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guitarman001

Better Life Renting?

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Just looking at my friends who bought near peak, in lots of debt, denial about their situation - some want to move closer to work due to ptrol costs but their flats have gone down in price and are finding it hard to get mortgages. Even then you'd have to consider the cost of moving which is massive compared with the cost o fmoving if you just rented. They are locked down.

My girlfriend has a flat paid off. I've been seriously saying to her now that perhaps... even if prices did crash here... we would have a far better life if we moved around the globe with my job for a while, just renting. Spare money can be saved/invested and we would always have a base to come back to. 3 years in the US, 3 in Europe etc etc... imagine the varied life you will have had! And it will have been good for my career, no doubt. What do you reckon? Happier life renting around the globe as opposed to buying in Blighty?

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Do it. Sell your shares at whatever loss and go. The way things are looking, the world may be ending by next year anyway (erranta what's your view on this! :blink: )

In all seriousness you only live once. Many people have already left this country due to the absurd living costs, which are about to get much much worse. Nothing is stopping you, the bars are all in your mind.

Edit: And yeah we all have friends who bought just before or after peak, who cares, that's their problem.

Edited by Cash with Nowhere to Go

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Just looking at my friends who bought near peak, in lots of debt, denial about their situation - some want to move closer to work due to ptrol costs but their flats have gone down in price and are finding it hard to get mortgages. Even then you'd have to consider the cost of moving which is massive compared with the cost o fmoving if you just rented. They are locked down.

My girlfriend has a flat paid off. I've been seriously saying to her now that perhaps... even if prices did crash here... we would have a far better life if we moved around the globe with my job for a while, just renting. Spare money can be saved/invested and we would always have a base to come back to. 3 years in the US, 3 in Europe etc etc... imagine the varied life you will have had! And it will have been good for my career, no doubt. What do you reckon? Happier life renting around the globe as opposed to buying in Blighty?

Nothing to compare. Freedom from a concrete necklace. Just go and see the world. You are only young once. The opportunity may not arise again. Go for it now! ;)

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Nothing to compare. Freedom from a concrete necklace. Just go and see the world. You are only young once. The opportunity may not arise again. Go for it now! ;)

Agreed

I actually like living in the UK but I've lived in Asia and North America too.

If you'd done this 15 years ago then you'd come back and feel "locked out" of the property market.

If you do it now, you might not come back but if you do, I believe property prices will either be flat (because of the government doing everything it can to stop them falling) or they will have fallen. So opportunity cost = zero and upside = huge.

Send me a postcard!

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Nothing to compare. Freedom from a concrete necklace. Just go and see the world. You are only young once. The opportunity may not arise again. Go for it now! ;)

depends how old his missis is and if she wants kids. you need to put roots down for 1-2 years BEFORE she pops em out. That means you have to choose where you want to be by the time the female gets to 32-33.

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Nothing to compare. Freedom from a concrete necklace. Just go and see the world. You are only young once. The opportunity may not arise again. Go for it now! ;)

You are closer to the truth than you realise. In ten years time South-east asians will be back-packing through 'cheap' Western Europe.

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I was going to start a thread on jobs in the UK today but itk ind of ties in what the OP is talking about.

Re the OP - I am thinking more and more of doing the same. I am in the situation where the work I do simply does not exist in Wales but I can earn a very good wage working in London, Europe and further afield where my skills are in demand.

I was out looking at houses this week and my heart just sank looking at that stuff that wanted near 300K which were wrecks inside. EAs kept telling me that they were 'long-term projects' but life is for living and my work means I need to come home to a place to chill and not have to stress out doing up a house - especially for that money. OK if you work 2 miles down the road as a teacher or in the local Council office I suppose.

I know many a widow whose husband died trying to work his job and then work all his spare hours as a builder, decorator, garderner, etc, etc.

So my advice to the OP, for what it is worth, is to go. Do it.

I wanted to post this morning about the jobs market and what HPCers are seeing. It is now mid-March and a new financial year is almost upon us. Those who are self-employed know that this time of year is the time when contracts are normally buoyant.

There seems very little out there currently in the IT and Engineering fields.

What are others seeing? Are more of you beginning to think like the OP and just upping sticks?

I spoke to an IT contractor last week who moved from Manchester to London expecting to get more work but he says he is shocked by how, outside of the City banks, little work is in London.

It seems that the Public Sector cuts have just given a huge whammy to the private sector market - which many on here envisaged would happen.

