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Only following the precedent set by the big high street names who set up off-shore trusts in tax havens to own the stores we shop in as one example. If you cant beat them join them and all that.... Its up to the Govt to close these loopholes if they really want to....

Big Co off shore head office tax dodging should be stopped! It's totally wrong. None of the Co's would remove themselves from the UK.

The expose on the Green empire sending £1.2 billion offshore in a tax dodge dividend is a scandal. I have no problem with Co'S AND individuals making millions and even billions, but they should pay a fair share of tax. That money should not have been allowed to leave the country without being taxed first. Try it in the USA and you will be stopped. We are suckers here. I suppose the company will claim they would disappear if we taxed them properly. *olloc**

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Just introduce a flat rate transaction tax on all Sterling transactions and then scrap all not LVT taxes.

Impossible to evade and mininal collection costs.

Parties could then compete on the basis of what rate of transaction tax they'd need to charge and not be allowed to run a defecit, if governments overspend or the services start to diminish then they can be punished at the next election.

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So why are so many American companies routing revenues thru' Ireland etc?

They are not routing US sales revenues through Ireland.

Also there is an argument going on at the moment in the US that at present if they repatriate it to the US then they have to pay taxes on it. The Big Co's are arguing that if this money was not taxed by the US then they would bring it back to America from the Caymens and invest it in America and create jobs.

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They have also moved their data centre to Ireland which has been a disaster so far. The site went down today (Saturday) at 2.30 and is still down. Typcial of the short termist attitude of British business.

So the site never went down when it was based in Britain, or generally British datacentres have a better record than those in Ireland? Not sure what your point is here.

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So the site never went down when it was based in Britain, or generally British datacentres have a better record than those in Ireland? Not sure what your point is here.

No it's always had its share of problems but they've got worse recently. I wasn't making an anti-Irish point if that's what you think.

Betfair are a British company, and it's mainly British punters and traders who have made them what they are today - but they only care about the share price now . I used to be a real fan of Betfair, and recommended them to loads of people. It's a shame when a company sells it's soul for the bottom line - they have a virtual monopoly so it's not competition that has forced these changes on them, just greed.

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Sales tax time?

Charge per transaction for companies not based in uk.

So you can buy your jersey CDs cheap but there's a charge added on that goes straight to the govt...

Be nightmare for admin but got to take tax somewhere.

Would maybe support uk based compainee who do pay tax?

Loads of problems with it mainly we get charged more...

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No it's always had its share of problems but they've got worse recently. I wasn't making an anti-Irish point if that's what you think.

From the services section of the forum

Betfair Customer Services 24 Nov 10

Following completion of the trial yesterday cross-matching will now be turned on for all in-play win markets on British, Irish and Meydan Thoroughbred horseracing from November 24th.

Since that started we had reduced business due to race meetings being abandoned etc. Now a full program has resumed the site seems incapable of working efficiently on a Saturday. After the downtime today the football was back up but horse racing remained down. Fasten your seatbelts for Cheltenham next week, it's going to be a bumpy ride.

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Betfair is now light years away from the original business that attracted so many people.

Only recently they were made to stop TV advertising that implied they were a true Person 2 Person betting site.

Professional punter Harry Findlay who was the public face of Betfair extolling it's virtues at every opportunity has been exposed as being a heavy loser who owes Betfair fortunes. He was banned by the British Horseracing Authority for betting against his own horse via Betfair!

Betfair have been exposed as operating in running horserace markets where punters get their bets taken after their selections have lost.

Betfair have alliances with trading funds who provide much of it's liquidity, these funds operate with significant technological advantages aided by betfair to the detriment of average customers

Betfair spend all day censoring their own forum in order to keep the lid ona ll this and tonnes more stuff!

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Betfair is now light years away from the original business that attracted so many people.

Only recently they were made to stop TV advertising that implied they were a true Person 2 Person betting site.

Professional punter Harry Findlay who was the public face of Betfair extolling it's virtues at every opportunity has been exposed as being a heavy loser who owes Betfair fortunes. He was banned by the British Horseracing Authority for betting against his own horse via Betfair!

Betfair have been exposed as operating in running horserace markets where punters get their bets taken after their selections have lost.

Betfair have alliances with trading funds who provide much of it's liquidity, these funds operate with significant technological advantages aided by betfair to the detriment of average customers

Betfair spend all day censoring their own forum in order to keep the lid ona ll this and tonnes more stuff!

Where were they exposed about punters having bets taken after their selections had lost?

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I spend a LOT of time on Betfair, and I have to say that it's just about the worst 'major' site I have ever come across.

People struggle to log in, they have frequent downtimes, certain features don't work in certain browsers, markets load slowly....the list really does go on and on.

