No More Take Away Jobs For Non Eu Immgrants

[Injin]

Work does have value. It stops humans brains/bodies from going to mush. And as I have said - this 'work' doesn't have to be going out doing some 9-5 job. There are numerous things that could be classed as work. In fact IMO - anything that involves doing something. I am going to strip down and service my bike next week. That is work. That has value. It means I will learn things that will enable me to fix my bike in future. Which is of benefit to me.

Work can create things that can be pleasurable. If you think that has no value then fine. Your life must be rather dull.

Stuff has value, things that people enjoy have value, work has none by itself - only the results count.

[Gerinako]

Remind us !

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=2927025

Closely followed by a reply from awaytogo who didn't read the full post. E.g. the NOT at the end!

His reply received several reply which stimulated more replies and so on and so on....quite amusing really!

Edited March 16, 2011 by Gerinako

[wonderpup]

Get the idea of laziness out of your head, stop thinking such crap, it belongs nowhere in a discussion about the economic assignment of workers to jobs.

It seems to work like this;

When a rich person demands an incentive to work he's 'talented'

When a poor person demands an incentive to work he's 'lazy'

[ccc]

Stuff has value, things that people enjoy have value, work has none by itself - only the results count.

Aha - so you agree that some work does have value ?

http://www.housepric...ost&pid=2927025

Closely followed by a reply from awaytogo who didn't read the full post. E.g. the NOT at the end!

His reply received several reply which stimulated more replies and so on and so on....quite amusing really!

The NOT is usually rather important.

It seems to work like this;

When a rich person demands an incentive to work he's 'talented'

When a poor person demands an incentive to work he's 'lazy'

Incentives are different for people people at different times. Some are better - some are worse. It is life, has always been, and as far as I can see - always will be.

The problem with the 'poor' demanding incentives to work - is that their incentive NOT to work is in some case MORE.

That is one of the major issues. It is not exactly rocket science.

Citizens income. The incentive to work is ALWAYS more than the incentive NOT to work. Job done.

[Harry Monk]

Nah, thats just a story invented by a bitter and twisted loser.

Well, you know what they say, a liar never believes a word anybody else ever says.

[Injin]

Aha - so you agree that some work does have value ?

Nope, work is valueless.

Easy to see - if you could get the effect of whatever took a lot of work without the work, would you?

Of course you would - it's why we have all that we have, to do less work. You don't want the hours labour it took to make the pie, you want the pie.

[ccc]

Nope, work is valueless.

Easy to see - if you could get the effect of whatever took a lot of work without the work, would you?

Of course you would - it's why we have all that we have, to do less work. You don't want the hours labour it took to make the pie, you want the pie.

I see where you are coming from - however I see it a little differently - as part of the bigger picture.

You see - this is why I disagree. The pie tastes nicer if it took your own labour to produce.

There is value to work. If we all got everything we wanted with no effort required to go into it ? I honestly think half the World would end themselves. As a species we need to work for things. It is in us somewhere. It is not something that can be easily explained.

Make yourself a curry from scratch. And on another day get one from a takeaway.

Everyone knows the one you put 3 hours of effort into will taste better. Who knows why. It is probably all in our minds. But that doesn't matter. It makes us feel better. It just does. And even if it is in our minds our minds control our bodies and we will literally and physically feel better for having put the effort in. Exactly the same goes for a pint of ice cold lager after working your **** off all day.

And we ALL know it. The details behind it ? ****** knows !! However don't think even you would argue the general point ?

[South Lorne]

There is value to work.

...'The devil finds work for idle hands'....English Idiom.....

[Harry Monk]

I see where you are coming from - however I see it a little differently - as part of the bigger picture.

You see - this is why I disagree. The pie tastes nicer if it took your own labour to produce.

There is value to work. If we all got everything we wanted with no effort required to go into it ? I honestly think half the World would end themselves. As a species we need to work for things. It is in us somewhere. It is not something that can be easily explained.

But this runs contrary to your standard argument that people who are not working choose not to work.

[Injin]

I see where you are coming from - however I see it a little differently - as part of the bigger picture.

