Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

Hsbc Reveals Plans To Quit London For Hong Kong


Recommended Posts

rea

Some of these reactions just stagger me.

HSBC, if memory serves, were the only UK bank back in 2007/2008 that had a loan/deposit ratio of less than 100% (i.e. funded their loans with deposits as opposed to the money markets) and had a mortgage market share in 2007 of only 3% despite its overall market share being a multiple of this.

So we have the best run UK bank which has been a success in dozens of countries around the world saying that the economic environment in the UK is crippling them overseas as they are being taxed here on their entire balance sheet - not just their UK one. Also, they will be unable to compete in Asia where local banks will be able to pay overall higher levels of remuneration at a lower cost to the shareholders.

So HSBC will still be on every high street here but the strategy and direction of the bank will shift to Asia. The UK part of the bank will very much remain in the UK and be regulated in the UK. What they are saying is that the other bits will now be regulated out of Hong Kong. And of course as a result a decent chunk of tax will be lost to the UK.

Discussions with large institutional shareholders on such matters are entirely normal - for a sensible bank. Clearly HSBC want to see what it's owners (unlike Lloyds, RBS these are NOT you) think.

I think it is laughable that people on this board are cheering as the grown-up bankers leave. You'll be left with the schoolchildren bankers who will be awarded sweeties for doing exactly what the headteacher says. If you genuinely think this is the way to run banks, the financial sector or indeed this country then please could you all leave to a friendly communist country.

Show me a prosperous country that doesn't have a well functioning banking sector. Or do you want workers cooperatives like Cuba?

And no I do not work with HSBC.

And no I'm not a banker.

Well I do know some former HSBC staff and I can assure you that they were just as active in the liar loans business as all the rest. Retail banking staff were under huge pressure to pimp loans to customers they knew had no chance of repaying. One of the reasons one girl gave for quitting was she was disgusted at the attempts to push debt onto people whose only income was the basic state pension.

BTW as already pointed out HSBC pay almost no British Corporate taxes on their earnings outside the UK so the potential tax loss you are suggesting exists mainly in your imagination. The truth is it is the lack of profit to be squeezed out of UK citizens now the bubble has burst which will decide any move. The gibberish about tax rates is merely a blind to divert peoples attention from the real reasons for any relocation.

Edited by stormymonday_2011
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 130
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

redpanda

I can see you are passionate but your arguments lack depth. HSBC changing it's company HQ to HK will not have a massive impact upon us. The 000s employed here will continue to be employed here. It's just the board shifting, and a few of their lackies too. The bulk of the staff working here are required here, otherwise their jobs would already be offshored to save costs.

And they did benefit from the bailout money. Not a single bank denies that, hence you don't ever hear them say a word to the contrary.

We can't let a company dictate our morals and hence our rules. Everyone is clear that there needs to be change and to water that down to keep a few extra shillings in the coffers would cost us far more in the long term than we ever receive through corporation taxes from a minority.

As for people wanting to relocate to HK. Don't assume it's an easy choice for them. It's far from it and I doubt many would leap at the 'opportunity'.

My arguments come with the depth that comes from having worked in financial services in both London and HK, which I suspect most of the people on this thread have not.

That aside, you misunderstand what I am saying. My point is that this could well be a defining moment for the UK, as the one remaining industry in which the UK has any kind of pre-eminent position enters a decline. One of the largest companies in the world is moving away from the UK, it seems perverse to be celebrating that fact.

So what if HSBC benefited from a low interest rate policy? Didn't every other bank, every other person who borrowed money in the UK, the US, the Eurozone, Japan, etc, etc, etc? Does that mean they are all demonized? Did they all act recklessly? Or was it mainly Northern Rock, Halifax and RBS, plus of course Gordon Brown, that got us into this mess?

This is a really, really bad sign for the UK, granted a reasonably small number of HSBC head office staff will lose their jobs, the Treasury will lose some tax revenues, I suspect the pound might take a hit in the markets on Monday, but that is trivial compared to what this really means. It means the UK is no longer perceived as a good place to do business, it is another sign of the shift of power from West to East and the UK's diminishing standing in the world. If I were still living in the UK, I would be really worried about this, your choice I guess.

Link to post
Share on other sites

My arguments come with the depth that comes from having worked in financial services in both London and HK, which I suspect most of the people on this thread have not.

That aside, you misunderstand what I am saying. My point is that this could well be a defining moment for the UK, as the one remaining industry in which the UK has any kind of pre-eminent position enters a decline. One of the largest companies in the world is moving away from the UK, it seems perverse to be celebrating that fact.

