Where's The Food Inflation In China?

[Saberu]

I just walked into the supermarket and bought brown onions for 1p each, surely this is an order of magnitude cheaper than what they cost in Britain?

Put in other words, 9p per kilogram

In fact the onions seem much cheaper than the rice here.

Just checked on the internet and they are 82p / Kg in Tesco. I could cook fried onions with rice as a meal and it would cost less than 10p.

I know this is impractical but if i was really frugal I could live on a diet of rice with onions (or other cheap vegetables) then a peice of fruit for 10p like a banana and I could fully eat on 6 pounds per month.

I have no desire whatsoever to do this, I am just very curious because food is much more expensive in Britain and most people there could not imagine being able to eat a diet including fruit, vegetables and staples (e.g. rice) all for just over 5 pounds per month.

As a foreign person moving to China it would easily be possible to live on 100 pounds per month if you were happy to just exist without much comfort. 200 per month would probably afford you an apartment with proper interior, furnished, warm etc.

Edited February 22, 2011 by Saberu

[repetitive bleats]

I just walked into the supermarket and bought brown onions for 1p each, surely this is an order of magnitude cheaper than what they cost in Britain?

Put in other words, 9p per kilogram

Just checked on the internet and they are 82p / Kg in Tesco. I could cook fried onions with rice as a meal and it would cost less than 10p.

I know this is impractical but if i was really frugal I could live on a diet of rice with onions (or other cheap vegetables) then a peice of fruit for 10p like a banana and I could fully eat on 6 pounds per month.

But whats the average weekly wage?

[Saberu]

But whats the average weekly wage?

A rubbish supermarket job in this area would likely only give 40 pounds per week plus free accomodation as most companies give their staff accomodation in China it seems. As for average wage in this area perhaps 60 per week but much higher in the bigger cities.

A lot of Chinese people can and do save almost all their salary every month except for the ones who invested in a mortgage or a nice car.

Even the supermarket employee could save 150 pounds per month if he really tried yet many people on over 1000 pounds/ month after tax in the UK cannot match that level of saving.

So I make 6 pounds per month just under 4% of a supermarket wage in China, whereas in Britain you would likely need to spend at least 100 per month on food which is almost 15% of minimum wage after tax. This gets worse if you consider feeding a family on one wage, maybe 10% in China vs over 30% in Britain if on minimum wage.

Edited February 22, 2011 by Saberu

[Executive Sadman]

Are they subsidized?

They subsidize a lot of basic necesities in developing countries.

IIRC when the border yanks were having to pay $4 a gallon (so expensive!) they all went across to Mexico to buy subsidized petrol for $2 a gallon.

[Ruffneck]

I wouldn't want to eat Chinese onions , 1p each or not.

[singlemalt]

I could live survive on a diet of rice with onions.

Corrected.

[repetitive bleats]

I wouldn't want to eat Chinese onions , 1p each or not.

That's pretty much what the Chinese think about the tired, old produce that sits in our supermarkets. If you hate fresh food then you'd probably hate it there.

[uk2bkk]

I just walked into the supermarket and bought brown onions for 1p each, surely this is an order of magnitude cheaper than what they cost in Britain?

Put in other words, 9p per kilogram

What is the percentage of polymers in the onion?

[Ruffneck]

That's pretty much what the Chinese think about the tired, old produce that sits in our supermarkets. If you hate fresh food then you'd probably hate it there.

Enjoy eating food fertilized by untreated human waste then.

[pyracantha]

What is the percentage of polymers in the onion?

You mean they don't just put glue in toothpaste now?

[Gigantic Purple Slug]

Rice and onions may be cheap, but you forgot to factor in the cost of the gas mask.

[erranta]

A rubbish supermarket job in this area would likely only give 40 pounds per week plus free accomodation as most companies give their staff accomodation in China it seems. As for average wage in this area perhaps 60 per week but much higher in the bigger cities.

A lot of Chinese people can and do save almost all their salary every month except for the ones who invested in a mortgage or a nice car.

Even the supermarket employee could save 150 pounds per month if he really tried yet many people on over 1000 pounds/ month after tax in the UK cannot match that level of saving.

So I make 6 pounds per month just under 4% of a supermarket wage in China, whereas in Britain you would likely need to spend at least 100 per month on food which is almost 15% of minimum wage after tax. This gets worse if you consider feeding a family on one wage, maybe 10% in China vs over 30% in Britain if on minimum wage.

