crash2006 Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1360821/A-degree-slavery-The-highly-educated-graduates-forced-work-nothing.html# Seems to me the olde folk have no morals towards the youth, they need to stand up against the powers and say we arnt working fir free we are humans not dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
righttoleech Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 That's strange. I keep reading that 'we are all better off than ever before'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 there is an answer to this....just say NO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrFlibble Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 That's strange. I keep reading that 'we are all better off than ever before'. Yes, apparently; "we have never had it so good." But also; "we are all in this together." Who is this "we" they speak of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieboy Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Forced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Whole crisis is one of crippled self esteem. It should be - "Work for free? ****** off." "it's just paper, jesus." "Ye I emailed you what I owe you. moron." "I need a piece of paper from you before I start selling to the public? lol" Instead it's "Work for free. <forelock>" "I'm so worthless! I'll work to pay you back forever master!" "Thank you powerful ubermench! I have permission to do what I already could, at last." ------------ The real issue is when these berks realise thres no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow and want actually paying. you'll have the crashing housing market, evaporated pensions and a labour force that's not content with promises of future payment and wants paying in full so they can save for their own retirement, and paying in full, no credit today. The whole of the economy is going to stand on it's head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattyboy1973 Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Forced? no, it's not forced - but there are those who can afford it (trust fund) and those who can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snugglybear Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 no, it's not forced - but there are those who can afford it (trust fund) and those who can't. And those who can afford to may get a job in future. Those who can't afford to definitely won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieboy Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 no, it's not forced - but there are those who can afford it (trust fund) and those who can't. Exactly, they aren't being forced to do anything. Still, nice to see the Mail railing against the secondary effects of the unequal distribution of wealth in the UK. BTW, do trust funds still exist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieboy Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 And those who can afford to may get a job in future. Those who can't afford to definitely won't. And this is different to completing a university course how exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeplyblue Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Whole crisis is one of crippled self esteem. So the problem with young people today is that they have too little self esteem. We must make them feel better about themselves. Of course, this might involve not telling them things they don't fancy hearing, or find difficult or boring, but if a child is full of self-esteem they won't need real market skills. [sarcasm off] It actually goes - "I want to work for you. Give me a job." "What skill have you got that I need?" "None. You will have to train me, or put up with my work being useless until I learn." "And how much do you expect me to pay you whilst you are no use to me?" "A good living wage." "I'm glad you thought it worth applying to me, but I have 10 other applicants who could actually do the job. They are worth something to me now, and for definite, not in a year's time, maybe. Goodbye." ========= This situation could be improved by something closer to an apprenticeship (and no, I don't mean the sort in the TV series) if there are "craft skills" to learn. Better yet, some of those skills could be taught in schools and universities. But some skills probably have to be learned on the job - at a cost to the self-esteem. Story from friend who was teaching basic computer skills in an FE college. Youngsters looking to go into the travel agency business: Friend: Try using this system to book a group of 6 people into one of these holiday cottages. You have been told that one of them is in a wheelchair. Student: Yeah [pause while students all carry out their exercise] Friend: Hannah, I see you've booked them into this cottage here. Isn't there a problem? Student: Nah [hunches shoulder, and adopts victim mentality] Friend: There was a wheelchair user, and this cottage can only be accessed up some steps. How is someone in a wheelchair going to get into the cottage? Student: They'll just have to cope, like the rest of us. Is Hannah worth paying any money to? I would say that until she has learned that such a mistake will have real world consequences, she is worse than useless. Maybe 3 months spent watching other people trying to get it right, and being put on the spot when a customer complains is a lesson worth learning. But why should the employer pay to have Hannah grouching around like a 3rd wheel on a bicycle until she is likely to be worth giving money to? There are people being exploited something rotten - graduates with skills and energy who will work for nothing to prove those skills and energy and then get dumped 12 months later for some other mug to do the same thing. There are also places where there are only a few