chris25 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Not so long ago, the average American man in his 20s had achieved most of the milestones of adulthood: a high-school diploma, financial independence, marriage and children. Today, most men in their 20s hang out in a novel sort of limbo, a hybrid state of semi-hormonal adolescence and responsible self-reliance. This "pre-adulthood" has much to recommend it, especially for the college-educated. But it's time to state what has become obvious to legions of frustrated young women: It doesn't bring out the best in men.Between his lack of responsibilities and an entertainment media devoted to his every pleasure, today's young man has no reason to grow up, says author Kay Hymowitz. She discusses her book, "Manning Up: How the Rise of Women Has Turned Men Into Boys. Still, for these women, one key question won't go away: Where have the good men gone? http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704409004576146321725889448.html#articleTabs%3Darticle In some respect she is right. Young men are increasingly becoming overtaken by smart ambitious girls. But the justification of the process and lack of humanity in the article is poor. She claims everything is to do with the "knowledge economy". No mention about off-shoring of jobs, no mention of house prices, no mention of lack of apprenticeships or on the work training, no mention of job creation issues e.g. automization etc, decline of traditional "manly" industries. But the worst thing is the lack of respect this horrible woman has shown. There is nothing about emotions, about kindness, contribution or compassion. She is basing what she defines a "man" being i.e someone with a home and a successful $60k+ job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrivateerMk2 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Equally, where have all the women gone? You try finding someone who isn't just a teenaged boy with a fanny and no real skills or a bad-tempered tempered, hairy-lipped inferiority-complex-on-legs. Modern society has all but destroyed those elements of the human race that have been exposed to it. You have to look long and hard to find anyone who isn't more or less worthless (except as compost, of course). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Monk Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Men used to go to work while women stayed at home and did the chores, now it's the other way round. They started it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris25 Posted March 17, 2011 Author Share Posted March 17, 2011 Equally, where have all the women gone? You try finding someone who isn't just a teenaged boy with a fanny and no real skills or a bad-tempered tempered, hairy-lipped inferiority-complex-on-legs. Modern society has all but destroyed those elements of the human race that have been exposed to it. You have to look long and hard to find anyone who isn't more or less worthless (except as compost, of course). ha ha it is true. Whilst modern young men may be video-game playing morons, modern women do tend to be incredibly narcissistic, materialistic and yes in some cases (especially if a chav) violent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Allegro Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Equally, where have all the women gone? You try finding someone who isn't just a teenaged boy with a fanny and no real skills or a bad-tempered tempered, hairy-lipped inferiority-complex-on-legs. Modern society has all but destroyed those elements of the human race that have been exposed to it. You have to look long and hard to find anyone who isn't more or less worthless (except as compost, of course). Try Eastern/Central Europe. The best of all possible worlds when it comes to women, IMO - the perfect balance between tradition and modernity. Too far west and you get mardy, lardy, entitlement princesses, too far east and it's all burkhas and ululating at the first sign of trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704409004576146321725889448.html#articleTabs%3Darticle In some respect she is right. Young men are increasingly becoming overtaken by smart ambitious girls. But the justification of the process and lack of humanity in the article is poor. She claims everything is to do with the "knowledge economy". No mention about off-shoring of jobs, no mention of house prices, no mention of lack of apprenticeships or on the work training, no mention of job creation issues e.g. automization etc, decline of traditional "manly" industries. But the worst thing is the lack of respect this horrible woman has shown. There is nothing about emotions, about kindness, contribution or compassion. She is basing what she defines a "man" being i.e someone with a home and a successful $60k+ job. I think a lot of men have wised up about marriage, and how it can be a load of cobblers..It isn't the be all and end all.....If you find the right person, then good for you, but I'd rather be having a good time, than stuck with someone who you didn't really like because that's what "you are supposed to do".....I would find nothing worse than spending 50 years of my life with someone I didn't truly love. A lot of decent blokes are sidelined in the 20's by women because women often experiment with "alpha, alpha" males (twats) and the blokes their own age often don't get a sniff...once the bloke gets in his 30s and is starting to get action, women become jealous.