Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum
Sign in to follow this  
cool_hand

Police Pay Cuts 'unavoidable' Says Home Secretary

Recommended Posts

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12619163

Pay cuts for police officers are essential in order to minimise front-line job losses at forces in England and Wales, the home secretary has said.

Three-quarters of the budget, £11bn, goes on pay, and Theresa May told force leaders in London that must change.

Mrs May said she wanted officers' pay to be frozen for two years along with that of other public sector workers.

Will they tolerate it with inflation running wild?

What happens when the Police go out on strike?

We really are in a mess, when is Merv going to tackle inflation?

Do they really think people will stick this?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We really are in a mess, when is Merv going to tackle inflation?

Do they really think people will stick this?

Thing is, every public sector thinks they're in an invaluable job, if you talk about cuts in the NHS they'll wheel out anecdotes about people dying on trollies in corridors, talk about cuts in the council and they'll talk about rubbish piling up in the streets as a health hazard, same goes for the police.

Cuts need to be made. Fact.

People are happy so long as it doesn't affect them.

If a policeman is called in from home even for a few minutes he's automatically given 4hrs pay. Things like that need to be stopped.

Yet, nobody has an alternate plan, unless it's some histrionic diatribe about "overpaid bankers", which really is a drop in the ocean compared to the problem we face.

Edited by exiges

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Surprises me. I'd have thought they'd want to keep the police sweet for the forthcoming waves of civil unrest. At this rate, they'll start to identify with the people they're Tasering, and that'd never do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cuts need to be made. Fact.

AKA we need to recognise that we're going to have to work harder if we want to keep the same standard of living. True and fair.

Yet, nobody has an alternate plan, unless it's some histrionic diatribe about "overpaid bankers", which really is a drop in the ocean compared to the problem we face.

The point about banker's pay (IMHO) maybe partially symbolic but nevertheless it is going to be critical. People will put up with the changes as long as they see that it's being done fairly. If any elite sector of society tries to hold onto their chunk of the pie, and is allowed to do so, then there will be trouble.

I think this is recognised - the "We're all in it together" is an implicit admission of this, and one can't help but wonder if Mervyn's "Can't understand why people aren't angrier with the bankers" isn't a little shot across the bows...

To put it another way, the focus on 'bankers' is to some extent a generalisation. They are just a very visible group who conveniently are doing very nicely despite having had a large part in creating the mess.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The point about banker's pay (IMHO) maybe partially symbolic but nevertheless it is going to be critical. People will put up with the changes as long as they see that it's being done fairly. If any elite sector of society tries to hold onto their chunk of the pie, and is allowed to do so, then there will be trouble.

I think this is recognised - the "We're all in it together" is an implicit admission of this, and one can't help but wonder if Mervyn's "Can't understand why people aren't angrier with the bankers" isn't a little shot across the bows...

To put it another way, the focus on 'bankers' is to some extent a generalisation. They are just a very visible group who conveniently are doing very nicely despite having had a large part in creating the mess.

We've never been in this together. The fact is a lot of sheeple did very well thank you out of rampant HPI which they all know was due to the same bankers lending excessively. They are expecting the same again sometime soon. That is why they are not up in arms, yet. If or when this starts to effect them they may change their tune.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thing is, every public sector thinks they're in an invaluable job, if you talk about cuts in the NHS they'll wheel out anecdotes about people dying on trollies in corridors, talk about cuts in the council and they'll talk about rubbish piling up in the streets as a health hazard, same goes for the police.

Cuts need to be made. Fact.

People are happy so long as it doesn't affect them.

If a policeman is called in from home even for a few minutes he's automatically given 4hrs pay. Things like that need to be stopped.

Yet, nobody has an alternate plan, unless it's some histrionic diatribe about "overpaid bankers", which really is a drop in the ocean compared to the problem we face.

Very well said, exiges.

These cutbacks have been 10 years in the making. The police got an over-bloated sense of their own importance when OldLab put international terror at the heart of its foreign and domestic policy.

