The Masked Tulip Report post Posted March 18, 2011 Interesting comment about hotels. “Hotels and the leisure industry seem to be suffering really badly, affected by the normal seasonal dip in trade and this year’s bad snow.“In addition, lots of hotels are defaulting on bank lending covenants because the capital value of their property has slumped. Read More http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business-in-wales/business-news/2011/03/18/wales-suffers-biggest-rise-in-business-failures-in-the-uk-91466-28357705/#ixzz1Gvy6HEdp Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pent Up Report post Posted March 18, 2011 I spent a week in the lake district last week and discovered that the inn we were staying at was up for sale. They even showed a couple of prospective buyers round while we were there. Then I overheard a guy at the bar saying that a another pub/b&b was up for sale in a near by town. Also saw two more pubs with accommodation up for sale whilst driving through the Yorkshire dales. I wonder if this is the reason? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Masked Tulip Report post Posted March 18, 2011 I spent a week in the lake district last week and discovered that the inn we were staying at was up for sale. They even showed a couple of prospective buyers round while we were there. Then I overheard a guy at the bar saying that a another pub/b&b was up for sale in a near by town. Also saw two more pubs with accommodation up for sale whilst driving through the Yorkshire dales. I wonder if this is the reason? I can see the entire UK tourist trade going belly up this year. Who is going to spend on holidays in the UK. They are espensive at the best of times. I think the UK economy is in melt-down which is accelerating. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pent Up Report post Posted March 18, 2011 I think the UK economy is in melt-down which is accelerating. Maybe the should pump sea water in, seems to be working for japan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OnlyMe Report post Posted March 18, 2011 I can see the entire UK tourist trade going belly up this year. Who is going to spend on holidays in the UK. They are espensive at the best of times. I think the UK economy is in melt-down which is accelerating. No choice over the costs of housing, I can certaintly exert some choice regards the cost of holidy accommodation - for that reason I ignore UK holiday accommodation completely and go elsewhere. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SarahBell Report post Posted March 18, 2011 I can see the entire UK tourist trade going belly up this year. Who is going to spend on holidays in the UK. They are espensive at the best of times. I think the UK economy is in melt-down which is accelerating. Do a rightmove search for counties and the first propertys that show up by price highest are usually the holiday cottage complexes ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eddie_George Report post Posted March 18, 2011 I thought that with people tightening their belts, and the devaluation of the pound against the Euro, they would be holidaying at home..... perhaps they're just staying at home. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CharlieChuck Report post Posted March 18, 2011 Someone at work told me that his dad has been virtually living in hotels recently on special offers all over the south coast. He pays about 80 for a week. It includes breakfast, not sure about evening meal though. I suppose the hoteliers are hoping to make a profit from the bar and other extra services. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Panda Report post Posted March 18, 2011 Currently in Torbay for a week, sitting here in Torquay its p!ssing it down.................. Talking to a commercial estate agent yesterday about local business for sale, they peaked down here in 2007, been down hill since, some distressed sellers are either be repo'ed, but he states the bottom will see 50% off, some of the non operating B abd B's are going from 50% off peak. If you came down here with cash, you would knock 20% straight off, he reckons you cannot get a mortgage, banks do not want to lend, end of. Its dire down here, but then everywhere i visit in the UK its dire at the moment. B and B's twenty years ago, now bedsits for the B and B's benefit boys. This world is changing, i am not sure if residential lags commercial or the other way round, but once Torquay was a wonderful holiday destination, now the puibs are going gone to Wetherspoons, and the £5.99 jobs just do not alighn with the £650.00 a month average rents down here for two bed accom........... Talking to a local, people are downsizing in houses, utility costs are rising, a couple she knows,, house valued £1 mill 2007, up for sale for £700k, still no takers, locally to Torbay. If residential kicks off, then it will be a bloodbath for the banks, its why base rates can go nowhere, people are distressed at 0.5%. If i was under 25, i would give up, go on benefits, knock out a load of kids, maybe just having a bad day, but i get the sense of despair amongst people, and i cannot see it changing for many years to come............................ P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
profitofdoom Report post Posted March 18, 2011 Someone at work told me that his dad has been virtually living in hotels recently on special offers all over the south coast. He pays about 80 for a week. It includes breakfast, not sure about evening meal though. I suppose the hoteliers are hoping to make a profit from the bar and other extra services. It's quite simple economics.If you have the cash sitting there and you buy a hotel/pub/holiday complex it will make money.Not loads of it,but enough for you to live in a reasonable way.However if you need to borrow the capital forget it.To begin with you will be competing with those who own the businesses outright and they can afford to take you out.Similarly if you think that the kids can go to private schools and the Mrs swan around in a Porsche on the proceeds you are heading up sh*t creek in a paddle-less barbed wire canoe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