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juvenal Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Try Eastern/Central Europe. The best of all possible worlds when it comes to women, IMO - the perfect balance between tradition and modernity. Too far west and you get mardy, lardy, entitlement princesses, too far east and it's all burkhas and ululating at the first sign of trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipbuilder Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Passing personal grievances and experiences off as 'universal truths' is the opinion writer's raison d'etre. Someone else will have published a book saying the exact opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_ichikawa Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 From Craigslist Best of I see this question posted with some regularity in the personals section, so I thought I'd take a minute to explain things to the ladies out there that haven't figured it out.What happened to all the nice guys? The answer is simple: you did. See, if you think back, really hard, you might vaguely remember a Platonic guy pal who always seemed to want to spend time with you. He'd tag along with you when you went shopping, stop by your place for a movie when you were lonely but didn't feel like going out, or even sit there and hold you while you sobbed and told him about how horribly the (other) guy that you were ******ing treated you. At the time, you probably joked with your girlfriends about how he was a little puppy dog, always following you around, trying to do things to get you to pay attention to him. They probably teased you because they thought he had a crush on you. Given that his behavior was, admittedly, a little pathetic, you vehemently denied having any romantic feelings for him, and buttressed your position by claiming that you were "just friends." Besides, he totally wasn't your type. I mean, he was a little too short, or too bald, or too fat, or too poor, or didn't know how to dress himself, or basically be or do any of the things that your tall, good-looking, fit, rich, stylish boyfriend at the time pulled off with such ease. Eventually, your Platonic buddy drifted away, as your relationship with the boyfriend got more serious and spending time with this other guy was, admittedly, a little weird, if you werent dating him. More time passed, and the boyfriend eventually cheated on you, or became boring, or you realized that the things that attracted you to him weren't the kinds of things that make for a good, long-term relationship. So, now, you're single again, and after having tried the bar scene for several months having only encountered players and douche bags, you wonder, "What happened to all the nice guys?" Well, once again, you did. You ignored the nice guy. You used him for emotional intimacy without reciprocating, in kind, with physical intimacy. You laughed at his consideration and resented his devotion. You valued the aloof boyfriend more than the attentive "just-a-" friend. Eventually, he took the hint and moved on with his life. He probably came to realize, one day, that women aren't really attracted to guys who hold doors open; or make dinners just because; or buy you a Christmas gift that you mentioned, in passing, that you really wanted five months ago; or listen when you're upset; or hold you when you cry. He came to realize that, if he wanted a woman like you, he'd have to act more like the boyfriend that you had. He probably cleaned up his look, started making some money, and generally acted like more of an asshole than he ever wanted to be. Fact is, now, he's probably getting laid, and in a way, your ultimate rejection of him is to thank for that. And I'm sorry that it took the complete absence of "nice guys" in your life for you to realize that you missed them and wanted them. Most women will only have a handful of nice guys stumble into their lives, if that. So, if you're looking for a nice guy, here's what you do: 1.) Build a time machine. 2.) Go back a few years and pull your head out of your ass. 3.) Take a look at what's right in front of you and grab ahold of it. I suppose the other possibility is that you STILL don't really want a nice guy, but you feel the social pressure to at least appear to have matured beyond your infantile taste in men. In which case, you might be in luck, because the nice guy you claim to want has, in reality, shed his nice guy mantle and is out there looking to unleash his cynicism and resentment onto someone just like you. If you were five years younger. So, please: either stop misrepresenting what you want, or own up to the fact that you've ******ed yourself over. You're getting older, after all. It's time to excise the ******** and deal with reality. You didn't want a nice guy then, and he certainly doesn't ******ing want you, now. Sincerely, A Recovering Nice Guy Oddly enough since going quite mad I've become a bit of a fanny magnet.... though these things no longer interest me any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berk-hater Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 From Craigslist Best of Oddly enough since going quite mad I've become a bit of a fanny magnet.... though these things no longer interest me any more. Fabulous Ken, just fabulous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 From Craigslist Best of Oddly enough since going quite mad I've become a bit of a fanny magnet.... though these things no longer interest me any more. Don't blame you Ken...It's all a load of shite.. A friend keeps on saying "when your single, you want a bird, but when you've got one, you want to be single..." a friend of mine in his early thirties is chasing all the skirt he can...I really can't be bothered about all that... Men get such a raw deal when it comes to kids...they get a lousy deal in the divorce courts, or constantly get called paedophiles..I'm not surprised a lot don't want anything to do with the whole family thing...Ppl can't get their head round that a large number of ppl are happy and content being single... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pauly_Boy Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I'm single after a 7yr relationship. I can't say i;m enjoying it as my ex really was my best mate. Still not having to think about other ppl has it's positives and it's nice seeing other ladies. However, it can be lonely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