Many public sector worker have been overpaid and underworked for too long now. Public cuts can happen, and will happen - and most of us won't even notice the drop in public services, I'll bet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We've never been in this together. The fact is a lot of sheeple did very well thank you out of rampant HPI which they all know was due to the same bankers lending excessively. They are expecting the same again sometime soon. That is why they are not up in arms, yet. If or when this starts to effect them they may change their tune.

I think it's happening. Almost everyone now has three main topics of conversation:

  1. Inflation

  2. Disgust with politicians and the political process

  3. Disgust with elite salaries esp. bankers

I'd agree that many haven't joined all the dots - the understanding of the nature of the credit boom, what it did and what it hid, isn't really on the radar, but people are aware that they've been shafted, even if some of them did get a reach-around...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well if any of you here are familiar with vast areas of Central London, where you have dozens of estates literally across the street (or in some cases right next to) muiti million GBP homes. I can't say I want to be here when the police presence diminishes. The same time they are cutting all these social programs which many residents of the estates rely so heavily on.

Bored, unemployed youth looking at the millionaire and billionaires across the street. They are going to need an awful lot of private security (and much bigger gates around their homes) to feel safe any longer.

I guess the bright side is, eventually these wealthy people will no longer want to live in these areas. It's sure to have an effect on the housing market...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Surprises me. I'd have thought they'd want to keep the police sweet for the forthcoming waves of civil unrest. At this rate, they'll start to identify with the people they're Tasering, and that'd never do.

Very true ! Thatcher gave the police a large pay rise just before the miners strike !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yet, nobody has an alternate plan, unless it's some histrionic diatribe about "overpaid bankers", which really is a drop in the ocean compared to the problem we face.

Rubbish there's been plenty, you've just chosen to ignore them.

How about:

1. Maximum wage: No Public sector worker to earn more than £100,000k (hardly a commie demand now, and a start)

2. Encourage job sharing/reduced hours: Many public workers can/could and would share out those 37.5 hours a week

3. Migrate all expensive software licenses to Open Office/Umbuntu etc that are low cost or free.

4. Pay freeze over £21k - Already in the pipeline and something I agree with.

There you go a few just from the top of my head, and sorry, but to dismiss the bankers as "Drops in the Ocean" is precious to say the very least. However cuts are inevitable yes, but the pace and quantity of such being implemented by this coalition will only result in its collapse, further economic mere and another Labour victory (no thanks).

Pruning of deadwood is what's needed, not mad Indiscriminate chainsaw swinging.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1. Maximum wage: No Public sector worker to earn more than £100,000k (hardly a commie demand now, and a start)

How much will that save, when we're billions in the hole, it's a good gesture but hardly a saviour.

2. Encourage job sharing/reduced hours: Many public workers can/could and would share out those 37.5 hours a week

Agreed, but the Public Sector are already bleating about pay freezes (doing more for less) which is the same thing.. people will like the idea so long as it doesn't involve them.

3. Migrate all expensive software licenses to Open Office/Umbuntu etc that are low cost or free.

And how much is that going to save ?

4. Pay freeze over £21k - Already in the pipeline and something I agree with.

I don't oppose any of your proposals, but they're no way enough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
People will put up with the changes as long as they see that it's being done fairly. If any elite sector of society tries to hold onto their chunk of the pie, and is allowed to do so, then there will be trouble.

One persons "fair" is another man's "communist state". Look what happened when Labour put up tax to 90% etc. to stop anyone earning lots of money.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Surprises me. I'd have thought they'd want to keep the police sweet for the forthcoming waves of civil unrest. At this rate, they'll start to identify with the people they're Tasering, and that'd never do.

They'll bring in mercenary security forces from Asia or Africa to do that work. They'll be far cheaper and won't care who they shoot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One persons "fair" is another man's "communist state". Look what happened when Labour put up tax to 90% etc. to stop anyone earning lots of money.

Whereas the current system is... well, what? How many actual entrepreneurs - people who have actually either created a profitable enterprise or have demonstrably improved an existing one - are in the top, say, 5%?