When I was travelling there with my mrs in early 90's, we used to buy TsingTao lager/beer for less than 20p can at a corner shop, then drink all the cold ones out of the fridge in hotel room (which were charged to Westerners at over £2.00 each!)

[richc]

I know this is impractical but if i was really frugal I could live on a diet of rice with onions (or other cheap vegetables) then a peice of fruit for 10p like a banana and I could fully eat on 6 pounds per month.

You'd probably be in pretty poor shape after a year (if not less). If you didn't die of scurvy, you'd be suffering a massive protein deficiency because rice doesn't provide a full balance of proteins/amino acids, nor do most vegetables. Any children would definitely be dead or permanently brain damaged within a year on a diet like this.

In any case, inflation doesn't measure the absolute level of prices but the change in prices over time. The question isn't what price for onions in China vs. Britain, but what price are onions in China now vs. China one year ago. I bet those onions cost a lot less last year.

[erranta]

That's pretty much what the Chinese think about the tired, old produce that sits in our supermarkets. If you hate fresh food then you'd probably hate it there.

Pointing out the fish in the aquarium you wanted for dinner in 10 minutes was always an experience.

[tim123]

I just walked into the supermarket and bought brown onions for 1p each, surely this is an order of magnitude cheaper than what they cost in Britain?

Put in other words, 9p per kilogram

In fact the onions seem much cheaper than the rice here.

Just checked on the internet and they are 82p / Kg in Tesco. I could cook fried onions with rice as a meal and it would cost less than 10p.

I know this is impractical but if i was really frugal I could live on a diet of rice with onions (or other cheap vegetables) then a peice of fruit for 10p like a banana and I could fully eat on 6 pounds per month.

I have no desire whatsoever to do this, I am just very curious because food is much more expensive in Britain and most people there could not imagine being able to eat a diet including fruit, vegetables and staples (e.g. rice) all for just over 5 pounds per month.

As a foreign person moving to China it would easily be possible to live on 100 pounds per month if you were happy to just exist without much comfort. 200 per month would probably afford you an apartment with proper interior, furnished, warm etc.

And do you have any experience of finding this mythical place?

IME accommodation in the main cities that is available to westerners is charged at central London prices.

(Just as hotels are. Sure there are 2 dollar a night hotels, but walk into them and you will probably be told "no westerners". And this is a city/state/federal law, not the whim of the owner).

tim

[Scott Sando]

What is the percentage of polymers in the onion?

A number of Chinese companies have been involved over the years in various scandals involving fake or tainted goods. Perhaps the most dangerous of all involve food, including the now famous 2008 milk scandal in which Chinese-made milk was found to contain the toxin melamine. The end result was 290,000 victims who fell ill and 11 suspected cases of death.

Now there are reports from Singapore media that China is mass producing fake rice, which can be potentially very dangerous.

According to the Korean-language “Weekly Hong Kong” (which many Vietnam websites are referencing as well), Singapore media claim that fake rice is being distributed in the Chinese town of Taiyuan, in Shaanxi province.

This “rice” is a mix of potatoes, sweet potatoes, and plastic. It is formed by mixing the potatoes and sweet potatoes into the shape of rice grains, then adding industrial synthetic resins. Since the rice does not behave like normal rice, it stays hard even after it has been cooked. Such synthetic resins can also be very harmful if consumed.

A Chinese Restaurant Association official said that eating three bowls of this fake rice would be like eating one plastic bag. Due to the seriousness of the matter, he added that there would be an investigation of factories alleged to be producing the rice. Meanwhile, the low cost of the fake rice is allowing wholesalers to make large profits.

[The Eagle]

I wouldn't want to eat Chinese onions , 1p each or not.

Agreed, onions are powerful mercury celators, which means if they grow in land polluted by mercury (China burns a lot of coal which disperses tons of mercury in the environment) they will contain very high concentrations of mercury...

I did have access to a mercury vapour analyzer once and noted that even onions from major UK supermarkets contain worrying levels of mercury (garlic is even worse since it's an even more powerful mercury celator).

[Saberu]

And do you have any experience of finding this mythical place?

IME accommodation in the main cities that is available to westerners is charged at central London prices.

(Just as hotels are. Sure there are 2 dollar a night hotels, but walk into them and you will probably be told "no westerners". And this is a city/state/federal law, not the whim of the owner).

tim

I pay less than 100 pounds/ month for my apartment in China, but the city I am living in is medium sized for China so it's cheaper than a big city. And my apartment is definitely not a shithole, it's very comfortable and whilst only around 45sqf it does have a large bathroom and adequate cooking facilities.