payback period Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 You ignored the nice guy. You used him for emotional intimacy without reciprocating, in kind, with physical intimacy. Translation = I treated you nicely hoping you'd let me f*ck you. You didn't. Now I'm angry. That is not love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Melchett Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I have a theory that (many) women tend to go for.. shall we say the not so nice guys? - because they think, rightly or wrongly that that type is likely to be more materially successful. What they dont seem to to appreciate is that the not so nice guy is not interested in sharing any material success he does get or in watching SATC or choosing scatter cushions or whatever, but rather wants to use his success to buy what he wants: To him it is all a simple transaction. Problems likely then arise because this is not how the woman sees it. But frankly, speaking as a nice guy, my sympathy is with the not so nice guy here. She is trying to impose what she wants on him. If she wanted something different, then she should have gone for a different sort of guy. You pays your money and you takes your choice, as the saying goes. I am mid 40s. I have plenty of nice, single guy friends who have frankly had it with women and are no longer interested, certainly not on their terms. I also know plenty of single females who are desperate. Some of what the craigslist article may be objectionable, as Payback illustrates, but the general thrust of it is about right, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Translation = I treated you nicely hoping you'd let me f*ck you. You didn't. Now I'm angry. That is not love. Further translation - I let you treat me nicely, knowing all along I would never ****** you. That is exploitation. The problem for the nice guys is that this is enabling behaviour - while women want stability, sex + intimacy if the nice guy supplies the stability and intimacy, the woman in question is free to go off and ****** dickheads for her sexual release. And then come home and QQ to captain sap, who can always dip into his plentiful supply of tissues to help dry those tears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I have a theory that (many) women tend to go for.. shall we say the not so nice guys? - because they think, rightly or wrongly that that type is likely to be more materially successful. What they dont seem to to appreciate is that the not so nice guy is not interested in sharing any material success he does get or in watching SATC or choosing scatter cushions or whatever, but rather wants to use his success to buy what he wants: To him it is all a simple transaction. Problems likely then arise because this is not how the woman sees it. But frankly, speaking as a nice guy, my sympathy is with the not so nice guy here. She is trying to impose what she wants on him. If she wanted something different, then she should have gone for a different sort of guy. You pays your money and you takes your choice, as the saying goes. I am mid 40s. I have plenty of nice, single guy friends who have frankly had it with women and are no longer interested, certainly not on their terms. I also know plenty of single females who are desperate. Some of what the craigslist article may be objectionable, as Payback illustrates, but the general thrust of it is about right, IMHO. Generally a woman's romantic relationships with men are roughly the same as her childhood relationship with her dad. "I'm attracted to distant men who can provide me with money but don't really show they care about me except sporadically." Is a far too common pattern and pretty hard to overcome as well - it requires facing the fact that pops was a deadbeat, mummy was useless and childhood was basically a lie. People take beatings and die rather than do that sort of therapeutic work on themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
profitofdoom Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Generally a woman's romantic relationships with men are roughly the same as her childhood relationship with her dad. "I'm attracted to distant men who can provide me with money but don't really show they care about me except sporadically." Is a far too common pattern and pretty hard to overcome as well - it requires facing the fact that pops was a deadbeat, mummy was useless and childhood was basically a lie. People take beatings and die rather than do that sort of therapeutic work on themselves. The basic problem is that the sexes are incompatible.They want different things out of life and any significant compromise on this lowers the quality of the relationship for both.Where two people get together there is inevitably a degree of both trying to fit into wrong shaped holes with all the frustrations involved.Once you both become older though this does ease to an extent,especially if you share some sort of hobby or pastime.You might not be deliriously happy,that's an un realistic goal,but you can be contented. Of course this doesn't apply to the 50% of the population who are nutters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porca misèria Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Oh dear. As ever, the man-eating women are just stealing old ideas from their superiors. See, for instance, some of the stories in Garrison Kiellor's (1993) Book of Guys. Hmmm. Or closer to home, Tom Sharpe's (1976) Wilt. Can't remember names, but the scene where the monstrous american liberated woman expects husband to do a man's job and fix the boat that's stuck in mud .