people with the skills or the experience, and it's easier for an employer to poach a ready-trained person from some other company than to do their own in-house training. Another friend is part of an IT support team for a medium size operation. They recently took on 2 new people - one is a one-year placement as part of an undergraduate degree, one has a post-graduate qualification. Out of curiosity I asked how they were getting on. One good, I was told, one not so good. The good one, it turned out, was the placement (who was being paid - though probably not a lot). The one with the Computer Science qualification was not doing so well, because he only knew how to learn from books and lectures, "He can't pick up the way we do things here. And he doesn't see why he should. And he doesn't know how to talk to people who contact the help desk." This second one was, I think, a permanent job on a starter salary, and needed constant supervision which, given staff shortages, was a drag on the whole team. Here was a good case for a low-paid intern job, which could become permanent if the person worked out how to be useful to that team. And told Goodbye if they didn't shape up after 12 months. The real abuse, IMO, is taking on people in a way that should be the first step to full employment in that organisation, giving them work that is really useful and then getting rid of them for someone else who will come free for a year. But I don't see why it is necessary to take on someone who doesn't know half as much as they think they know, but has lots of self-esteem. (BTW, this applies to senior positions in financial institutions as well.) db Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
profitofdoom Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 As ever it's the middle class way round.Get your mate to take your kid on free and gratis -with a nod and a wink that there will be a job at the end of it.This is really just the old boys network with a 21 st century twist.I liked the way the article says that £5 will just buy you a sandwich.There are millions out there who would love to have £5 a day per head top spend on food.I run a business and,unless I choose to eat out, a fiver a day more than covers my grub.I can even run to free range meat on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rented Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 So the problem with young people today is that they have too little self esteem. We must make them feel better about themselves. Of course, this might involve not telling them things they don't fancy hearing, or find difficult or boring, but if a child is full of self-esteem they won't need real market skills. [sarcasm off] It actually goes - "I want to work for you. Give me a job." "What skill have you got that I need?" "None. You will have to train me, or put up with my work being useless until I learn." "And how much do you expect me to pay you whilst you are no use to me?" "A good living wage." "I'm glad you thought it worth applying to me, but I have 10 other applicants who could actually do the job. They are worth something to me now, and for definite, not in a year's time, maybe. Goodbye." So the problem is that young people expect the same thing their parents got - a job with on the job training straight out of school rather than a life of temporary employment punctuated by long spells of unemployment? Careers advice in schools still works on the basis that you pick a 'career' and that can be your job for life and that if you go to university you can have the pick of any job you want. Developing a range of skills in an attempt to spend less time unemployed in future knowing full well that permanent positions are like gold dust just isn't discussed. This situation could be improved by something closer to an apprenticeship (and no, I don't mean the sort in the TV series) if there are "craft skills" to learn. Better yet, some of those skills could be taught in schools and universities. But some skills probably have to be learned on the job - at a cost to the self-esteem. Why is learning on the job a cost to self-esteem? Nothing wrong with learning on the job. The damage to self esteem will come from long term unemployment and 'apprenticeships' that have replaced all the school leaver positions so now you can do 'apprenticeships' in retail and junior office work. It is the same as the situation for internships for graduates where internships are replacing all the entry level jobs but this time it is happening at school leaver level and school leavers can only hope to work for £2.50 an hr in an 'apprenticeship' whereas before they'd have been eligible for NMW for their age group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim123 Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 I cant recall work experience ever paying a wage. Just becuase someone has spent 3+ years studying in higher education doesnt mean their learnt skills can be readily put to good use commercially. Besides it is an employers markets now just like its becoming a buyers market in housing. Companies taking on interns can hedge their bets better now. To me "work experience" is a 15 year old shadowing someone for two weeks. A graduate working on their own initiative for 6 months is not "work experience" it is on the job training, and IME on the job training has ALWAYS been paid. ISTM that many of these "intern" positions do not qualify to be unpaid under the rules, and it's about time the revenue (as the statutory enforcement agency for NMW) took action to prove so in court. tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormymonday_2011 Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 No income and no credit equals no spending so it is not hard to see why the British economy is shrinking. Free labour sounds