But what you are saying about apartments allowed to foreigners can only be expensive is completely false and most likely you have been cheated into believing that as many Chinese businessmen (and women!) can be coldhearted and immoral cheating people in order to get the best price for themselves. Even the most expensive apartments in Shanghai or Beijing will not approach London prices for comparable size/ location.

As for the rule about hotels being allowed to foreigners, in some cities they have strict rules that some hotels must obtain a permit but this is not the case in most of the cities I have been in China. Even in the cities with strict rules it really is just the case that instead of finding a hotel for 5-7 pounds/ night you just need to pay a little more for example 10-12 pounds/ night for the hotel with a permit.

But again, when you walk into most hotels there is going to be the real price and then the price on the wall for people who are too naive or too rich to enquire about what their lowest price actually is. This could be a difference of 50-200%.

I'm not sure what you mean about 2 dollar hotels, I'm guessing you mean the 10 dollar ones as I've never found something as cheap as 2 dollars and if you want to really be frugal there are $5 places but they will not be hotel quality, ie no ensuite, a/c, bed will be rubbish etc.

That poster mentioning fake rice scares me even though I'm not in Shaanxi province, which I think was also where the milk scandal occured or some other scandal. If found, the people making that rice will be severely punished by the local authorities and the government, China isn't the wild west people make it out to be.

Just that there are many unscrupulous Chinese people with no morals, and in fact most people in China seem to worship money and profit which is why I will be moving to Japan at the first oppurtunity.

Edited February 23, 2011 by Saberu

[aa3]

The Chinese government may be subsidizing certain staples. Which imo is a good thing.. good old progressive policies.

Its funny if you said you were going to give every family £100 pounds a month, there would be a uproar. But subsidize farmers so that you net out the same result and there is broad support. Its sort of a citizen's dividend through the back door.

[easy2012]

I just walked into the supermarket and bought brown onions for 1p each, surely this is an order of magnitude cheaper than what they cost in Britain?

Put in other words, 9p per kilogram

In fact the onions seem much cheaper than the rice here.

Also, top quality stuffs are usually exported to the west / singapore / HK. So, the 9p onion isn't normally as good as the 82p on in Tesco (though 9x is excessive).

But yes, outside cities / expat district, it is quite possible to live on £100 per month - though you probably have to live in squalid accommodation with shared facilities.

On a like for like basis, I think China cost of living is probably about 1/3 of UK's.

[easy2012]

Just that there are many unscrupulous Chinese people with no morals, and in fact most people in China seem to worship money and profit which is why I will be moving to Japan at the first oppurtunity.

People change as society changes. 30 years ago, you can leave a diamond ring in a Chinese hotel and you will get it back. There was little interest in material wealth.

With capitalism, the Chinese society became richer, provide the west with cheap goods and bailed out the West with its mega stimulus but then people are more materialistic.

Also, by the way, what happened in China today more or less happened in 1900 US as well (all the food scares etc). Things will get better as the nation becomes a

developed country.

You gain something, you lose something..

[saving since 2005]

You'd probably be in pretty poor shape after a year (if not less). If you didn't die of scurvy, you'd be suffering a massive protein deficiency because rice doesn't provide a full balance of proteins/amino acids, nor do most vegetables. Any children would definitely be dead or permanently brain damaged within a year on a diet like this.

Thats rubbish. If someone survived on fresh vegetables, rice and a fruit a day they would have a much better diet than the majority of the uk. No sugar, no additives, no preservatives, no wheat and no gluten in that diet. Although it isnt by any means an ideal diet.

[Ruffneck]

Thats rubbish. If someone survived on fresh vegetables, rice and a fruit a day they would have a much better diet than the majority of the uk. No sugar, no additives, no preservatives, no wheat and no gluten in that diet. Although it isnt by any means an ideal diet.

There is no fat in a diet of rice and onions.

Your brain would start to shut down after a few months.

Edited February 23, 2011 by Ruffneck

[saving since 2005]

There is no fat in a diet of rice and onions.

Your brain would start to shut down after a few months.

Both rice and onions contain some fat, not much but some.

Anyway I said vegtables and a peice of fruit on top of rice and onions. Vegatables are fruits are considered among some the best sources of fats.

[Dorkins]

There is no fat in a diet of rice and onions.

Your brain would start to shut down after a few months.

+1

You really need some beans in there at the very least, and cooking oil.