I know it's a technically challenging site, but it's woefully bad.

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Where were they exposed about punters having bets taken after their selections had lost?

Everyday they offer in running markets on British horseracing. The markets are not suspended until the runners have passed the winning post on the two satellite channels Attheraces and Racing UK. Unfortunately for punters betting watching these pictures the transmission is deliberately delayed by the broadcasters. This means that punters are betting on a race that has actually finished!

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Big Co off shore head office tax dodging should be stopped! It's totally wrong. None of the Co's would remove themselves from the UK.

The expose on the Green empire sending £1.2 billion offshore in a tax dodge dividend is a scandal. I have no problem with Co'S AND individuals making millions and even billions, but they should pay a fair share of tax. That money should not have been allowed to leave the country without being taxed first. Try it in the USA and you will be stopped. We are suckers here. I suppose the company will claim they would disappear if we taxed them properly. *olloc**

Lots of companies in the US, about 90% of them in fact, set up shop in Delaware because it has no corporate income tax.

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In the 1980s Gibraltar earned big money sanctions-busting to places like apartheid South Africa. Gibraltarian export permits didn't have to say where the goods are going. This was before my time on The Rock but I'm told the place was full of Land Rovers waiting to be shipped out to Africa. The release of Nelson Mandela was very bad for business.

In the 1990s Gibraltar switched to earning a fortune from people smuggling and drug running across the Straits. Black speed boats would leave Gibraltar on a 'fishing trip' in the middle of the night, do the run between Morocco and Spain and then return to Gibraltar with some souvenir bullet holes from the Spanish and Maroc authorities. Not only were the authorities in Gibraltar aware of this practice; they were indirectly involved in it. Here's an old article:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/fears-grow-over-gibraltars-drugrunners-1389531.html

Since 2000, Gibraltar has switched its attention to the online gambling industry. The Moroccan and Spanish navies were getting pretty good at blasting the speedboats out of the water - which was particularly embarrassing when they were crewed by Gibraltarian policemen, soldiers or the relative of local politicians. The harder-to-hit jet-skis were less profitable. A new financial district was built on reclaimed land in the harbour to accommodate companies rushing to the Rock to avoid scrutiny, regulation and tax. This industry evolved out of Gibraltar's long-established reputation for money laundering and tax evasion.

Don't believe any of the old nonsense about red telephone boxes and English pubs. This isn't Britain on the Mediterranean. Gibraltar is a banana republic and continues to be a magnet for international crime. I will not be doing business Betfair.

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The move is a little more complex than all going to gib, as there are the Australian and Maltese licenses as well. But not that Malta means much either.

But Betfair casino has been Gib licensed for sometime and was rogued by casinomeister back in December I think. Usual story of the marketing people not understanding what they were giving away, and Betfair confiscating winnings when they figured out how much they'd been taken for.

The industry has always been the wild west, but last year or so has been insane, books are falling all over the place, and UK players kicked out of the EU books on a more or less weekly basis.

For small rec bets it probably doesn't matter so much, follow the line. But for real action action I wouldn't play anywhere other than pinny.

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The move is a little more complex than all going to gib, as there are the Australian and Maltese licenses as well. But not that Malta means much either.

But Betfair casino has been Gib licensed for sometime and was rogued by casinomeister back in December I think. Usual story of the marketing people not understanding what they were giving away, and Betfair confiscating winnings when they figured out how much they'd been taken for.

The industry has always been the wild west, but last year or so has been insane, books are falling all over the place, and UK players kicked out of the EU books on a more or less weekly basis.

For small rec bets it probably doesn't matter so much, follow the line. But for real action action I wouldn't play anywhere other than pinny.

What is "pinny"

Edited by HeathMan

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Everyday they offer in running markets on British horseracing. The markets are not suspended until the runners have passed the winning post on the two satellite channels Attheraces and Racing UK. Unfortunately for punters betting watching these pictures the transmission is deliberately delayed by the broadcasters. This means that punters are betting on a race that has actually finished!

I agree that the suspension of races is questionable - on ATR the winner goes 1.01 but on terrestrial it doesn't. This implies on ATR people KNOW the result due to the delay. The same conclusion can be drawn from the high price that the runner-up goes to on ATR even in a desperately close finish.

Some the things missing from your earlier post that wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes in the Betfair forum:

Betfair now do hospitality suites on course where customers must have a time advantage compared to at home in-running punters.

Premium Charge - Betfair take a 20% cut from consistent winners (people with an advantage?). Anything goes?

Betfair now have their pre-race prices displayed on ATR and the presenters often refer to in-running prices after the race - of course only the losing side of these in-running prices would typically be available to ATR in-running players due to the delay.

