what you are doing.

Original untouched victorians are a nightmare because all window frames, skirting boards, doors, bannisters, soffits etc have lead paint/primer. (You/family will be "mad as hatters" in no time without masks/venting)

Often the walls were limewashed which comes off in layers when stripping wall paper normally resulting in having to hack off old plaster ceilings/walls then replaster. ( Family hazard = Anthrax spores mixed in with horse hair plaster mix)

Check when it was last re-roofed too - get evidence.

Check roof of any bay windows - lead flashing usually off + rot setting into roof.

Check for wet/dry rot behind skirting/cellar ceiling. Check old slate damp proof course is still ok/above flower beds etc.

Yes, I would agree it could be a mare and my estimations didn't take this into account. All the more reason to offer low!

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We did the same last month, detached Victorian on at 550K, reduced a few months prior from 575K but a few months prior to that had actually been increased to that from 549K..I kid you not..

Anyhow, in total has been on the market for over two year, in fact it's probably been on for three...... Offered 475K as also requires a lot of work, liveable but hasn't been updated for at least 20 years, bathrooms, kitchen, rewire etc and also no heating on the third floor, was told in no uncertain terms that they'd already turned down an offer of 535K.

Told them to keep my offer on the table but was told it would absolutely sell in the next couple of months at very close to asking price.

Sellers been there for 25 years, retiring and looking to move down south and obviously want some mug to pay for that to happen. Count me out.

Assuming that wasn't a fictitious offer invented by the EA, how could any vendor be that stupid? £14k off £549k asking = 2.6% off!

When £14k is a lot of money to people who live in half million quid houses, something is seriously wrong.

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Assuming that wasn't a fictitious offer invented by the EA, how could any vendor be that stupid? £14k off £549k asking = 2.6% off!

When £14k is a lot of money to people who live in half million quid houses, something is seriously wrong.

Yes, interesting isn't it. They seem to appreciate the value of 14K but cannot contemplate that 550K is an enormous sum.

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Good luck to anyone who wishes to pay 370K for a smelly old dump which then needs 50K pumping into it to make worth 360K!

That's no way to talk about the place you've just made an offer on! You're just not emotionally committed enough to succeed in the house buying process. I suggest a session watching Location Location Location to let Kirstie show you how it's done.

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That's no way to talk about the place you've just made an offer on! You're just not emotionally committed enough to succeed in the house buying process. I suggest a session watching Location Location Location to let Kirstie show you how it's done.

Lmao. Oh how I've missed watching hormonal Kirstie.

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Assuming that wasn't a fictitious offer invented by the EA, how could any vendor be that stupid? £14k off £549k asking = 2.6% off!

When £14k is a lot of money to people who live in half million quid houses, something is seriously wrong.

He said it was because that at some point in 2008, someone offered them above the asking price for it but as it was with another agent at that time he couldn't verify this offer but this was also this agents justification for increasing the asking price by 25K even though that deal fell through..

He also said that the buyer was insisting that the vendor would be responsible for ensuring that any issues picked up by the survey would be carried out and paid for in full by the vendor otherwise the deal was off.

I thanked him for bringing it to my attention that there was maybe 50K's worth of hidden issues with the house as well as 50K's worth of cosmetic work to be done too and funnily enough he didn't seem too impressed with that.

I still think it was a fictitious offer though but either way he shot himself in the foot.

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I wouldn't dream of buying a house now unless I could buy it for at least 25% less than the current perceived market value.

+1

The sort of money being discussed in this thread for what are fairly average houses is ridiculous. I'd rather rent for ever than saddle myself with that kind of debt. Mind you I'm the sort of person that would cut off their own head just to spite the majority of me.

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Assuming that wasn't a fictitious offer invented by the EA, how could any vendor be that stupid? £14k off £549k asking = 2.6% off!

When £14k is a lot of money to people who live in half million quid houses, something is seriously wrong.

I find it hard to believe there was a £535k offer. In a weak falling market, the EA would want to persuade the vendor to take it! They should have bitten the arm off anyone offering £535k on a £550k asking price. Average % off asking right now is about 9-10% - unless of course the price is nuts like the Victorian semi mentioned in this discussion too. Quite obvious the price of the already modernised ones are better value altogether. With that other one, your piece of string may be very long and there will be ongoing upkeep on any victorian property - much underestimated by the uninitiated.

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I have to agree with erranta on this one (minus the health scares). Having renovated many older Victorian/Edwardian houses when I worked in the family building firm the only 'right way to renovate a house of that age it to completely gut it, trying to preserve any original features that are left. The cost is always 50%+ more than you think it will be as you will find problems.

Those problems include damp proofing, tanking the cellar, dry rot etc. Is the house in a conservation area? Thats even more cost when the Conversation Officer insists that original features such as the sash windows are restored and not replaced.

Without seeing it I would have offered at least £100k off the asking price.

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Yes. Something is seriously wrong.

Agreed. I think the issue is a lot of these houses are being sold by people retiring who have come to see their property in the last 15 years as their 'golden goose'. They have an expectation that when they sell their family home and downsize that the sum left will fund a lavish retirement and a leave a packet for them to hand down to their children. They have mentally already spent the asking price (give or take a few % points).

When we come in and offer 15% less they see it as if we are taking money away from them - steeling part of their wealth.

I would agree with others on here; Bruce et al who think 15% off is not that much and that the property is still overpriced at that level. Maybe in a few months time - by September - sellers might start to get a bit more panicked and a few more bargains will be available but until then its hard work for us offering 15-20% less than asking price and getting silly counter offers of 2.5% discount!

Edited by MinceBalls

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Agreed. I think the issue is a lot of these houses are being sold by people retiring who have come to see their property in the last 15 years as their 'golden goose'. They have an expectation that when they sell their family home and downsize that the sum left will fund a lavish retirement and a leave a packet for them to hand down to their children. They have mentally already spent the asking price (give or take a few % points).

When we come in and offer 15% less they see it as if we are taking money away from them - steeling part of their wealth.

I would agree with others on here; Bruce et al who think 15% off is not that much and that the property is still overpriced at that level. Maybe in a few months time - by September - sellers might start to get a bit more panicked and a few more bargains will be available but until then its hard work for us offering 15-20% less than asking price and getting silly counter offers of 2.5% discount!

Totally agree the place I'm interested in was bought years ago by an elderly couple, probably for less than 20k, but now they are turning down an offer in excess of half a million pounds - because they need the money to fund their retirement and to gift to their children. Mad thing is I'll probably buy for even less when the lawyers sell it to settle the will amongst the kids.

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Hey-ho

We looked at a place in Whitstable on Saturday; I haven't been bothered to look before before but we have a little one and another one on the way so I thought I'd make a little effort. Anyhow, it was a 3 bed semi detached (Victorian) that hasn't been touched in 40 years: every room needs stripping, new windows, flooring, kitchen, all new radiators and so on and so forth... needs about 30K spending on it to modernise in my opinion. It is on for 380K.

Was it this?

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-32257238.html

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  • 311 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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