Again to the OP, just do it.

p.s.

This is not emigration advice! LOL!

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I wanted to post this morning about the jobs market and what HPCers are seeing. It is now mid-March and a new financial year is almost upon us. Those who are self-employed know that this time of year is the time when contracts are normally buoyant.

There seems very little out there currently in the IT and Engineering fields.

What are others seeing? Are more of you beginning to think like the OP and just upping sticks?

Same as always dominated by fake agency jobs. The jobs that are advertised directly they want far too many requirements for bog all money. NMW has become the defacto wage for many jobs I've seen...

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To the OP - your post has fairly brightened up my morning! Too often, I come along to this site and leave feeling a bit frustrated and cross at the situation which prevails in our nation and I'd never stopped to think about how genuinely free we are - not being prisoners of the property pyramid. I sincerely and genuinely wish you the best on your adventures, should you chose to undertake them - I'm lucky to have travelled a lot in my life and know the value of seeing the world and reconnecting with the human state. I wish you all the best and I'll pay my rent next month with a little smile - as I know that we aren't the slaves! :)

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Same as always dominated by fake agency jobs. The jobs that are advertised directly they want far too many requirements for bog all money. NMW has become the defacto wage for many jobs I've seen...

In the past 2 months a series of IT contracts have appeared on the job boards for mostly public sector, but the odd financial, in Wales.

The list of skills they require is extraordinary. A fellow IT guy said that they appear to want to "own" the person.

Several of the roles have looked like killer stress roles. What has been interesting is that when they first advertise the roles it is usually as part of a team along with some analyst and some management type roles. These appear to be filled up quickly but the actually hands-on technical roles get re-advertised time and time again. In this recession either they are super picky, either they just can't find someone with all the long list of requirements or simply experienced IT people are staying away.

This role is a case in point:

http://www.jobserve.com/Infrastructure-Analyst-Cardiff-Contract-W80C725DD41A8A5B5.jsjob

It is for something called an 'Infrastructure Analyst' but it appears to be a mix of at least 5 roles - analyst, 3rd line support, partly project manager, network guy and also technical architect.

And they want the person to work on an on-call rota. Look at the skills they want. And SC of course.

The above keeps being advertised. As I said, several IT guys I know have looked at it and described it as a killer.

When you look at roles in places like Germany, Holland, Middle East, other EU countries they seem far more realistic in what they want.

I know more and more IT guys thinking like the OP and seriously considering getting out now. Just follow the work around, live in different countries and forget about this HP madness here.

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depends how old his missis is and if she wants kids. you need to put roots down for 1-2 years BEFORE she pops em out. That means you have to choose where you want to be by the time the female gets to 32-33.

My wife is 32 and we got married and moved in together 1.5 years ago. Are you trying to tell me something?

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Lots of good replies! If you've followed my angst-ridden thread over the years you'll know I almost bought a few years ago at 4.5x salary. Would have been financial suicide... as I then proceeded to quit my awful PhD and get a real engineering job. Then I discovered this site and what a breath of fresh air. My current workplace is excellent - the people are great, the atmosphere is great - UK engineering wages could be better but in general I am happy with my current job. I toyed with the idea of going into marketing/sales/business/project management but I think I will stick to retaining some real engineering skills - it's interesting!

I know many places have cons but as Masked Tulip says, life is for living. The cost of housing here is horrendous. In fact the cost of everything is horrendous! The weather in Scotland is horrendous... and I do not need to summarise all the other negative aspects of Britain to you guys (one of the worst is the anti-social behaviour I see and degradation of intellectual thought in Scotland)! Sure there are great parts, but surely it can only be good to go out and see some other places - whenever I hear about somebody moving to Canada or Germany or whatever I always think how awesome that is - they'll have some real stories to tell in future. Not shackled by an over-expensive home. Even if values fall, is that justification for staying?

Now I post threads like this often - this is obviously on my mind! I'm not saying this is an immediate thing - I need at least another year or so in my current job to see how progression goes, and to get more experience. But perhaps in future it may be the path to take. Many people ARE like slaves here, completely brainwashed! I've travelled to some great places since I started working (Germany being a really beautiful place and powerhouse of engineering) and it really opens the eyes up.

