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Can't See The Wood For The Trees


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Hi all!

I am looking for a crystal ball really but considered opinions really appreciated...this is going to be

a little long winded....

We are looking for a house to live in with at least 2 acres of land to set up a hospitality business

in the Ashdown Forest area.

In October 2010, we offered £100,000 under the asking price on a house very near the forest within a pricey area.

They were asking a princely sum for the house plot plus extra 50k for land which was already on the same title.

It had previously been under offer for (allegedly) close to the full asking price (for both 'plots') but following

a survery the offer was withdrawn. The asking price was not reduced in response to this. From what

we saw without survery we felt the house needed re-wiring, reglazing, partial reroofing and other

non essential cosmetic improvements like new carpets, freshening up of the walls etc.

The house is not listed yet parts date from an 18thC coaching house with shabby weatherboard additions and

a knackered tennis court and barn. The gardens in the main house plot are simply stunning and would

take many years to create and the house is historic and quirky and beautifully situated, both imperative

for our business requirements.

The owners refused our offer and said they were going to apply for planning permission to split the

title to sell the extra land with dilapidated barn seperately from the house.

Now it's March and they have just moved agents and relisted the property as a whole for the original asking

price plus the extra hidden £50K for the barn, effectively marketing it at £50K more, we can only surmise they didn't get

planning permission to split the title and are still holding out for top wedge for the entire property, still at £100K over what we offered.

This property is one of those I can't get out of my head and can envisage living there long term and creating the business

we have been plotting for the past 4 years. We are also finding the properties trickling on to the spring market

with our strict criteria are out of our price range or the land is unsuitable for our business.

Apart from our belief that this house is overpriced, (also Zoopla estimates the property value as lower

than our offer price) - with stamp duty, the obvious repairs and whatever a structural survey reveals

we can't afford it at their asking price. It would need that 100K invested into it anyway.

Are these our only options and what do forum users think we should do;

Hold our nerve and hope that their new agent doesn't get them a sale then approach them and register

our continued interest at our original offer in another month or two.

Do we up our offer by say £20K now and see if they'll bite.

They are obviously not in a hurry to sell and can afford to wait so accept we can't afford this property and move on.

Ackowledge this property is perfect for our business requirements and keep offering until they accept

then limp along in the house until the business is established.

Our current situation - Since our original offer in October we have sold our family home and my old flat from before I married.

We have a large deposit plus HSBC will hold our fantastic tracker mortgage rate until May, we can afford a 2/3% rise in rates at a push.

In two weeks we move into flexible but expensive rental accomodation, all of our stuff is in storage and we are able to move quickly.

Many thanks for taking the time to read and for any advice!

H

Edited by Helenish
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Our current situation - Since our original offer in October we have sold our family home and my old flat from before I married.

We have a large deposit plus HSBC will hold our fantastic tracker mortgage rate until May, we can afford a 2/3% rise in rates at a push.

In two weeks we move into flexible but expensive rental accomodation, all of our stuff is in storage and we are able to move quickly.

Many thanks for taking the time to read and for any advice!

H

Seems like you've set your heart on the place. Obviously the more you offer the higher the likelihood of getting it accepted. However, the fact you are on a fantastic tracker until May (wow - May! How long will you have a mortgage for 2/3 decades?) and that you can only afford a 2/3% rise in base rate rings alarm bells to me. I would look into fixed deals if I were you, I imagine most available will only be for 5 years now and will probably be over your tracker + 2/3%. If that is what the banks are offering for the future and you can't afford those fixed rates, I would think very carefully about buying now.

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Let me clarify the tracker rate until May thing.....HSBC are holding our original rate from our previous property until May (6 months after sale date) which is 0.5 above BOE lifetime tracker....

We could afford 5 or 6% in the long run by giving up a lot of luxuries and maybe a few necessities! (to go with the one's everyone seems to be forfeiting at the moment!)

I hear your words of caution though! Cheers.

Edited by Helenish
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Hi all!

I am looking for a crystal ball really but considered opinions really appreciated...this is going to be

a little long winded....

We are looking for a house to live in with at least 2 acres of land to set up a hospitality business

in the Ashdown Forest area.

In October 2010, we offered £100,000 under the asking price on a house very near the forest within a pricey area.

They were asking a princely sum for the house plot plus extra 50k for land which was already on the same title.

It had previously been under offer for (allegedly) close to the full asking price (for both 'plots') but following

a survery the offer was withdrawn. The asking price was not reduced in response to this. From what

we saw without survery we felt the house needed re-wiring, reglazing, partial reroofing and other

non essential cosmetic improvements like new carpets, freshening up of the walls etc.

The house is not listed yet parts date from an 18thC coaching house with shabby weatherboard additions and

a knackered tennis court and barn. The gardens in the main house plot are simply stunning and would

take many years to create and the house is historic and quirky and beautifully situated, both imperative

for our business requirements.

The owners refused our offer and said they were going to apply for planning permission to split the

title to sell the extra land with dilapidated barn seperately from the house.

Now it's March and they have just moved agents and relisted the property as a whole for the original asking

price plus the extra hidden £50K for the barn, effectively marketing it at £50K more, we can only surmise they didn't get

planning permission to split the title and are still holding out for top wedge for the entire property, still at £100K over what we offered.

