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A Dose Of Reality On Pensions From The Wail !

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Retirement was originally seen as a brief period of respite, with a pension from the state or an employer so it could be lived out with a degree of dignity.

At some point, that morphed into a vision of long, sunlit decades of cruises, golf and endless leisure.

The problem is that it is a fantasy. Many individuals are harbouring expectations they have no hope of realising; unions are colluding with them and politicians are reluctant to confront voters with facts. Thinking on pensions needs an urgent injection of realism.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/article-1365426/SUNDERLAND-ON-SATURDAY-Time-real-pensions.html

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Retirement was originally seen as a brief period of respite, with a pension from the state or an employer so it could be lived out with a degree of dignity.

At some point, that morphed into a vision of long, sunlit decades of cruises, golf and endless leisure.

The problem is that it is a fantasy. Many individuals are harbouring expectations they have no hope of realising; unions are colluding with them and politicians are reluctant to confront voters with facts. Thinking on pensions needs an urgent injection of realism.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/article-1365426/SUNDERLAND-ON-SATURDAY-Time-real-pensions.html

When retirement was a brief period of respite the people who were retireing and getting a state pension had during their working life and retirement life paid very little in taxes.

The Govenments colluded with them at the point that retirement morphed into a vision of long , sunlit decades of cruises , golf and endless leisure. The govenemets took more and more in taxes and created new taxes all the time . If this new tax money had been put aside and invested there would be no problem in paying the pensions , however the govements did not put the money aside they wasted it hoping that the taxes paid in the future would pay the pensions . The realism is now upon us and the govenements now want to cut the pensions . Funny thing is they will not be cutting their own but increasing them.

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I'd be more than happy to receive my Armed Forces pension at 60 if they change my contract and let me serve till I'm 60. As it is my 22 years service will be up when I reach 45. The extensions they can currently give are not guaranteed.

I have to be over 50 to have the luxury of being able to successfully pass my 2.4km run in a longer time than an 18 year old female so fitness shouldn't be an issue in staying till 60.

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I'd be more than happy to receive my Armed Forces pension at 60 if they change my contract and let me serve till I'm 60. As it is my 22 years service will be up when I reach 45. The extensions they can currently give are not guaranteed.

I have to be over 50 to have the luxury of being able to successfully pass my 2.4km run in a longer time than an 18 year old female so fitness shouldn't be an issue in staying till 60.

...under the recent changes on retirement you should be able to carry on...worth challenging.... :)

Edited by South Lorne

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I'd be more than happy to receive my Armed Forces pension at 60 if they change my contract and let me serve till I'm 60. As it is my 22 years service will be up when I reach 45. The extensions they can currently give are not guaranteed.

I have to be over 50 to have the luxury of being able to successfully pass my 2.4km run in a longer time than an 18 year old female so fitness shouldn't be an issue in staying till 60.

Makes sense.

As things stand, you get the opportunity to make a whole second career. Friend of mine is retiring in the next week from his second job after the navy. Changing his porsche every two years is just one little part of a very rich (not to mention generous) persons lifestyle.

Edited by porca misèria

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When retirement was a brief period of respite the people who were retireing and getting a state pension had during their working life and retirement life paid very little in taxes.

The Govenments colluded with them at the point that retirement morphed into a vision of long , sunlit decades of cruises , golf and endless leisure. The govenemets took more and more in taxes and created new taxes all the time . If this new tax money had been put aside and invested there would be no problem in paying the pensions , however the govements did not put the money aside they wasted it hoping that the taxes paid in the future would pay the pensions . The realism is now upon us and the govenements now want to cut the pensions . Funny thing is they will not be cutting their own but increasing them.

Well the basic State pension was never going to provide sunny decades of cruises etc since it is set at a level below the governments own poverty line ( a situation I was interested to note existed from its very inception under the Liberals in the Edwardian era).

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Makes sense.

As things stand, you get the opportunity to make a whole second career. Friend of mine is retiring in the next week from his second job after the navy. Changing his porsche every two years is just one little part of a very rich (not to mention generous) persons lifestyle.

That's why afps75 was closed. Completely ridiculous terms given that most live on for a long time creaming it from two incomes. I don't particularly care though, as that is small beer compared to the money pits this country has.

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Well the basic State pension was never going to provide sunny decades of cruises etc since it is set at a level below the governments own poverty line ( a situation I was interested to note existed from its very inception under the Liberals in the Edwardian era).

Im not just talking about the state pension nor was the artical . The Mail was talking about public sector pensions gained from a lifetime enrolled in a scheme that promised to pay out when they retired.

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Im not just talking about the state pension nor was the artical . The Mail was talking about public sector pensions gained from a lifetime enrolled in a scheme that promised to pay out when they retired.

The thing is though your average public pension wouldn't fund their retirement & decades of sunny cruises. It never has done. Historically the public pension schemes have been a poor relation to the private pension. But lets forget that in the race to the bottom :rolleyes:

Even if I can claim my forces pension at 45 I still fully expect to work till I drop when I leave.

Edited by Donk

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The thing is though your average public pension wouldn't fund their retirement & decades of sunny cruises. It never has done. Historically the public pension schemes have been a poor relation to the private pension. But lets forget that in the race to the bottom :rolleyes:

Even if I can claim my forces pension at 45 I still fully expect to work till I drop when I leave.

