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R B S In Another Billion £ Loss - 3 Years In A Row Loser

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http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/Royal-Bank-Scotland-loss-tele-3640577557.html;_ylt=AoN7hHNIERVk2qmztadXidbSr7FG;_ylu=X3oDMTE4ZmpmbzRwBHBvcwMyBHNlYwN5ZmlUb3BTdG9yaWVzBHNsawNyb3lhbGJhbmtvZnM-?x=0

Amy Wilson, 7:39, Thursday 24 February 2011
Royal Bank of Scotland (LSE: RBS.L - news) , the UK bank which is 84pc owned by the Government, reported a narrower loss in 2010 as provisions for bad loans fell.
Edinburgh-based RBS reported a net attributable loss of £1.1bn for last year, down from £3.6bn in 2009. the pre-tax loss was £239m.
The bank said it made an operating profit of £1.9bn in 2010, recovering from a £6.1bn loss the previous year, and returned to profit by all measures in the fourth quarter.
However the
£1.1bn loss was worse than analysts were expecting
- consensus forecasts compiled by Bloomberg were for a £406.5m loss.
That was down to losses on loans in Ireland (Berlin: IIK.BE - news) , which almost doubled to £1.16bn last year.
Overall, RBS's impairment charges on bad loans fell to £9.3bn during the year, down from £13.9bn in 2009.
The bailed-out bank also confirmed that Stephen Hester, chief executive, would take his
£2m bonus
, and that its investment bankers will take home around £950m in bonuses.

Losses 3 years in a row and the boss gets £2,000,000.00? :blink:

Salesmen usually get a commission based on profits. If they sell something for a loss they get owt or their pay is docked. Something wrong when a bankster receives pay for bad performance. Its our £2m too.

Edited by Realistbear

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they would have lost £1.5 billion if it were not for his expert stewardship.

his £2million bonus is small fry and thoroughly deserved.

actual loss £1.1 billion

potential loss £1.5 billion

'profit' £0.4billion

bonuses all round.

Edited by Reck B

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12563720

However, this is an improvement on the £3.6bn loss the bank made in 2009, and the £24.3bn loss it made in 2008.

RB this is the third year of straight losses, your thread title needs updating.

At least they've only lost £30bn in 3 years.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/2m-bonus-for-rbs-chief-2209487.html

The head of Royal Bank of Scotland Stephen Hester has been awarded a £2.04 million bonus for 2010, it was revealed today, as the UK's state-backed banks confirmed their chief executives' pay packets.

And for losing money he gets a bonus.

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peanuts. hardly worth worrying about. :ph34r:

£2m is small for a top bankster and no doubt comes as a result of keeping his chums in government happy. BUT............there is a principal at stake. Your should not get a bonus that is unrelated to performance. A loss is a loss, even if its less of a loss than the year before.

It underlines the problem we have in this country: unprincipled banks, government........................corruption in short.

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I think the theory is that he was not the boss that made all the toxic loans and bad decisions. That one got a mega pay off. He was brought into sort out the crap and make sure us taxpayers got a return on the money we so graciously bailed them out with.

So at an operational level the business made over a billion quid profits i.e on the decisions this man has made. Unfortunately the previous boss was such a chump they are still incurring losses from his decisions so made an overall loss.

His 2m is maybe justifiable.

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I think the theory is that he was not the boss that made all the toxic loans and bad decisions. That one got a mega pay off. He was brought into sort out the crap and make sure us taxpayers got a return on the money we so graciously bailed them out with.

So at an operational level the business made over a billion quid profits i.e on the decisions this man has made. Unfortunately the previous boss was such a chump they are still incurring losses from his decisions so made an overall loss.

His 2m is maybe justifiable.

If his £2m is paid out of losses we pay it. As a politician would say, I am quite clear about this and bonuses should only be paid out of profits otherwise you disincentivise everything.

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£2m is small for a top bankster and no doubt comes as a result of keeping his chums in government happy. BUT............there is a principal at stake. Your should not get a bonus that is unrelated to performance. A loss is a loss, even if its less of a loss than the year before.

It underlines the problem we have in this country: unprincipled banks, government........................corruption in short.

RBS up 5% on the greater than expected loss!

Champers all round - Cristal of course!

CEO's bonus upped to £10 million as linked to share price performance!!!

Edit: by the way, when I said 'peanuts', I was of course referring to the £1 billion loss, not his miniscule £2m salary.

Edited by SHERWICK

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RBS up 5% on the greater than expected loss!

Champers all round - Cristal of course!

CEO's bonus upped to £10 million as linked to share price performance!!!

Edit: by the way, when I said 'peanuts', I was of course referring to the £1 billion loss, not his miniscule £2m salary.