This property is one of those I can't get out of my head and can envisage living there long term and creating the business

we have been plotting for the past 4 years. We are also finding the properties trickling on to the spring market

with our strict criteria are out of our price range or the land is unsuitable for our business.

Apart from our belief that this house is overpriced, (also Zoopla estimates the property value as lower

than our offer price) - with stamp duty, the obvious repairs and whatever a structural survey reveals

we can't afford it at their asking price. It would need that 100K invested into it anyway.

Are these our only options and what do forum users think we should do;

Hold our nerve and hope that their new agent doesn't get them a sale then approach them and register

our continued interest at our original offer in another month or two.

Do we up our offer by say £20K now and see if they'll bite.

They are obviously not in a hurry to sell and can afford to wait so accept we can't afford this property and move on.

Ackowledge this property is perfect for our business requirements and keep offering until they accept

then limp along in the house until the business is established.

Our current situation - Since our original offer in October we have sold our family home and my old flat from before I married.

We have a large deposit plus HSBC will hold our fantastic tracker mortgage rate until May, we can afford a 2/3% rise in rates at a push.

In two weeks we move into flexible but expensive rental accomodation, all of our stuff is in storage and we are able to move quickly.

Many thanks for taking the time to read and for any advice!

H

I am going to sound nasty, but if you can't work this out for yourself you have no right trying to be in business. You'll just living in a dream, and I quote, 'fuelled by a decade of property porn'.

BTW, IR will be going up a long way before the crash is done. Oil is now key to the equation, as US and UK cannot fix the price independently. We are going to have to bid for it with the much faster growing economies in the East.

Edited by 888
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888 that does sound nasty for a good reason!

I guess I am musing out loud and was looking for constructive debate, not an attack on my business acumen.

There are options and we are weighing them up, as I have set out.

Right now we can do absolutely nothing but sit tight in a rental with cash on fixed deposit or we can take a punt to move on to the next phase of our lives and that is the rub.

Let me simplify my line of questioning which is really related to the property under discussion not our choice of lifestyle change,

Do people think they are asking too much????

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888 that does sound nasty for a good reason!

I guess I am musing out loud and was looking for constructive debate, not an attack on my business acumen.

There are options and we are weighing them up, as I have set out.

Right now we can do absolutely nothing but sit tight in a rental with cash on fixed deposit or we can take a punt to move on to the next phase of our lives and that is the rub.

Let me simplify my line of questioning which is really related to the property under discussion not our choice of lifestyle change,

Do people think they are asking too much????

Only you can make that decission. The markets, real estate and stock, are both overweight from the money printing still. Everyone knows that. It is a fact no matter how many people tell you otherwise. e.g. the cost of a typical mortgage is >> x3 income.

You have to detach you heart from your head. Your heart simply will feel better if more people told you to go for it then if they suggested that you stay put.

There will be a thousand other reasons why paying a preimum maybe worth it, but you have to isolate and analysis these facts separate to the hard maths.

Although I may sound harsh but if you sit down and think of what I said you will have a clearer head to decide for yourself. I feel you battle is between your heart vs head rather than a economical one.

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You have to detach you heart from your head. Your heart simply will feel better if more people told you to go for it then if they suggested that you stay put.

Tru dat. Think we are going to sit tight for now and see what unfolds after todays interest rate announcement....if someone else buys it so be it, we may negotiate again after the spring bounce.

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Hi all!

I am looking for a crystal ball really but considered opinions really appreciated...this is going to be

a little long winded....

We are looking for a house to live in with at least 2 acres of land to set up a hospitality business

in the Ashdown Forest area.

In October 2010, we offered £100,000 under the asking price on a house very near the forest within a pricey area.

They were asking a princely sum for the house plot plus extra 50k for land which was already on the same title.

It had previously been under offer for (allegedly) close to the full asking price (for both 'plots') but following

a survery the offer was withdrawn. The asking price was not reduced in response to this. From what

we saw without survery we felt the house needed re-wiring, reglazing, partial reroofing and other

non essential cosmetic improvements like new carpets, freshening up of the walls etc.

The house is not listed yet parts date from an 18thC coaching house with shabby weatherboard additions and

a knackered tennis court and barn. The gardens in the main house plot are simply stunning and would

take many years to create and the house is historic and quirky and beautifully situated, both imperative

for our business requirements.

The owners refused our offer and said they were going to apply for planning permission to split the

title to sell the extra land with dilapidated barn seperately from the house.

Now it's March and they have just moved agents and relisted the property as a whole for the original asking

price plus the extra hidden £50K for the barn, effectively marketing it at £50K more, we can only surmise they didn't get

planning permission to split the title and are still holding out for top wedge for the entire property, still at £100K over what we offered.

You don't need planning permission to split the title of two physically unconnected buildings.

tim

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You don't need planning permission to split the title of two physically unconnected buildings.

tim

Wow, I didn't know that Tim, thanks for the heads up!

I wonder then why they have re-marketed the property as a single lot after originally trying to sell it as two, albeit on the single title.....mmmmmmm, food for thought. I guess offering the land seperate was a ploy to advertise under a certain threshold but then make up the difference by adding the £50k for the land. The owner works insuring insurance companies so he aint no dummy......

Edited by Helenish
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  • 434 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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