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Benefits: Thousands Face £50 Fine For Errors

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12506273

Hundreds of thousands of people are expected to face fines of at least £50 for "preventable" errors in their benefits claims.

The government expects to levy more than £60m in these civil penalties in the next four years, it revealed in its welfare reform proposals.

Errors could include failure to inform the authorities of a change of address or a partner moving into their home.

A union called the plans "shameful" and "unnecessarily punitive".

Fraud and error

Chancellor George Osborne announced plans to introduce a civil penalty around the time of last October's Spending Review.

But finer details of the plans - including the amount the government expects to levy in fines - was detailed in its welfare reform proposals.

With an estimated £5bn lost a year to fraud and error in the welfare system, the government wants to put more emphasis on people taking "personal responsibility" for their claims.

So, from 2012, it plans to deduct at least £50 from benefits if errors were made that "could have reasonably been prevented".

"[The] £50 rate was determined as an appropriate starting point for the majority of benefit customers to encourage better care of their claim, with the option of increasing the civil penalty to up to £300," the proposals found.

These fines, which will be paid in addition to refunding any overpayments, will total £9m in 2012-13, the government predicts.

This will increase to £30.5m in 2014-15, which is the equivalent of fines at £50 for 610,000 people.

Unbelievable how much extra bureaucracy is this going to create to recovery a whopping £9m in 2012-13?

Nice to see that claimants have now become customers!

So we have Barclays making billions and paying peanuts in tax and the govt decides the best way forward in tackling out £1tr - £2.5tr debt pile is by fining those on low incomes for not declaring a partner has moved in.

Dave's sorted all our problems now, by the end of the year there will be no more UK debt mountain.

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It gets more farcical by the day. The benefit claimants who have to pay £50 could refer them to the benefit they've lost out on by the BoE's error in calculating the inflation index meaning that they're probably owed a few thousand pounds in benefits.

Edited by billybong

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It just demonstrates how far removed from reality these policy makers really are. The administration cost and knock-on effect in the wider world will likely make this a loss making exersise.

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It gets more farcical by the day. The benefit claimants who have to pay £50 could refer them to the benefit they've lost out on by the BoE's error in calculating the inflation index meaning that they're probably owed a few thousand pounds in benefits.

It is farcical, a messed up system, often complicated, sometimes gamed, but let's solve the nation's debt problem by picking on the poor.

Add some bureaucracy, turn up the fear knob, and divert attention from the real issues for a few bash 'the benefit cheat' headlines. Isn't there supposed to be millions going unclaimed?

Edited by tinker

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They make it almost impossible to not fall foul of the rules. Taking working tax credit for example, you can only claim it if you're working 16 hours plus every week, so what happens if you work for an agency and sometimes you work more than 16 hours and sometimes less, but overall you average around 16? Are you meant to keep signing up every other week?

If the system wasn't nuts there wouldn't be so many mistakes.

Edited by Chef

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It just demonstrates how far removed from reality these policy makers really are. The administration cost and knock-on effect in the wider world will likely make this a loss making exersise.

Correct

I also think they are doing this to play up to those that are screaming the benefits claimers are bringing the country down.

It was the same with the policy of charging new social housing tenneants 80% of the market rate , It will bring in little money and in many parts of the country those that could afford 80% of the market rent will be earing to much to be allowed a social house.

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Citizens income. Everyone gets £100* per week. End of story. Job done.

* Or whatever.

Edited by ccc

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Citizens income. Everyone gets £100* per week. End of story. Job done.

* Or whatever.

That would be to simple , remember we are dealing with our leaders here complicated idiots !!!

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They make it almost impossible to not fall foul of the rules. Taking working tax credit for example, you can only claim it if you're working 16 hours plus every week, so what happens if you work for an agency and sometimes you work more than 16 hours and sometimes less, but overall you average around 16? Are you meant to keep signing up every other week?

If the system wasn't nuts there wouldn't be so many mistakes.

Its 16 hours for parents / carers, 30 for others...In theory, you should sign off, claim your tax credits, sign back on, stop claiming credits. Totally farcical.

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That would be to simple , remember we are dealing with our leaders here complicated idiots !!!

Well exactly. Quite depressing really. The simplest ideas are ALWAYS the best. It has been shown time and time again.

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Citizens income. Everyone gets £100* per week. End of story. Job done.

* Or whatever.

Except that would equate to £3333 per person per year if it were shared out equally (£200bn/60mill), or a years worth of minimum wage work in Poland.