Any views on cross matching?

I dare not view this website using anything other than Firefox with No Script and Ad Blocker so your shockwave link is blocked. What was in it?

Edited by Redhat Sly

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I agree that the suspension of races is questionable - on ATR the winner goes 1.01 but on terrestrial it doesn't. This implies on ATR people KNOW the result due to the delay. The same conclusion can be drawn from the high price that the runner-up goes to on ATR even in a desperately close finish.

Some the things missing from your earlier post that wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes in the Betfair forum:

Betfair now do hospitality suites on course where customers must have a time advantage compared to at home in-running punters.

Premium Charge - Betfair take a 20% cut from consistent winners (people with an advantage?). Anything goes?

Betfair now have their pre-race prices displayed on ATR and the presenters often refer to in-running prices after the race - of course only the losing side of these in-running prices would typically be available to ATR in-running players due to the delay.

Any views on cross matching?

I dare not view this website using anything other than Firefox with No Script and Ad Blocker so your shockwave link is blocked. What was in it?

Betfair, ATR, SIS et al. are all earning bonus profits from people betting in running. This is all financed in the end by punters betting in situations where they have already effectively lost. If a casino had a roulette wheel skewed in this way it would not be allowed. It's not sharp ractice it's theft. A few years ago Atheraces slipped up and started broadcasting pictures without an artificial delay on a sky red button sub channel. As soon as they realised what they had done they reinstigated the delay. If Betfair were to suspend their markets when the race really finished stay at home punters would see the race suspend on their Betfair screen 150 yards before the race ended on their telly :lol:

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Betfair, ATR, SIS et al. are all earning bonus profits from people betting in running. This is all financed in the end by punters betting in situations where they have already effectively lost. If a casino had a roulette wheel skewed in this way it would not be allowed. It's not sharp ractice it's theft. A few years ago Atheraces slipped up and started broadcasting pictures without an artificial delay on a sky red button sub channel. As soon as they realised what they had done they reinstigated the delay. If Betfair were to suspend their markets when the race really finished stay at home punters would see the race suspend on their Betfair screen 150 yards before the race ended on their telly :lol:

You make it sound like ATR Extra lasted a day instead of 6 months. It was very nice while it lasted B) Sadly early and mid-race liquidity now are nowhere near as good. Who can blame people not wanting to leave bets up that will be picked off? The matched figure may not reflect that because so much is now matched at the end of the race on short prices.

Edited by Redhat Sly

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You make it sound like ATR Extra lasted a day instead of 6 months. It was very nice while it lasted B) Sadly early and mid-race liquidity now are nowhere near as good. Who can blame people not wanting to leave bets up that will be picked off? The matched figure may not reflect that because so much is now matched at the end of the race on short prices.

ATR Extra never lasted 6 months with a quicker stream :(

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When do you think it started and finished?

06-03-2006 At The Races focused on the end-product, not in-running betting

Matthew Imi, Chief Executive of the race broadcaster, said there is no commercial upside for the firm to alter the pictures' time delay. Imi was responding to speculation on the Betfair forum where exchange punters hoped the time delay between SIS and At The Races could be reduced from the usual two-second gap.

"We're more concerned with better picture quality. ATR viewers get very high-quality pictures with no picture break-up or pixelation," Imi told the Racing Post.

"In any case, even at its most pronounced the difference between betting shop pictures and ATR is two seconds, so this is a non-issue. We certainly don't have thousands of customers ringing up every day to complain about it."

The Racing Post's Matt Williams said time delay problems are a major cause for concern for the majority of exchange punters.

"I'm sure in-running markets could be helped by levelling the playing field," he said. "Why would anybody want their pockets picked by punters privileged to a faster feed?"

"Some exchange bettors carry on punting regardless, whereas other, greener, in-running punters are oblivious to the speed differences."

"It's ATR's prerogative to go for picture quality ahead of speed, but I'd like to see some acknowledgement from them, in terms of a daily reminder, that their pictures are delayed by however many seconds;" he added.

Betfair's Director of Field Marketing, Josh Apiafi, said it would be better for everybody if the delay wasn't so great.

"In a perfect world, ATR pictures would be as fast as SIS."

However, he added: "As long as punters know what the time delay equates to on the Flat and over jumps, we don't see it as a problem. And in-running players tend to be more experienced than non in-running punters."

Few weeks ago, Betfair extended the in-play time delays on Spanish soccer games from 5 to 8 seconds after that the firm's research shown that some Spanish TV stations provide pictures delayed by up to five seconds.

Betfair always stated that transmissions described as live by some broadcasters may actually be delayed, but decided to take action to ensure that both backers and layers are protected when betting in-play on Spanish soccer markets.

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  • 315 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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