7clubs Report post Posted March 18, 2011 I thought that with people tightening their belts, and the devaluation of the pound against the Euro, they would be holidaying at home..... perhaps they're just staying at home. I have just returned from Devon and am currently pricing holiday options. With the rapidly increasing cost of travelling (be it by plane, train or automobile) I would think that certain UK tourism providers could do well out of the economic situation - assuming they have no debt to aid in riding the seasonal nature of the market and also offer the right product at the right price Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Realistbear Report post Posted March 18, 2011 Interesting comment about hotels. Read More http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business-in-wales/business-news/2011/03/18/wales-suffers-biggest-rise-in-business-failures-in-the-uk-91466-28357705/#ixzz1Gvy6HEdp It may be the collapse in businesses that has been behind the higher house prices you have been seeing in Wales. A sort of contraboost to prices. Its going on everywhere, particularly on the FX with the Yen seeing the biggest boost in history following the quake a nuclear threat--triggered frenzied yen buying. £ got a contraboost this morning from the confidence report (record low) higher unemployment (worst since 1994) and OECD downgrade. Bad news theses days is a buy signal. Thus, bad news in Wales is good for house prices. Mad, they have all gone mad. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Masked Tulip Report post Posted March 18, 2011 Currently in Torbay for a week, sitting here in Torquay its p!ssing it down.................. Talking to a commercial estate agent yesterday about local business for sale, they peaked down here in 2007, been down hill since, some distressed sellers are either be repo'ed, but he states the bottom will see 50% off, some of the non operating B abd B's are going from 50% off peak. If you came down here with cash, you would knock 20% straight off, he reckons you cannot get a mortgage, banks do not want to lend, end of. Its dire down here, but then everywhere i visit in the UK its dire at the moment. B and B's twenty years ago, now bedsits for the B and B's benefit boys. This world is changing, i am not sure if residential lags commercial or the other way round, but once Torquay was a wonderful holiday destination, now the puibs are going gone to Wetherspoons, and the £5.99 jobs just do not alighn with the £650.00 a month average rents down here for two bed accom........... Talking to a local, people are downsizing in houses, utility costs are rising, a couple she knows,, house valued £1 mill 2007, up for sale for £700k, still no takers, locally to Torbay. If residential kicks off, then it will be a bloodbath for the banks, its why base rates can go nowhere, people are distressed at 0.5%. If i was under 25, i would give up, go on benefits, knock out a load of kids, maybe just having a bad day, but i get the sense of despair amongst people, and i cannot see it changing for many years to come............................ P Very interesting info about Torbay - thanks. Oddly enough I was considering the same only this week with the exception of the kids thing. Have been thinking of just buying a house and going on the dole. Sod the system. I think a few other HPCers have been posting the same thing also. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hyperduck Quack Quack Report post Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) Early in the Downturn / Brownturn or whatever, and also during the previous recession, the media often had stories of people who were bucking the trend and starting new businesses that appeared to be doing well. I haven't seen any such stories for months. Are there still people out there who are starting businesses that last more than a few weeks? David Cameron was talking about wanting to encourage entrepreneurs (horrible word) the other day. But it seems that the world of entrepreneurism is a bit like a pension scheme closed to new members now as small businesses fall by the wayside and big businesses keep all the good deals to themselves. The only way to become an entrepreneur now, it seems, is to be one already, within a big organisation with lots of financial backing. Openings in almost all areas of economic activity seem to have been blocked off. Edited March 18, 2011 by Hyperduck Quack Quack Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CharlieChuck Report post Posted March 18, 2011 It's quite simple economics.If you have the cash sitting there and you buy a hotel/pub/holiday complex it will make money.Not loads of it,but enough for you to live in a reasonable way.However if you need to borrow the capital forget it.To begin with you will be competing with those who own the businesses outright and they can afford to take you out.Similarly if you think that the kids can go to private schools and the Mrs swan around in a Porsche on the proceeds you are heading up sh*t creek in a paddle-less barbed wire canoe. I'm not sure if you meant to reply to my comment or not? Agree about owning outright, though it seems to me a huge waste of money/resources/lost interest to effectively give yourself a lifestyle job, and a job that is long hours too. If you borrow to finance then you need regular cashflow to make the payments, which I suppose is why the number of special offers is increasing. Tourism always gets hit hard in a recession, it's the easy thing to drop. I'm guessing it'll be even worse domestically this time as Spain/Portugal are in trouble too, so their prices will drop and if you only get one holiday a year, people will head to the sun. I wonder how the other cheaper end will do this year, camp sites, caravan parks etc? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Panda Report post Posted March 18, 2011 Very interesting info about Torbay - thanks. Oddly enough I was considering the same only this week with the exception of the kids thing. Have been thinking of just buying a house and going on the dole. Sod the system. I think a few other HPCers have been posting the same thing also. The agent showed me a hotel which at peak was going for £700k, its now up for £450k, reckon if you can get finance, you would get it for £350k.......Just imagine if you had sold up in residential in 2007, bought a small hotel in Torquay, ouch. I don't have the cash to pay cash for a decent house, so what i have is being spent now bit by bit, unless we see a big step down in the next two years, i will never own another home, sod it. But if i could buy something decent cash where i wanted to live, i reckon i would seriously consider it now. If they merge NI and Tax, and savers tax rises to 32%, cash in the bank is dead in the water. Rents are high, relative to a normal wage, so own the one thing which costs a monthly fortune, pay no PT, and get state handouts, it seems the logical scenario if you are working just to kill time and treading water. Wages have to rise, something has to give, i do not think wages will rise, i know house values are falling and will keep falling, but at what level do you buy back in. But the world is changing, we are heading back to the Dickens times, please sir do you have some change, i have been asked ten time in 2 days...... P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomwatkins Report post Posted March 18, 2011 The agent showed me a hotel which at peak was going for £700k, its now up for £450k, reckon if you can get finance, you would get it for £350k.......Just imagine if you had sold up in residential in 2007, bought a small hotel in Torquay, ouch. I don't have the cash to pay cash for a decent house, so what i have is being spent now bit by bit, unless we see a big step down in the next two years, i will never own another home, sod it. But if i could buy something decent cash where i wanted to live, i reckon i would seriously consider it now. If they merge NI and Tax, and savers tax rises to 32%, cash in the bank is dead in the water. Rents are high, relative to a normal wage, so own the one thing which costs a monthly fortune, pay no PT, and get state handouts, it seems the logical scenario if you are working just to kill time and treading water. Wages have to rise, something has to give, i do not think wages will rise, i know house values are falling and will keep falling, but at what level do you buy back in. But the world is changing, we are heading back to the Dickens times, please sir do you have some change, i have been asked ten time in 2 days...... P You know I often wonder what it was like to be in the Blitz....to come up from the shelter and have nothing left, no house, no possessions, nothing at all. Maybe you lost the breadwinner as well. OK it's bad now but it's not life or death. Oh and it's Red Nose Day and Tokyo is much worse BTW. Feel better now? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Panda Report post Posted March 18, 2011 You know I often wonder what it was like to be in the Blitz....to come up from the shelter and have nothing left, no house, no possessions, nothing at all. Maybe you lost the breadwinner as well. OK it's bad now but it's not life or death. Oh and it's Red Nose Day and Tokyo is much worse BTW. Feel better now? I do understand your sentiment, but this website is not the Salvation Army, its about a house price crash............... Life in Africa is bad in places, very bad, it has been for decades, whats so different..............between Africa and Japan? You don't post everyday hey Africa is much worse, forget house prices in London? Oh yeh, i hate Alex Ferguson, so will not be participatiing in a celebration for him today.......................... P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sun n sea Report post Posted March 18, 2011 Early in the Downturn / Brownturn or whatever, and also during the previous recession, the media often had stories of people who were bucking the trend and starting new businesses that appeared to be doing well. I haven't seen any such stories for months. Are there still people out there who are starting businesses that last more than a few weeks? David Cameron was talking about wanting to encourage entrepreneurs (horrible word) the other day. But it seems that the world of entrepreneurism is a bit like a pension scheme closed to new members now as small businesses fall by the wayside and big businesses keep all the good deals to themselves. The only way to become an entrepreneur now, it seems, is to be one already, within a big organisation with lots of financial backing. Openings in almost all areas of economic activity seem to have been blocked off. Sadly I think you are right. Many people want to start a business but when they look around there are very few markets which will support them... Anything retail and you've got the supermarkets & chain stores to fight off Anything which involves manufacturing and you're fighting the cost advantage of competitors in E Europe and the Far East Anything service related which can be off shored of staffed with low wage migrant workers is out. Anything software or IT related is a portable commodity which can be created cheaper in Mumbai or Shanghai It's all well and good the Government banging on about the business ethic of the British but it really is hard to see any opening for the little guy... governments have connived to create a situation where big companies and low cost imports dominate virtually every part of the economy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