I would dissagree with that . How can final salary schemes in the public sector be a poor relation to final salary schemes in the private sector ? They are both based on x amount of years worked and the salary acheived at the year of retirement. Public sector have been retiring at 60 not 65 so have been getting their pensions five years before private sector after paying in for five years less.

I have more than a few older members in my family who have had excellent public sector pensions. One example was a school teacher who after 33 years teaching at 55 took a retirement on full pension and has been getting it index linked for the last 27 years. This kind of pension is unafordable but that is what she was promised and that is what she is getting . Public sector workers today have been offered less than these kind of golden pensions however the biggest problem with all the public sector schemes is the fact that the money was never put aside and invested . That is why there is such a big problem.

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Maybe you’re right and I'm wrong. Maybe I've been institutionalised after 10 years in the Armed Forces. But to me the average public pension of £7800 isn't enough to retire on.

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Maybe you're right and I'm wrong. Maybe I've been institutionalised after 10 years in the Armed Forces. But to me the average public pension of £7800 isn't enough to retire on.

add in £5000 state pension and it is plenty - total of over £12,000, which without commuting and work costs, and with tax breaks, is sufficient to live comfortably if frugally

£7800 pension would require a lump sum of getting on for £200,000 in order to retire on this at 65

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That may well be the average but I strongly suspect the average afps75 pension to be much higher. What is striking is that I know guys who have or are about to retire after their 22, but with barely any savings. I mean, after all the perks and savings accumulated by being in the military for so long, some guys have barely £50k saved up (they mostly think it is a huge sum so I don't make any comment). Alludes a bit to an above poster, many people just spend what they have and assume that future income is guaranteed. It is not.

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Maybe you’re right and I'm wrong. Maybe I've been institutionalised after 10 years in the Armed Forces. But to me the average public pension of £7800 isn't enough to retire on.

And some of the private pensions are even smaller .

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And so are some public pensions. hence the word "average".

But in post 9 you told us that average public sector pensions were the poor relation to private pensions pensions I was just pointing out that they were not .

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But in post 9 you told us that average public sector pensions were the poor relation to private pensions pensions I was just pointing out that they were not .

Historically yes. It's only recently that it hasn't been the case or did the pension holidays that corporations took due to surpluses in the 80's and 90's not happen in the private sector?

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Historically yes. It's only recently that it hasn't been the case or did the pension holidays that corporations took due to surpluses in the 80's and 90's not happen in the private sector?

The corporations started taking pension holidays when the tory govenment started taxing any surpluses in the private pensions. ( labour always get the blame for destroying private pensions when they taxed the dividends earn't on shares held in private pensions , but very little is ever said about the torys taxing the surpluses ) .

That aside the public sector final salary pensions were never the poor relation to private sector final salary pensions , as I said they were both based on final salarys and years worked .

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I'd be more than happy to receive my Armed Forces pension at 60 if they change my contract and let me serve till I'm 60. As it is my 22 years service will be up when I reach 45. The extensions they can currently give are not guaranteed.

I have to be over 50 to have the luxury of being able to successfully pass my 2.4km run in a longer time than an 18 year old female so fitness shouldn't be an issue in staying till 60.

are you sying that a 49 year old male has to be better over 2,4 km than 18yr old female? How is this worked out ? Just interested? What if the 18 yr old is former squadie Kelly Holmes .......

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The 2.4km times take the piss, regardless of your age/sex, they are astoundingly easy to pass. That is, just to pass it. The challenge is usually getting into the "excellent" grade, as opposed to good or very good. From recollection it is 8.45 for all men under 30. The plain pass is about 11 minutes!

If you think that is a piss take, check out the fitness tests for the police or fire fighters, quite scary really.

To be fair, it's just a test to pick up the fatties and put them on warnings.

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The final salary aspect is the thing that makes it too generous. For example in banking someone might start as a bank teller. Then move up very gradually, and become a lender. Then after a decade as a lender, maybe become a senior lender. And for last five years of their career be at the top of the pay bracket for a senior lender.

This is a pretty ordinary career in banking. Like not even moving up the management or into the senior administration.. or the big stuff like commercial and corporate lending.

Anyway a senior lender often makes around £60k a year in salary, plus a large bonus depending on performance. And the final salary pays out at least 75% of the salary.. so £45k a year in retirement. Nowadays that retirement could easily be 25 years. Which is £1,100,000 pounds.

Edited by aa3

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The 2.4km times take the piss, regardless of your age/sex, they are astoundingly easy to pass. That is, just to pass it. The challenge is usually getting into the "excellent" grade, as opposed to good or very good. From recollection it is 8.45 for all men under 30. The plain pass is about 11 minutes!

If you think that is a piss take, check out the fitness tests for the police or fire fighters, quite scary really.

To be fair, it's just a test to pick up the fatties and put them on warnings.

what benefit is there in getting an excellent grade? What happens to the fatties in the end?

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what benefit is there in getting an excellent grade? What happens to the fatties in the end?

There is no benefit in getting a better grade, there are only 4 grades Pass,Good,very good & Excellent other than a bit of personal pride and being healthier it doesnt matter. Repeated failures can get you booted out.

Edited by Donk

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Maybe I've been institutionalised after 10 years in the Armed Forces.

Have you seriously considered the Australian Defence Force?, no comparison when it comes to pay and conditions. Depending on your area of expertise you could be a shoe in.

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