So what if HSBC benefited from a low interest rate policy? Didn't every other bank, every other person who borrowed money in the UK, the US, the Eurozone, Japan, etc, etc, etc? Does that mean they are all demonized? Did they all act recklessly? Or was it mainly Northern Rock, Halifax and RBS, plus of course Gordon Brown, that got us into this mess?

This is a really, really bad sign for the UK, granted a reasonably small number of HSBC head office staff will lose their jobs, the Treasury will lose some tax revenues, I suspect the pound might take a hit in the markets on Monday, but that is trivial compared to what this really means. It means the UK is no longer perceived as a good place to do business, it is another sign of the shift of power from West to East and the UK's diminishing standing in the world. If I were still living in the UK, I would be really worried about this, your choice I guess.

no, its not a sign, its a review by a bank that constantly reviews things...as it should...indeed it has a fiduciary duty to do so.

I think facebook was bigger than HSBC, as valued by another valuable contributor to World wellbeing

Link to post
Share on other sites

My arguments come with the depth that comes from having worked in financial services in both London and HK, which I suspect most of the people on this thread have not.

That aside, you misunderstand what I am saying. My point is that this could well be a defining moment for the UK, as the one remaining industry in which the UK has any kind of pre-eminent position enters a decline. One of the largest companies in the world is moving away from the UK, it seems perverse to be celebrating that fact.

So what if HSBC benefited from a low interest rate policy? Didn't every other bank, every other person who borrowed money in the UK, the US, the Eurozone, Japan, etc, etc, etc? Does that mean they are all demonized? Did they all act recklessly? Or was it mainly Northern Rock, Halifax and RBS, plus of course Gordon Brown, that got us into this mess?

This is a really, really bad sign for the UK, granted a reasonably small number of HSBC head office staff will lose their jobs, the Treasury will lose some tax revenues, I suspect the pound might take a hit in the markets on Monday, but that is trivial compared to what this really means. It means the UK is no longer perceived as a good place to do business, it is another sign of the shift of power from West to East and the UK's diminishing standing in the world. If I were still living in the UK, I would be really worried about this, your choice I guess.

HSBC only came to the UK when they bought the Midland Bank. Is not the truth is that they think that they have sucked all the profit they think they can get out of the British people so now they are off. It is a business decision and all the guff about tax rates and market regulation are just attempts to divert attention from naked self interest. If the move causes the UK government to give up its obssesion

about financial services then HSBC may even be doing us a favour.

Edited by stormymonday_2011
Link to post
Share on other sites

At the moment.

Till 2047, with an option to extend to 2097 and a further option to extend to 2147.

The goal is to change Mainland China to be comparable to HK by 2047, if they fail to do this by 2047 they will extend to 2097, thus they can merge the three countries into one as living standards and infrastructure will be similar. Hell even the CCP is allowing people to talk about voting these days rather than censoring it outright.

Edited by ken_ichikawa
Link to post
Share on other sites

BTW as already pointed out HSBC pay almost no British Corporate taxes on their earnings outside the UK so the potential tax loss you are suggesting exists mainly in your imagination. The truth is it is the lack of profit to be squeezed out of UK citizens now the bubble has burst which will decide any move. The gibberish about tax rates is merely a blind to divert peoples attention from the real reasons for any relocation.

But we have a shiny new tax to penalise them on being a global business headquartered in the UK.

Another similar example is Standard Chartered. A near global bank headquartered in the UK. After 2011 they estimate the balance-sheet levy will cost $180 million

Standard Chartered has a much smaller balance sheet than HSBC and we're still talking more than £100m just for the priviledge of being here, paying employers' NI, balance sheet taxes and other UK costs of doing business.

Standard Chartered does virtually zero business in the UK. I assume you'd like them to leave too?

If you guys think that rebalancing the economy involves becoming a second Germany then you're about 60 years too late and if you want to compete with China on manufacturing then get ready to take a 80% pay cut.

I'm all for proper regulation of the banks - but punishing the ones that kept their houses in order? Bonkers.

Link to post
Share on other sites

HSBC only came to the UK when they bought the Midland Bank.

I'm pretty sure HongKong and Shanghai had offices in Bishopsgate long before they bought up the Midland!

I used to work just up the road!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm all for proper regulation of the banks - but punishing the ones that kept their houses in order? Bonkers.

Erm the government works on this principle. Moi and many peers have little to no debt and live frugally within our means (I just bought £13 of food today which has to last me till the end of the month!). We are not paid great sums of money. Yet the government thinks it is OK to hold a gun to my head and or break my legs if I refuse to pay their extortion fees. Extortion which some people find is OK for building a road or something. Except that it isn't OK because most of the extortion I am forced to pay ends up bailing out those who messed it up over extended themselves of built their mini BTL empires. All of which did so at my expense in the first place.