You see - this is why I disagree. The pie tastes nicer if it took your own labour to produce.

No, it doesn't. Chemistry doesn't work like this - though there can be low level hypnotic effects if you believe bilge.

There is value to work. If we all got everything we wanted with no effort required to go into it ? I honestly think half the World would end themselves. As a species we need to work for things. It is in us somewhere. It is not something that can be easily explained.

You mean you've got a feeling without factual foundation and are trying to make it into a universal rule?

okidoki.

Make yourself a curry from scratch. And on another day get one from a takeaway.

Everyone knows the one you put 3 hours of effort into will taste better. Who knows why. It is probably all in our minds. But that doesn't matter. It makes us feel better. It just does. And even if it is in our minds our minds control our bodies and we will literally and physically feel better for having put the effort in. Exactly the same goes for a pint of ice cold lager after working your **** off all day.

And we ALL know it. The details behind it ? ****** knows !! However don't think even you would argue the general point ?

If it's the same recipe with the exact same cooking environment it's going to taste exactly the same.

Sorry bud, you are 100% wrong.

[ccc]

But this runs contrary to your standard argument that people who are not working choose not to work.

When did I say all people who are not working choose not to work ?

And did you not read my numerous posts about work not having to be the usual 'work' as we see it in 9-5 going to the office sort of stuff ?

No, it doesn't. Chemistry doesn't work like this - though there can be low level hypnotic effects if you believe bilge.

You mean you've got a feeling without factual foundation and are trying to make it into a universal rule?

okidoki.

If it's the same recipe with the exact same cooking environment it's going to taste exactly the same.

Sorry bud, you are 100% wrong.

Well this is where you are 100% wrong. And you usual logical process of elimination has failed. And it is down to chemistry as well. So nae luck

When we have heightended states of pleasure our brain releases different chemicals. When you spend a lot of time producing something then your state of please when consuming it is clearly going to be higher than if you just wander into a shop and buy it.

Hence your brain releases more endorphins/ Dopamine etc.. Hence it does actually make you feel better, and your brain will tell you that THIS PIE DOES IN FACT TASTE BETTER !!

And there are millions of people out there who will back this up.

I know you won't admit I have a point on this one. But I also know you know that I do. And so will anyone else reading this.

[Injin]

Well this is where you are 100% wrong. And you usual logical process of elimination has failed. And it is down to chemistry as well. So nae luck

When we have heightended states of pleasure our brain releases different chemicals. When you spend a lot of time producing something then your state of please when consuming it is clearly going to be higher than if you just wander into a shop and buy it.

Hence your brain releases more endorphins/ Dopamine etc.. Hence it does actually make you feel better, and your brain will tell you that THIS PIE DOES IN FACT TASTE BETTER !!

And there are millions of people out there who will back this up.

I know you won't admit I have a point on this one. But I also know you know that I do. And so will anyone else reading this.

Like I said, low level hypnotic phenomenon - the same thing that means I can get people to eat an onion and it tastes like apple.

It's not your brain telling you this though, it's the programming you've been given for your brain. Amazingly enough as a slave you have been mindwashed to think that work is an end in and of itself. Very useful for your masters.

[Mrs Bear]

If it's the same recipe with the exact same cooking environment it's going to taste exactly the same.

Sorry bud, you are 100% wrong.

How good anything tastes depends a lot on how hungry you are.

[ccc]

Like I said, low level hypnotic phenomenon - the same thing that means I can get people to eat an onion and it tastes like apple.

It's not your brain telling you this though, it's the programming you've been given for your brain. Amazingly enough as a slave you have been mindwashed to think that work is an end in and of itself. Very useful for your masters.

Eh no - it is not hypnotic phenomenon - it is CHEMISTRY.

Would be far easier for you to just admit I may have a point. It was you who brought chemistry into this. And it was me who ended the debate using chemistry.

Someone who cannot admit when they are wrong on an internet forum - is a very weak person indeed.

Over to you.

How good anything tastes depends a lot on how hungry you are.

Nope. Everything tastes exactly the same according to the ingredients and nothing else - apparently.

According to Injin our minds have nothing to do with this. Our brains are merely brainwashed spectators.