There is this comfort factor and view that renting is not good for long-term financial gain that stops a lot of people from uprooting. Sure it will be a massive adjustment to get used to (moving around different places, that is) - but being young and energetic I view it as a real opportunity (plus job hopping early on can only benefit salary!). In the end, in Britain I will probably be working until I die with little pension anyway - so why not do it in some other places! Lol, I am almost laughing at being able to say that in future I will have worked & rented in Sunnyvale CA, Dresden Germany and so on :)

Oh - my girlfriend is a lot older than me... with family connections!! So that is certainly a factor.

Masked Tulip - engineering is on the up right now in the UK but wages are porr compared to some parasites' jobs. Relative to house prices, forget it. Decaying council properties gor for £120k+ here which is poor - detached houses in decent areas will cost you at least 8x average earnings. I've noticed some job ads trying to undercut wages - and some are VERY specific, which is ridiculous!! One of my friends recently got a job in Holland right.... a year or two older than me (still under 30)... he gets a free car, equivalent of £60k TAX-FREE since it's for the government (in engineering)... it is amazing! Looking at Glassdoor.com at the TI analogue designer salaries they nearly start at the equivalent of £45k! It will take me years to get there! (OK, fewer holidays and poor employment law but whilst young...). And if I ever set up in Germany, I will probably have a better pension over there than I ever will over here.

andybee - what are your goals? To eventually buy here? I relate to your concern regarding the human condition - I LOVE talking to people and just... relating!! I recently finished '1984' and 'Animal Farm' and they mirror our society right now better than ever. Some would say this is crazy talk - I would say they are in denial (and probably socialists).

Every weekend I check to see the price of property here and it is ghastly. Is it REALLY so bad to rent (well, maybe in the UK but it is better abroad!).

I'm sure I had more to say... but you get the gist...

EDIT: MT, what is YOUR plan? If I go through with this it will be in 2 years time, most likely... So expect a few more threads like this! Actually I planned to move to Oz two years ago... decided against at the time... looking at their rates for electrical engineers I almost wish I'd done that than electronics!

Edited by guitarman001

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OP

Just go. You will never ever have this opportunity again. The last 30 years have been a godsend for wannabe travellers and it is about to end.

to paraphrase one of the final scenes from Bladerunner:

I've seen things you wouldn't believe:

Abu simbel.

Climbed onto the great Pyramids.

The never ending summer days of St. Petersburg, Helsinki and Talin.

Held Baby Orangutans in Borneo.

Swam with dolphins in Cuba.

Worked in the Monte-carlo casino with topless dancers. :D

Worked on the QE2 and Oriana.

Been to Napoleon's birthplace, deathplace and resting place.

Climbed mount Kinabalu.

Driven 7,000 miles through the OZ outback.

Worked in Cancun.

Worked in Havana.

Worked in the Canaries.

Worked in the Bahamas.

Worked in Dubai.

Slept in monasteries in Hungary.

Worked in Vienna.

Worked in Florence.

Worked in Sicily.

Worked in Crete.

Worked in Corsica.

Worked in Paris.

etc....

BTW. my car is ten years old, i cycle to work. Seems most people prefer a new X5 to a life. Don't make the same mistake! Memories fade, cars rust.

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Just looking at my friends who bought near peak, in lots of debt, denial about their situation - some want to move closer to work due to ptrol costs but their flats have gone down in price and are finding it hard to get mortgages. Even then you'd have to consider the cost of moving which is massive compared with the cost o fmoving if you just rented. They are locked down.

My girlfriend has a flat paid off. I've been seriously saying to her now that perhaps... even if prices did crash here... we would have a far better life if we moved around the globe with my job for a while, just renting. Spare money can be saved/invested and we would always have a base to come back to. 3 years in the US, 3 in Europe etc etc... imagine the varied life you will have had! And it will have been good for my career, no doubt. What do you reckon? Happier life renting around the globe as opposed to buying in Blighty?

You subconsciously downgrade renting as not being on par with owning.

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EDIT: MT, what is YOUR plan? If I go through with this it will be in 2 years time, most likely... So expect a few more threads like this! Actually I planned to move to Oz two years ago... decided against at the time... looking at their rates for electrical engineers I almost wish I'd done that than electronics!

A friend just told me in the last hour that he thinks that Wales is bad karma for me. He thinks I will never get the roles I deserve in Wales whereas major corporates outside are keen to hire me.

I am in the situation where I can't get work in Wales but I can get offered 6 figures in London, EU countries, etc.

If I could get work in Wales would be a very stressful job as here in Wales the entire mentality is on the public sector middle management types. They get paid incredibly well but they treat engineers and techies as something to look down upon and the salaries are often appalling.