profitofdoom Report post Posted March 18, 2011 Sadly I think you are right. Many people want to start a business but when they look around there are very few markets which will support them... Anything retail and you've got the supermarkets & chain stores to fight off Anything which involves manufacturing and you're fighting the cost advantage of competitors in E Europe and the Far East Anything service related which can be off shored of staffed with low wage migrant workers is out. Anything software or IT related is a portable commodity which can be created cheaper in Mumbai or Shanghai It's all well and good the Government banging on about the business ethic of the British but it really is hard to see any opening for the little guy... governments have connived to create a situation where big companies and low cost imports dominate virtually every part of the economy. Yes that is correct.I have been running my business for 34 years next month and I intend to wind it down.At the moment I employ two other people plus one on a part time basis but wiith the VAT rise which I pay on my profits it really isnt worth it anymore.I have calculated that by downsizing I can keep the same net profit and work part time.So thats another two and a half jobs gone. Has the added benefit that I can de register for VAT too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winkie Report post Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) Sadly I think you are right. Many people want to start a business but when they look around there are very few markets which will support them... Anything retail and you've got the supermarkets & chain stores to fight off Anything which involves manufacturing and you're fighting the cost advantage of competitors in E Europe and the Far East Anything service related which can be off shored of staffed with low wage migrant workers is out. Anything software or IT related is a portable commodity which can be created cheaper in Mumbai or Shanghai It's all well and good the Government banging on about the business ethic of the British but it really is hard to see any opening for the little guy... governments have connived to create a situation where big companies and low cost imports dominate virtually every part of the economy. That is why in today climate the ones with potentially a true entrepreneurial spirit know to either work for the state, the banks or move overseas to work....less graft, more profitable and far more secure...... Edited March 18, 2011 by winkie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tim123 Report post Posted March 18, 2011 The agent showed me a hotel which at peak was going for £700k, its now up for £450k, reckon if you can get finance, you would get it for £350k.......Just imagine if you had sold up in residential in 2007, bought a small hotel in Torquay, ouch. You can have this for 300K (or less) http://www.bettesworths.co.uk/detail.php?c=1&pid=1742&a=hotels-guest-houses-holiday-flats 22 rooms! How can you not make money from that? tim Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Panda Report post Posted March 18, 2011 You can have this for 300K (or less) http://www.bettesworths.co.uk/detail.php?c=1&pid=1742&a=hotels-guest-houses-holiday-flats 22 rooms! How can you not make money from that? tim Refurb costs...........................£150k plus, if its a steal at £300k, i guess it'll be gone before i can get down there hey, who's gonna lend you £270k on that, you will need £30k deposit minimum, and £150k refurb costs, nah, no point, that one will hang................... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
altyfc Report post Posted March 18, 2011 I can see the entire UK tourist trade going belly up this year. Who is going to spend on holidays in the UK. They are espensive at the best of times. I'm sorry but I couldn't disagree more. I have been working in online tourism since the mid 1990s. We're seeing bookings are strong, particularly for the self-catering industry. For us, at least. I also purchase a holiday apartment between the Lake District and Yorkshire Dales just over a year ago. We opened for business in April last year, and achieved an occupancy rate of 73% for the period 1st April to 31st December. For 2011, we are almost fully booked until the end of October, bar the 6 peak weeks in the summer which I am confident will let. There's also a Royal Wedding (actually several, but probably only one that really counts tourism-wise), and a Diamond Jubilee, plus an Olympics on the way next year. I think tourism in the UK is actually perfectly strong at the moment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silver surfer Report post Posted March 18, 2011 But it seems that the world of entrepreneurism is a bit like a pension scheme closed to new members now as small businesses fall by the wayside and big businesses keep all the good deals to themselves. The only way to become an entrepreneur now, it seems, is to be one already, within a big organisation with lots of financial backing. Openings in almost all areas of economic activity seem to have been blocked off. A guy where I work got sacked about two years ago, started a business developing iPhone apps. Very tough first year, kids removed from private school, held onto his house by skin of his teeth. In second year it came good and now he's lining up a sale of his new company and will never have to work again. Met an English couple a few weeks ago on a flight to Hong Kong, they were failing antiques dealers when as a last roll of the dice they tried buying up the Chinese ceramics that English expats had brought back with them when they retired back to the UK after a working life in the far east. Auctioned it off in Shenzen and Shanghai and discovered they were suddenly making a great deal of money. A friend took early retirement, he'd always been a keen gardener and he started a small company that builds victorian style greenhouses and potting sheds out of reclaimed materials. He's a modest sort of bloke so I believe him when he tells me that business has never been better, he says all the food programmes banging on about home grown veg and herbs has made these structures very fashioniable with the wives of wealthy bankers who don't worry too much about the prices. I don't disagree that things are very, very tough. But it's a bit like starting a family, there's never a perfect time, and some will just jump in and some of those will do pretty well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