We would be flooded.

Edited by Chef

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Except that would equate to £3333 per person per year if it were shared out equally (£200bn/60mill), or a years worth of minimum wage work in Poland.

We would be flooded.

Hence the title CITIZENS income. :rolleyes:

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I also think they are doing this to play up to those that are screaming the benefits claimers are bringing the country down.

HB claimants are by being the front (wo)man for dole-grabbing landlords who wouldn't have touched BTL without it.

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are you saying the 1 million + poles that live here aren't citizens?

Citizens/subjects or whatever - no.

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Citizens/subjects or whatever - no.

Sorry mate you're talking absolute rubbish, I know Poles that are already legally claiming benefits. So the CD would be available for anyone in the EU that decided to upsticks & make the UK their home. That combined with an internationally used language would encourage a 2nd wave of mass immigration.

Edited by Chef

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Sorry mate you're talking absolute rubbish, I know Poles that are already legally claiming benefits. So the CD would be available for anyone in the EU that decided to upsticks & make the UK their home. That combined with an internationally used language would encourage a 2nd wave of mass immigration.

I am talking about a complete sea change and not just an amendment of what we have today. Slate wiped clean and start from scratch. This would not be a benefit. The rules on who would and would not get it would be put in place.

Of course this would require a Government with balls and a desire for real change. So cant see it happening.

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I am talking about a complete sea change and not just an amendment of what we have today. Slate wiped clean and start from scratch. This would not be a benefit. The rules on who would and would not get it would be put in place.

Of course this would require a Government with balls and a desire for real change. So cant see it happening.

Correct on both counts

That is what we need but they have not got the balls.

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Sorry mate you're talking absolute rubbish, I know Poles that are already legally claiming benefits. So the CD would be available for anyone in the EU that decided to upsticks & make the UK their home. That combined with an internationally used language would encourage a 2nd wave of mass immigration.

EU directives require EU nationals to be treated in a similar manner to UK subjects (after some permitted transitional restrictions for ascession countries - A8 and A2). So, make the qualification for a Citizen's Basic Income five years continuous residence.

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HB claimants are by being the front (wo)man for dole-grabbing landlords who wouldn't have touched BTL without it.

The minority of BTL landlords who will openly accept HB tenants are those who operate at the very bottom of the market - a sector where the government's HB cuts are likely to result in rents increasing (as a result of removing the incentive for claimants to look for below LHA rents and a reduction in the supply of landlords willing to let to HB claimants while demand continues to increase).

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Not sure what this is about.

There are errors that don't mean anything. And there are lies intended to defraud.

Failure to notify change of address or partner moving in are classic indicators of benefit fraud. If money is taken on a lie, prosecute with criminal penalties.

But court prosecution and imprisonment are expensive, so just leave it to the bureaucrats to punish everyone at a low level, regardless of guilt. It's called tax.

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These fines, which will be paid in addition to refunding any overpayments, will total £9m in 2012-13, the government predicts.

This will increase to £30.5m in 2014-15, which is the equivalent of fines at £50 for 610,000 people.

The trouble with all these lame schemes is that we have a £3bn deficit each week. Saving £9m or even £30m over the course of a year isn't exactly going to save us and since this is another government scheme it will likely cost more to administer than it ever saves.

So far the ConDems have successfully rearranged a few deckchair on HMS UK but I've yet to see a new course set to avoid the Iceberg.

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Wow, many people here seem to think it's OK to over claim (error or fraud) based on the justification that it's an over complicated system.

Fraud triangle:

Motive

Opportunity

Rationalisation

Seems like we have a good example.

The main challenge that £50 is not worth it; then are we saying the charge should be £250 to cover administration costs? Not sure the dodgy masses will like that much either. But to turn a blind eye completely is not acceptable. It's my money too and I want it to go where it's needed please.

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Personally I think the whole system should be changed such that each individual has a pot. Some of your taxes go into this pot, if you find yourself unemployed you can take out of the pot - no more that you paid into it. If you work all your life without dipping into your pot you get a better public pension. If the pot could be managed like a SIPP then even better.

People who have paid fook all in should be shown the door but that is unacceptable in the UK as everyone must be given access to the same standard of living irrelevant of whether they can be bothered to work or not, and having a couple of kids in the UK is like finding a Golden Wonka Ticket.

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  • 284 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
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      • Even
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      • up 5%



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