So you often find in a Welsh public setor organisation that you have loads of 'managers' on 50K to 150K doing nothing but attend meetings... and a handful of IT people being paid incredibly low wages - I often see IT roles advertised in Wales for 15K to 20K and they expect the person to know every MS, Cisco, VMWare, Citrix product.

That is the mentality here.

But I was born here. It is my home and the countryside where I live is stunning.

Part of me is envious that I did not get into the public sector 20 years ago. I probably would have a big house and a fat pension by now.

No, I have to get out. I just have to do it.

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depends how old his missis is and if she wants kids. you need to put roots down for 1-2 years BEFORE she pops em out. That means you have to choose where you want to be by the time the female gets to 32-33.

Rubbish. I got missus pregnant when I was 35, had just got back from the life of Riley for a few years in New Zealand after I bailed out when the Tories won in 1992 ( brought her back with me, 19 she was), was doing casual shifts on newspapers. Her getting preggers was a useful catalyst and by the time the kid was born I had a FT job. Didn't buy a house till our second was almost born in 1998 two years later. Did me no harm at all.

To the OP: don't follow anyone's script. If you want to go, get it out of your system, either you'll always regret it or you'll do it later in life at higher risk for all sorts of reasons.

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pie-eater - I know, I know - it's a throwback, didn't mean anything by it!! To be completely honest I've seen up until now... buying as being superior since at the end of the day you wont be paying huge amounts of rent when in old age. But now my mind is turning. Maybe if I were born earlier things may have turned out different; in the UK it seems your fortunes are determined by speculation and time of buy-in, whereas abroad it can be due to betterment through honest work. Guys at my work are mostly older - they're good guys and we all get on. But I'll always still be living at home here whilst they likely bought during a market low - they're better off (from a buy-in point for property if you're into that) and I have to find my own opportunity now. I do subscribe to the thought that we've been conned - not every boomer is doing well (my parents are working class and just get by) but in general long-term decisions for the best were not made.

Memories fade, cars rust... love that :D

Life to me - the happiest times - are all about places you go, experiences, and mostly the people you spend time with. Can you believe one of my friends who is in trouble.. has a FORTY YEAR mortgage (£160k flat, single wage of £30k and girflriend & two kids)!? I ask myself what would I be more envious hearing about... somebody owning a home.. or somebody back from working around the world? I still live at home, pay just £150 rent to my parents each month. But I eat out, have lots of savings, gone on fantastic holidays - have the freedom to easily change jobs etc. I don't think it is this easy if you aspire to own. My friend says he is envious - calls me 'moneybags' lol!

Honestly... I hope proces stagnate for years. If they fall soon, I know I will be tempted to buy.... and if they fall within a few years of moving I may feel I've missed the best opportunity to buy - if I still wanted to! If they stagnate there will be little reason for me staying.

Sorry to get philosophical... but you DO only live once. The trigger point for me will be in a year or two - if I go ahead with it I really could have a lifelong adventure, as such. Just feels like I'm being conned here.

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A friend just told me in the last hour that he thinks that Wales is bad karma for me. He thinks I will never get the roles I deserve in Wales whereas major corporates outside are keen to hire me.

I am in the situation where I can't get work in Wales but I can get offered 6 figures in London, EU countries, etc.

If I could get work in Wales would be a very stressful job as here in Wales the entire mentality is on the public sector middle management types. They get paid incredibly well but they treat engineers and techies as something to look down upon and the salaries are often appalling.

So you often find in a Welsh public setor organisation that you have loads of 'managers' on 50K to 150K doing nothing but attend meetings... and a handful of IT people being paid incredibly low wages - I often see IT roles advertised in Wales for 15K to 20K and they expect the person to know every MS, Cisco, VMWare, Citrix product.

That is the mentality here.

But I was born here. It is my home and the countryside where I live is stunning.

Part of me is envious that I did not get into the public sector 20 years ago. I probably would have a big house and a fat pension by now.

No, I have to get out. I just have to do it.

Sh!t man... you DEFINITELY have to get out. It's horrible thinking about how you could have made more money in the public sector or management - but to hell with them. I prefer honest REAL work any day. Do you have your own family etc? And you're in IT, not engineering?

If there's no work where you are and you can get 6-figure salaries elsewhere, I'd DEFINITELY be out of old Blighty. My job is the key anchor for me right now. Some of the culture is good but some is pretty bad, also. I would DEARLY miss my new little baby sister but we are adults now and decisions for your best future have to be taken - there will always be downsides.