great for the elites but in the long run a smaller economy will support less at the top. One reason there were so many wars in the middle ages was because there was so much competition between the aristocracies for the limited amount of production and the peasants who created what little surplus there was. It is not just the plebs at the bottom who may end up losers here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 I cant recall work experience ever paying a wage. Just becuase someone has spent 3+ years studying in higher education doesnt mean their learnt skills can be readily put to good use commercially. Besides it is an employers markets now just like its becoming a buyers market in housing. Companies taking on interns can hedge their bets better now. Try before you buy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orsino Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 A friend works for a world-famous and very profitable luxury fashion brand. She tells me that they simply couldn't operate without their London interns who are paid £50 a week. These interns are not lazy or useless. They work extremely hard and are making an essential contribution. I said to my friend that this was exploitation and she told me 'but I was an intern once'. Of course she was an intern 20 years ago when she was 16 years old and without a qualification to her name. Her interns today are 22 or 23 years old (sometimes older) with a string of very respectable qualifications and often extensive work experience to their name. The company in question made a record profit last year of £161 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattW Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Also covered by the Grauniad: The Internship Myth I considered that a situation like this may occur, what with so many graduates competing for a limited number of jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybernoid Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 These are all the 'dream job' industries, where supply far exceeds demand for 'workers'. An education system that spits out so many media studies and golf course management graduates always had this eventual consequence. If they want to earn money they need to do a job, I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim123 Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 I agree with your 15 year old analysis but in todays world an employer gets to take their pick. But they don't get to pick which law they should obey. If the law is wrong it should be changed, not ignored. tiom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_duke_of_hazzard Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 These are all the 'dream job' industries, where supply far exceeds demand for 'workers'. An education system that spits out so many media studies and golf course management graduates always had this eventual consequence. If they want to earn money they need to do a job, I'm afraid. +1 You're free to tell them to p1ss off - it's called a job market. We pay our interns 16K a year pro rata, because so few people are well-trained enough to work in our field, and few will do it for the love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shell Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 I loathe interns. Little baby faced creeps who pad around with bright, squirelly eyes trying to nick your job from under you - and yes, 99% of time funded by good old Bank Of Mum n' Dad so all middle class or downright posh. They are SO entitled. Think they already know it all and that it's only a matter of time before they're gonna blast their way to the top. Their hard ambition so tediously predictable. One place I worked was 50% middle aged men, 25% cocky male grads (all young Alan Partridges) / male interns and 25% fluttery eyelashed, high heeled, sunbed cleavaged female receptionists / female admin / female intern totty. Needless to say the middle class female intern totty ALL went on to higher up jobs. So glad I made my money working for myself and don't ever, EVER have to go back to the shirkplace again. Suggestion to all interns out there. There is money to be made out there. Have the guts to make it on your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtomsilver Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 My wife is going off on maternity leave soon and had to sort out her own cover. She has opted for an intern over a temp as her previous 'sixth month maternity cover' created more hassle than good. If all goes well the intern will be taken on full time as her assistant. It's a paid internship, nor much but at least it may lead somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggee Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 I pointed out to my boss how unfair it was when personal friends and business contacts' children got the opportunity to intern for free bolstering their CVs and blocking out people from comprehensives without such contacts from a decent career. He listened to me and now his friends and business contacts' children will apparently always be paid. I kid you not – a huge improvement I'm sure you'll agree. Sadly no progress on merit based recruitment for interns. They're a waste of space where we are so we would only do it to “give something back”. Graduate trainees probably take one to two years before they stop being a distraction for the rest of us. What can I do to show my disgust? Quit and get another job where?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt Barlow Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 When I saw the title of this thread, Shocking Abuse of Interns, I immediately thought of Monica Lewinsky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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