Link to post
Share on other sites

snip

Standard Chartered does virtually zero business in the UK. I assume you'd like them to leave too?

snip

fine by me. Lets add Goldman Sachs and Citi while we are listing.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Loyalty ? whats that?

....Something we had when we respected, trusted, and valued the advice that was given...when the pillars of the society looked out for the community, did their best and gave of their best...instead ripping us off and taking advantage of ignorance to better themselves....... ;)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Some of these reactions just stagger me.

HSBC, if memory serves, were the only UK bank back in 2007/2008 that had a loan/deposit ratio of less than 100% (i.e. funded their loans with deposits as opposed to the money markets) and had a mortgage market share in 2007 of only 3% despite its overall market share being a multiple of this.

Another banking advocate who (apparently) doesn't understand how they work! Amazing. You guys are like tribbles.

So we have the best run UK bank which has been a success in dozens of countries around the world saying that the economic environment in the UK is crippling them overseas as they are being taxed here on their entire balance sheet - not just their UK one. Also, they will be unable to compete in Asia where local banks will be able to pay overall higher levels of remuneration at a lower cost to the shareholders.

So HSBC will still be on every high street here but the strategy and direction of the bank will shift to Asia. The UK part of the bank will very much remain in the UK and be regulated in the UK. What they are saying is that the other bits will now be regulated out of Hong Kong. And of course as a result a decent chunk of tax will be lost to the UK.

Everything HSBC is either obtained through for or fraud. if they vanished overnight, humanity would be better off for it. Banks are parasitical, you can't "lose tax" to them as they ARE tax. After the robbery, it's just a question of who gets the loot.

Much better to never be robbed.

Discussions with large institutional shareholders on such matters are entirely normal - for a sensible bank. Clearly HSBC want to see what it's owners (unlike Lloyds, RBS these are NOT you) think.

I think it is laughable that people on this board are cheering as the grown-up bankers leave. You'll be left with the schoolchildren bankers who will be awarded sweeties for doing exactly what the headteacher says. If you genuinely think this is the way to run banks, the financial sector or indeed this country then please could you all leave to a friendly communist country.

Show me a prosperous country that doesn't have a well functioning banking sector. Or do you want workers cooperatives like Cuba?

And no I do not work with HSBC.

And no I'm not a banker.

Fale comparative. HSBC can ****** off and we can jail all the bakers who are left.

Theres also a false analogy with the "show me a prosperous country that doesn't have a baning sector" line. Show me a rich area that doesn't get burgaled. by your logic, if we look after the burglars and make more of them, then we;'ll have more rich people.

Link to post
Share on other sites

We want good banks not bad banks. ;)

So you'd like Standard Chartered and HSBC or not? Because the way things are going you'll be left with RBS, Lloyds and Northern Rock which aren't exactly going to be great building blocks for your new economic model...

Link to post
Share on other sites

They do loads of business in the UK. So you want no banks at all based in the UK except for piggy banks?

that's what the market wants - someone safe to sore valuables and nothing else, cheers.

We know this because banks have to be maintained through extortion, fraud and lies.

Link to post
Share on other sites

So you'd like Standard Chartered and HSBC or not? Because the way things are going you'll be left with RBS, Lloyds and Northern Rock which aren't exactly going to be great building blocks for your new economic model...

It's only a set of different logos for the same bank, the BoE.

Behave. it's not until they ditch fiat money that we'll have a meaningful recovery.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Another banking advocate who (apparently) doesn't understand how they work! Amazing. You guys are like tribbles.

Theres also a false analogy with the "show me a prosperous country that doesn't have a baning sector" line. Show me a rich area that doesn't get burgaled. by your logic, if we look after the burglars and make more of them, then we;'ll have more rich people.

Yep - let's go back to bartering and keeping gold coins in a jar.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep - let's go back to bartering and keeping gold coins in a jar.

If that's what people want - who are you to say they shouldn't go that way?

All you have to do is put down the gun, and then ask people. if they refuse your offer, then accept it with good grace.

Nobody wants the banks. We know this because they are held in place by an army, a police force and a legislature.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If that's what people want - who are you to say they shouldn't go that way?

All you have to do is put down the gun, and then ask people. if they refuse your offer, then accept it with good grace.

Nobody wants the banks. We know this because they are held in place by an army, a police force and a legislature.

lol - nobody wants the rule of law. I give up.

Link to post
Share on other sites

So you'd like Standard Chartered and HSBC or not? Because the way things are going you'll be left with RBS, Lloyds and Northern Rock which aren't exactly going to be great building blocks for your new economic model...

What we do need is more competition in the banking sector....so a few more banks would not go amiss....I am sure that there are people that would work for the right reasons....helping others, rather than helping themselves....... ;)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.