Your situation sounds 'worse' than mine (not that mine is terrible!! My situation is more about prospects than getting out of a bad thing). I prefer EU countries to London, mind you...

It's a disgrace that engineer/IT/techies get little compared to management. Absolute parasites. Where is that good pic about Jose the worker down the whole while the managers are abnove ground telling him what to do lol?

monte - thanks... I do realise doing this before I'm 30 is the best option. Later in life will be much harder. It's a very serious thought hence all my threads (usually one a month) on the subject!

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MT we should back ourselves up on this issue lol...

WE are the future - WE are the welath creators.. let's not be taken for a ride. We should do what's best for us. We should bite the bullet, thrown caution to the wind and take the risks in order to strive for a more fulfilling life.. instead of sitting around mulling about it until we are in our 40s...

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Oh - my girlfriend is a lot older than me... with family connections!!

:blink:

I can only think of 2 ways to read that sentence.

(1) She is a blood relative of yours

(2) She is in the mafia

;)

As we were fortunate enough to have almost paid off our mortgage we'll be looking at renting out our place in England and using the income from it to rent somewhere overseas in a few years time. Nobody ever looks back and says they wish they'd spent more time on a trading estate office in Basingstoke to buy a rabbit hutch.

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Sorry to get philosophical... but you DO only live once. The trigger point for me will be in a year or two - if I go ahead with it I really could have a lifelong adventure, as such. Just feels like I'm being conned here.

Just make sure that if you go, it's because you really want to spend time in the place you go to. The rest of the world is not better (or worse) than the UK. It's just different.

If you go because you think the grass is greener, I fear you will be disappointed. If you go because you'd like to see the world, you'll have a ball.

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Nothing to compare. Freedom from a concrete necklace.

Just go and see the world. You are only young once. The opportunity may not arise again.

Go for it now! ;)

+1+1+1 etc.

Just do it, not a future in UK plc. unless you choose the profession of a life on welfare!

If your educated, ambitious, with a trade, then you have far better options elsewhere.

Go and enjoy it, when you return a home could just be affordable.

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Just make sure that if you go, it's because you really want to spend time in the place you go to. The rest of the world is not better (or worse) than the UK. It's just different.

If you go because you think the grass is greener, I fear you will be disappointed. If you go because you'd like to see the world, you'll have a ball.

Agree with that. I've never lived abroad but have spend several months in lots of the places people tend to emigrate to.

I had a really great time in all of them but I always come back home and appreciate:

(a) Friends and family I have here.

(B) Cost of living - I'm serious that apart from housing and petrol the UK is actually pretty good value compared to other similar countries

© The closeness and ease of access to the rest of the world. For £50 I can get to a huge variety of culturally different places

(d) Cultural stuff - with the advent of the internet and slingboxes etc this is less of an issue but we do entertainment better than anywhere else.

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I was going to start a thread on jobs in the UK today but itk ind of ties in what the OP is talking about.

There seems very little out there currently in the IT and Engineering fields.

What are others seeing? Are more of you beginning to think like the OP and just upping sticks?

I spoke to an IT contractor last week who moved from Manchester to London expecting to get more work but he says he is shocked by how, outside of the City banks, little work is in London.

It seems that the Public Sector cuts have just given a huge whammy to the private sector market - which many on here envisaged would happen.

Again to the OP, just do it.

This is not emigration advice! LOL!

The service sector which is tied to publicly funded contracts are now having a nosedive by all accounts. No wonder the number of new mortgages is falling off a cliff. House prices are now being pulled along as if tied to the same very heavy weight ever closer to the cliff edge too. The gently descending slope has begun with few upswing lumps and bumps on the way down, the only way it can all go. And by George/Mervyn it's going. Mr Clarke was right to say, many have no concept of the down draft that is developing around them this year. Even the *ankers may get a slap in the face before long.

The so called protected frontline parts of public services cannot be immune - that fanatsy is out of the bag. Those having to actually do the budgets will not bother to find the way to do this. They would rather see it all go wrong to 'prove' the cuts should not be imposed. Pathetic, I know, but some people actually think like that. In some cases they are just right. It cannot be done. The NHS is probably one such case in part.

Edited by plummet expert

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....if you keep doing what you are doing, the same old same old.....life will pass you by, life is short.....to get to the next level requires having faith in yourself and to be able to take calculated risks, wanting change means changing......never fear failure. ;)

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  • 276 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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