What a load of pish.

[wonderpup]

The problem with the 'poor' demanding incentives to work - is that their incentive NOT to work is in some case MORE.

This is precisely the point that many on here have been trying to make you understand for months- well done.

The issue is not one of 'laziness' it's one of incentives.

You have been taught to believe that a wealthy person who demands an incentive to work is socially acceptable, but a poor person who demands the same is morally defective.

But if you gave it some thought you would realise that a CEO who demands a bonus to do a job he is already well paid to do is not operating in a moral context- his argument is that he requires a cash incentive to work- why is it therefore unacceptable for a poor person to make the same claim?

[ccc]

This is precisely the point that many on here have been trying to make you understand for months- well done.

The issue is not one of 'laziness' it's one of incentives.

You have been taught to believe that a wealthy person who demands an incentive to work is socially acceptable, but a poor person who demands the same is morally defective.

But if you gave it some thought you would realise that a CEO who demands a bonus to do a job he is already well paid to do is not operating in a moral context- his argument is that he requires a cash incentive to work- why is it therefore unacceptable for a poor person to make the same claim?

Again. You are in the growing HPC gang titled 'You must only have one understanding belief of one thing otherwise you are to be ejected immediately'.

Do you not understand that perhaps, just perhaps there are more than one reason behind things ? That perhaps - yes shock horror, incentives AND laziness are both involved in the issues we have today ?

Do you not understand that I have understood the above for months already ? And have never denied the point ? have you not read my numerous posts on subjects like this talking about how people are being paid NOT to work and how it is a joke ?

FFS do people ever listen on this place ?

Can you not open your mind to this possibility ? Or have you, like Injin and others, just been reading Freakonomics recently and think they have the answer to everything.

Incentives - that is it - end of story. Because the guy that wrote Freakonomics told me so.

PS - I found the book very interesting. However, unlike others, I am not going to base the entire Universe around it from this day on. I will also use my own eyes and ears to gain an understanding of people and their attitudes. Makes sense.

[Injin]

Eh no - it is not hypnotic phenomenon - it is CHEMISTRY.

Would be far easier for you to just admit I may have a point. It was you who brought chemistry into this. And it was me who ended the debate using chemistry.

Someone who cannot admit when they are wrong on an internet forum - is a very weak person indeed.

Over to you.

The chemistry is identical in both cases - you claim that mysteriously the chemistry alters if one person makes it versus another which is shite.

Nope. Everything tastes exactly the same according to the ingredients and nothing else - apparently.

According to Injin our minds have nothing to do with this. Our brains are merely brainwashed spectators.

What a load of pish.

If you believe the truth - which is that they are factually identical, they will taste identical.

If you believe that the one you worked for should taste differently, you'll get some low level hypnoic effect - but it's not the food, and it's not the work, it's how you are using your brain. Actually, how you have been taught to use your brain.

[Injin]

This is precisely the point that many on here have been trying to make you understand for months- well done.

The issue is not one of 'laziness' it's one of incentives.

You have been taught to believe that a wealthy person who demands an incentive to work is socially acceptable, but a poor person who demands the same is morally defective.

But if you gave it some thought you would realise that a CEO who demands a bonus to do a job he is already well paid to do is not operating in a moral context- his argument is that he requires a cash incentive to work- why is it therefore unacceptable for a poor person to make the same claim?

Same incentive, same behaviours.

No idea why you think anything is different.

[ccc]

The chemistry is identical in both cases - you claim that mysteriously the chemistry alters if one person makes it versus another which is shite.

If you believe the truth - which is that they are factually identical, they will taste identical.

If you believe that the one you worked for should taste differently, you'll get some low level hypnoic effect - but it's not the food, and it's not the work, it's how you are using your brain. Actually, how you have been taught to use your brain.

Sorry - but I think that is totally ********.

You honestly think your brain has no ability to change how you 'taste' something or not ?!

If you do - then I don't even know where to begin.

How about this. One person being forced to run at gunpoint for 5 miles or they are told they will be shot. The entire way.

Same person running 5 miles at the weekend. Because they like being outdoors and the exercise.