Oh dear, share price down by 3% now :unsure:

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Page 149 of their report has the UK mortgage details

RBS report

Couple of choice bits

The UK mortgage portfolio totalled £92.6 billion at 31 December 2010, an increase of 8% from 31 December 2009, due to continued strong sales growth and lower redemption rates in historical terms

The arrears rate (more than 3 payments in arrears, excluding repossessions and shortfalls post property sale) increased slightly to 1.7% at 31 December 2010

The number of properties repossessed in 2010 was 1,392 compared with 1,251 in 2009.

the proportion of balances in negative equity at 31 December 2010 standing at 6.9%

Bearing in mind the size of their mortgage book, that's a lot of people in negative equity.

Ireland seems to be a looming problem for RBS, page 152 onwards, with Ulster Bank Group and its 22bn of mortgages. 37% of these are more than 90% LTV. They're going to cause some big future losses for us.

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Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS) has reported a loss of £1.13bn for 2010, a bigger figure than analysts had been expecting...

...Earlier this month, RBS said it would pay its investment bankers bonuses of about £950m for 2010 - down from £1.3bn the previous year.

Source

Am I alone in seeing a rather obvious solution to the reported losses?!

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I thought the argument for favouring the private sector over the public sector was that in the former people only got a more pay if the company made a profit.

Once again it seems that logic is absent from the banking industry which seems to have become the prime exponent of privatising profits and socializing losses.

Edited by stormymonday_2011

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I thought the argument for favouring the private sector over the public sector was that in the former people only got a more pay if the company made a profit.

Once again it seems that logic is absent from the banking industry which seems to have become the prime exponent of privatising profits and socializing losses.

I'd say this isn't just in the banking sector, the pay for a lot of CEO's has kept going up meanwhile company performance decreases. Redhat keeps posting a lot of stats on executive pay going up meanwhile losses are made. It's a rigged system the argument is it's comparable pay so if everyone else is getting a wage increase you deserve one too. We have skewed system that's rigged purely for the elites to trough.

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I think the theory is that he was not the boss that made all the toxic loans and bad decisions. That one got a mega pay off. He was brought into sort out the crap and make sure us taxpayers got a return on the money we so graciously bailed them out with.

So at an operational level the business made over a billion quid profits i.e on the decisions this man has made. Unfortunately the previous boss was such a chump they are still incurring losses from his decisions so made an overall loss.

His 2m is maybe justifiable.

Under 'normal' circumstances I'd agree - but how much of the fantastic operational profits that the banks are making are down to the largesse of government policy (cheap state insurance of toxic loans, near unlimited supply of low-interest liquidity and policy of keeping base rates low so as to allow bank margins to be ridiculously fat) and how much is down to them doing a good job?

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Why shouldn't Stephen Hester take his bonus? He's just the guy who's been recruited to clean up all the mess created by his predecessors. Imo by all accounts he's doing a good job. The alternative is that RBS employ some muppet who has no idea what he/she is doing and then the losses (for the tax payer) could be far worse. No thanks!

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I'd say this isn't just in the banking sector, the pay for a lot of CEO's has kept going up meanwhile company performance decreases. Redhat keeps posting a lot of stats on executive pay going up meanwhile losses are made. It's a rigged system the argument is it's comparable pay so if everyone else is getting a wage increase you deserve one too. We have skewed system that's rigged purely for the elites to trough.

Banker Barons! Kings of their 'Castles'

RBS headquarters = "The Mound" Edinburgh (burn)

Norman Baron 'temp' castles = Motte & Bailey (Mound & Ditch) ;)

From the Humber to Newcastle Normans slashed(cuts) and burned all crops + salt on fields.

Villages/towns north east were wiped out (tens of thousands of survivors died of starvation) - area not inhabited again for over 100yrs

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Why shouldn't Stephen Hester take his bonus? He's just the guy who's been recruited to clean up all the mess created by his predecessors. Imo by all accounts he's doing a good job. The alternative is that RBS employ some muppet who has no idea what he/she is doing and then the losses (for the tax payer) could be far worse. No thanks!

You are Bob Diamond and I claim my £5m bonus.

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Does the £1bn loss take into account any losses from stuff they bundled into the APS or is it just fraud and false accounting so they can have bonuses? If they had £2.9bn of negative equity mortgages in Ireland in 2009 how much must they have now?

You have to love the loans to Hedge Fund managers in the Cayman Islands!

07 Dec 2009 UK backs £167bn of overseas bad debt

Treasury reveals taxpayer is insuring more of RBS’s foreign toxic loans than British ones.

British taxpayers stand behind more than £167bn of toxic assets in the US, Ireland, the Middle East and beyond, it has emerged as the Treasury disclosed details of what Royal Bank of Scotland has dumped in the state insurance scheme for bad debts.

Most of the £281.9bn of assets RBS has placed under taxpayer protection are based outside the UK, with loans secured against everything from negative equity properties in Dublin to hedge fund assets in Caribbean tax havens and container ships docked in ports around the world.

In a document released quietly on its website on monday, the Treasury revealed the full make-up of the portfolio of assets taxpayers are now supporting through the Government’s Asset Protection Scheme (APS).

It includes:

The overdrafts on 3.2m British bank accounts, and 70,000 UK mortgages at an average loan-to-value ratio of an alarmingly high 95pc.