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I think a lot of men have wised up about marriage, and how it can be a load of cobblers..It isn't the be all and end all.....If you find the right person, then good for you, but I'd rather be having a good time, than stuck with someone who you didn't really like because that's what "you are supposed to do".....I would find nothing worse than spending 50 years of my life with someone I didn't truly love. A lot of decent blokes are sidelined in the 20's by women because women often experiment with "alpha, alpha" males (twats) and the blokes their own age often don't get a sniff...once the bloke gets in his 30s and is starting to get action, women become jealous.. The basic problem is that the sexes are incompatible.They want different things out of life and any significant compromise on this lowers the quality of the relationship for both.Where two people get together there is inevitably a degree of both trying to fit into wrong shaped holes with all the frustrations involved.Once you both become older though this does ease to an extent,especially if you share some sort of hobby or pastime.You might not be deliriously happy,that's an un realistic goal,but you can be contented. Of course this doesn't apply to the 50% of the population who are nutters. Totally agree. And I have had many posts on this very subject. My plan of a semi-open relationship with birds is the way forward IMO. Instead of trying to create the perfect marriage - which is simply not going to happen. Choose the bits you like to get/enjoy from each other - and leave the rest. Job done. As I said in a thread I started a while back. Being single and happy in the UK today is simply not allowed. It is not socially acceptable. If you say you are gay or married or whatever - fine. Everyone seems delighted for you. Tell them you are single and happy ? Not a chance. You WILL find someone. You WILL change. You HAVE NOT found the right person yet. When you think about it - it really is ******ing rude. In all honestly I think the main reason these things are said ? Jealousy. These people have gone down the standard route they are supposed to. And found out it is not as great as they first thought. Now they don't want anybody else opting out and having a fun single life. If they arent going to have it - then nobody else should either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Totally agree. And I have had many posts on this very subject. My plan of a semi-open relationship with birds is the way forward IMO. Instead of trying to create the perfect marriage - which is simply not going to happen. Choose the bits you like to get/enjoy from each other - and leave the rest. Job done. As I said in a thread I started a while back. Being single and happy in the UK today is simply not allowed. It is not socially acceptable. If you say you are gay or married or whatever - fine. Everyone seems delighted for you. Tell them you are single and happy ? Not a chance. You WILL find someone. You WILL change. You HAVE NOT found the right person yet. When you think about it - it really is ******ing rude. In all honestly I think the main reason these things are said ? Jealousy. These people have gone down the standard route they are supposed to. And found out it is not as great as they first thought. Now they don't want anybody else opting out and having a fun single life. If they arent going to have it - then nobody else should either. As discussed here many times, for me, monogamy goes against our biological make-up..its an unrealistic state for a lot of ppl..if you said to your partner.."look, one of us will most likely have an affair, how should we deal with it, when it does happen?" the relationship would never take off. I think it's natural that you are going to get bored knobbing the same person...we have to be more grown-up when it does happen. I've got to go to a wedding later today...I'm dreading some of the comments... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Melchett Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I've got to go to a wedding later today...I'm dreading some of the comments... Just say you've got two hands, so if you ever get bored you can always switch to the other one. That should shut most people up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 As discussed here many times, for me, monogamy goes against our biological make-up..its an unrealistic state for a lot of ppl..if you said to your partner.."look, one of us will most likely have an affair, how should we deal with it, when it does happen?" the relationship would never take off. I think it's natural that you are going to get bored knobbing the same person...we have to be more grown-up when it does happen. I've got to go to a wedding later today...I'm dreading some of the comments... Incorrect IMO. Many people would feel like a weight had been lifted off their backs. They just don't try it so they never actually find out. They just go along and do what they are 'told' to. Even though - as you say - it goes against our innermost make up. And as you say - you will get bored of nobbing the same person. So why try and fight it ? Why cannot 2 adults just say they will occassionally go off and have a bit of fun with someone else ? I really don't see the issue. More people should try it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffneck Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 It's because divorce settlement and child courts are so in favour of women now. Take sperm donation : you don't get paid for your donation and the child gets to find out who you are when they turn 18.Absolutely bizarre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
profitofdoom Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Incorrect IMO. Many people would feel like a weight had been lifted off their backs. They just don't try it so they never actually find out. They just go along and do what they are 'told' to. Even though - as you say - it goes against our innermost make up. And as you say - you will get bored of nobbing the same person. So why try and fight it ? Why cannot 2 adults just say they will occassionally go off and have a bit of fun with someone else ? I really don't see the issue. More people should try it. That underlines my point re:Incompatibility most men think like this but not that many women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 That underlines my point re:Incompatibility most men think like this but not that many women. Yes very true. You just need to find one that doesn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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