You are telling me that at the end of these 2 events - the person will be feeling - and chemically be in exactly the same state - as when they started ?!

FFS - you talk nonsense sometimes. Destroys the good point you often make.

[Injin]

Sorry - but I think that is totally ********.

You honestly think your brain has no ability to change how you 'taste' something or not ?!

Erm I explicitly said your brain is changing the taste based on your belief. Change the belief, the taste will change - but it's ****** all to do with work or the food.

If you do - then I don't even know where to begin.

How about this. One person being forced to run at gunpoint for 5 miles or they are told they will be shot. The entire way.

Same person running 5 miles at the weekend. Because they like being outdoors and the exercise.

You are telling me that at the end of these 2 events - the person will be feeling - and chemically be in exactly the same state - as when they started ?!

FFS - you talk nonsense sometimes. Destroys the good point you often make.

Scenario 1

Guy is told to bake a pie at gunpoint according to the instructions, which he does to the letter.

Scenario 2

Guy bakes pie because he wants to, according to the same instructions

Difference in pie - none.

[northwestsmith2]

Housing is too expensive, I was thinking about moving onto housing benefit.

We get a retention bonus in addition to weighting because the area is too expensive otherwise, it's still not really worth it

in monetary terms but for physical and mental well being I need full time employment as do many. It gives you an identity

and people to meet each day.

[The Generation Game]

Make yourself a curry from scratch. And on another day get one from a takeaway.

Everyone knows the one you put 3 hours of effort into will taste better. Who knows why.

Come round my house. I'll cook you a curry and see if you still agree with that. As you haven't made the curry you'll think the takeaway one is better. As I'll have made the curry I'll KNOW the takeaway one is better.

[ccc]

Erm I explicitly said your brain is changing the taste based on your belief. Change the belief, the taste will change - but it's ****** all to do with work or the food.

Scenario 1

Guy is told to bake a pie at gunpoint according to the instructions, which he does to the letter.

Scenario 2

Guy bakes pie because he wants to, according to the same instructions

Difference in pie - none.

No - we are talking about the difference in TASTE of the pie. Not the pie itself. You are trying to twist it so you don't have to admit you were wrong.

So you realise that is a serious charachter flaw - the inability to admit when you are wrong ?

Now as you brought up Chemistry - and I am sure now wished you had not - answer me this simple question:

Can chemicals released by the brain due to certain circumstances have a DIRECT physical affect on the human body. Yes or no.

Come round my house. I'll cook you a curry and see if you still agree with that. As you haven't made the curry you'll think the takeaway one is better. As I'll have made the curry I'll KNOW the takeaway one is better.

Your curry is exempt from the experiment !!!

[Injin]

No - we are talking about the difference in TASTE of the pie. Not the pie itself. You are trying to twist it so you don't have to admit you were wrong.

So you realise that is a serious charachter flaw - the inability to admit when you are wrong ?

Now as you brought up Chemistry - and I am sure now wished you had not - answer me this simple question:

Can chemicals released by the brain due to certain circumstances have a DIRECT physical affect on the human body. Yes or no.

In this context you are performing a service for someone else.

The customer at the local curryhouse doesn't care if it took 15 hours of loving care or it arrived by wand waving - for him it'll taste the same.

And to ask if chemicals can have a direct effect misses cause - the way you use your brain causes the chamicals to release. Alter the use, and the chemicals alter.

[wonderpup]

Do you not understand that perhaps, just perhaps there are more than one reason behind things ? That perhaps - yes shock horror, incentives AND laziness are both involved in the issues we have today ?

And if it rained gold nuggets on the council estates of britan, do you really believe for one moment that the 'lazy' people there would not be out in the street working their nuts off to pick up as many as they could?

You are mixing apples and oranges here. 'Laziness' is a moral concept- 'incentives' is not. Trying to conflate the two is the root of your confusion.

Think about it for one second- what is moral about a guy who is paid a million quid a year to do a job demanding a bonus?

Your attachment to the notion that the lower classes are lazy is pure stockholm syndrome- the elite have been pumping out this propaganda since the industrial revolution- you've just internalised your masters voice. Good doggy.