A vast portfolio of loans to Irish and Northern Irish businesses and customers, including £2.9bn worth of negative equity mortgages in Dublin and throughout Ireland.

Some £3.1bn of loans to hedge fund managers, almost half of whom were based in the Cayman Islands and a third in the US.

Almost £4bn worth of shipping loans secured against oil tankers and container ships.

The details underline the fact that at the peak of the banking crisis, RBS had become the world’s biggest bank in terms of assets, having expanded rapidly during the credit boom, swelling its size even further with its acquisition of ABN Amro.

In total, £167.4bn of assets underwritten by British taxpayers are overseas. Only £114.5bn are in the UK.

Observers estimated that at least a quarter of the insured toxic debts came with RBS’s disastrous acquisition of Dutch bank ABN Amro. In all, the Government’s exposure to RBS’s European assets is £75.4bn, its US ones £43.6bn, and “other” foreign debts £48.4bn.

The Treasury stresses in the document that its “central expectation is that overall net losses on the insured pool will not exceed the £60bn first loss [borne by RBS]. The direct cost to the taxpayer from the APS is therefore expected to be nil”.

Under the agreement, RBS will manage the assets in the scheme but hand control to a “step-in manager” appointed by the Treasury if losses reach £75bn. The bank has also been instructed to ensure “RBS personnel working on the APS are remunerated at an equivalent level to those working on non-APS assets”.

The document reveals that the Treasury paid its advisers, including investment bank Credit Suisse, £71m to set up the APS – a sum that has been reimbursed by RBS and Lloyds. Lloyds, which withdrew from the APS earlier this year, has paid £26m and RBS “is paying” £45m.

RBS has also agreed to pay the Treasury for the cost of running the Asset Protection Agency (APA), the body established to ensure RBS’s assets are being managed in the taxpayers’ best interests. It is expected to have a staff of 50, led by chief executive Stephan Wilcke, a former senior advisor of Cairn Capital.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/financialcrisis/6755491/UK-backs-167bn-of-overseas-bad-debt.html

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I'd just like to point out that my brother went for a contract position @ RBS 2 weeks ago - IT project management. The position was being offered @ £800 per day on a 6 month rolling contract.

I'm glad my tax money is going to good use.

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/Royal-Bank-Scotland-loss-tele-3640577557.html;_ylt=AoN7hHNIERVk2qmztadXidbSr7FG;_ylu=X3oDMTE4ZmpmbzRwBHBvcwMyBHNlYwN5ZmlUb3BTdG9yaWVzBHNsawNyb3lhbGJhbmtvZnM-?x=0

Amy Wilson, 7:39, Thursday 24 February 2011
Royal Bank of Scotland (LSE: RBS.L - news) , the UK bank which is 84pc owned by the Government, reported a narrower loss in 2010 as provisions for bad loans fell.
Edinburgh-based RBS reported a net attributable loss of £1.1bn for last year, down from £3.6bn in 2009. the pre-tax loss was £239m.
The bank said it made an operating profit of £1.9bn in 2010, recovering from a £6.1bn loss the previous year, and returned to profit by all measures in the fourth quarter.
However the
£1.1bn loss was worse than analysts were expecting
- consensus forecasts compiled by Bloomberg were for a £406.5m loss.
That was down to losses on loans in Ireland (Berlin: IIK.BE - news) , which almost doubled to £1.16bn last year.
Overall, RBS's impairment charges on bad loans fell to £9.3bn during the year, down from £13.9bn in 2009.
The bailed-out bank also confirmed that Stephen Hester, chief executive, would take his
£2m bonus
, and that its investment bankers will take home around £950m in bonuses.

Losses 3 years in a row and the boss gets £2,000,000.00? :blink:

Salesmen usually get a commission based on profits. If they sell something for a loss they get owt or their pay is docked. Something wrong when a bankster receives pay for bad performance. Its our £2m too.

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I love the "capitalists" in the banking industry arguing that they are entitled to a share in the profits that the "socialists" are arguing should go to the shareholders/customers instead.

It also reminds me of that Steve Coogan swimming pool attendant sketch

In 1991 the bank made a £1b profit

In 1992 the bank made a £1b profit

In 1993 the bank made a £1b profit

In 2008 the bank made a £100b loss

In 2011 the bank made a £1b profit

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Why shouldn't Stephen Hester take his bonus? He's just the guy who's been recruited to clean up all the mess created by his predecessors. Imo by all accounts he's doing a good job. The alternative is that RBS employ some muppet who has no idea what he/she is doing and then the losses (for the tax payer) could be far worse. No thanks!

Isn't a bonus performance related? How many other industries pay a bonus on the basis that company losses might have been worse had the employee in question not been in post?

The fact that this can seriously be proposed and carried through demonstrates just how far the banking sector has travelled from anything resembling free market capitalism.

What we have here is an in work benefit of two million pounds paid by the taxpayer- nothing more.

Edited by wonderpup

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      • down 5% +
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