These people [edit to clarify: i.e. not the entrepreneurs] have done nothing to legitimise their 'share' - they are robbers and crooks. If you want to protect genuine wealth-creators, by all means tax assets not activity-based income. Aside from that, what would you like to see? Everyone paying for this mess except the elite, because "they're worth it"?

The productive and wealthy will probably have a fall in standards anyway, since they largely depend on the rest of us being able to buy stuff. The elite who just leach are the ones who could potentially be immune from any financial shocks by merely diverting even more wealth into their own pockets.

Edited by tomandlu

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Aside from that, what would you like to see? Everyone paying for this mess except the elite, because "they're worth it"?

There have been many threads on the subject on here of how the top 1-2% of tax payers in this country are contributing 50% of the tax revenue, how are the "elite" not paying for this mess ?

Those who are super rich can just go to whatever domicile that is most tax efficient, so over-taxing those is counter-productive. Laffer curves and all that.

When Howe cut the high rate tax down to 40% in the 70s, the tax take went up.

Edited by exiges

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How much will that save, when we're billions in the hole, it's a good gesture but hardly a saviour.

Like I said it would be a start, and could help control public pay if extended through out levels. Thing is with pay bands is they work both ways. Once you reach the maximum wage of your band currently, that's it just 1% at most if you're lucky. You have to apply for a job at the next grade for a higher salary. Well that's not going to be an option for a while.

Agreed, but the Public Sector are already bleating about pay freezes (doing more for less) which is the same thing.. people will like the idea so long as it doesn't involve them.

Some will of course, however most will be happy just to be in a job still. If people can afford to work one or two days less a week, they will if their organisation is flexible enough. FWIW I can see the days of working 37.5 hours in the same job for the same employer week in week out slowly being consigned to history.

And how much is that going to save ?

All those licenses for Windows and Office for every user/workstation? Quite a lot when you add it all up. I've been told some councils are already looking into this. Will be interesting if private industry follows suit. Every little bit helps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When Howe cut the high rate tax down to 40% in the 70s, the tax take went up.

Do you have a reference for this? I've always found the laffer curve to be a somewhat suspect concept...* IMHO relative wealth and a low Gini coefficient are of far more general benefit and value to all than the ability to be able to swim in money.

* not entirely without merit, just requiring a lot of circumspection...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well if any of you here are familiar with vast areas of Central London, where you have dozens of estates literally across the street (or in some cases right next to) muiti million GBP homes. I can't say I want to be here when the police presence diminishes.

LOL. Like the police actually do any patrol work any more..?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Surprises me. I'd have thought they'd want to keep the police sweet for the forthcoming waves of civil unrest. At this rate, they'll start to identify with the people they're Tasering, and that'd never do.

If it was anyone but the tories, I'd tend to think it was a (not-so) subtle message to the rich: "if you want to hang on to anything, you're going to have to give up something, otherwise the police won't be there to protect you."

To put it another way, if they are serious about tackling the deficit (1st) and the debt (2nd), then there's a hell of a lot of pain yet to come, and the rich cannot expect to ride it out unscathed - the unrest that that would create, coupled with the lack of money for things like the police, make that impossible. Perhaps the tories have recognised this?

I have to admit, it doesn't look likely. Cameron seems to be a right plonker - head boy material at a middling public school, but that's about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Those who are super rich can just go to whatever domicile that is most tax efficient, so over-taxing those is counter-productive. Laffer curves and all that.

Sorry to bang on about this, but what exactly do these 'super rich' do for the rest of us? They avoid taxes, distort house prices and then, apparently, bugger off as soon as someone suggests they might want to contribute a bit more to the infrastructure they seem to enjoy.

Or are we talking about financial organisations? In which case you might have a point - however, since this comes down, essentially, to "well, they get their wealth by robbing the rest of the world, but at least if they're based in the UK, then we get some back in the form of corporate tax. If they were based abroad, we wouldn't even get that."

TBH if times are tight and the rich refuse to pay their share, then they can go jump in the lake...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 309 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.