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Loss Of Faith In The Irish Fairy Tale (How To Blow A Fortune - Panorama (Monday))

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As per the title...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/9401513.stm

As Ireland prepares to choose a new government, its journey from boom to bust and the years of austerity and pain which lie ahead are likely to be at the forefront of many voters' minds. It was in the middle of the boom in 2006, and an acquaintance had stopped by my summer cottage on the County Waterford coast. We were drinking tea in the garden.

"You are mad not to be building here," he told me. "You'd get two places on this land.

"Knock down that thing and build again."

I looked around the modest garden and then at my rickety tin and wood cottage and briefly pictured two gleaming new buildings rising on the spot.

"No thanks," I said, "I am happy with this."

He repeated his view that I was mad.

"You're sitting on a great little goldmine here. You could have one for yourself and flog the other. Pure mad you are."

And in the atmosphere of Ireland that summer I can understand how he would have thought I was mad. The country was experiencing record economic growth. Land and house prices were soaring. In the space of a decade property had increased in value by as much as 70%.

It was the age of the taxi driver with a portfolio of apartments in Bulgaria, of the super-developers who criss-crossed Ireland in their shiny new helicopters. An age of glad, confident mornings when the ghosts of emigration and unemployment had been sent packing. Down on the bay, about five minutes from the cottage, squadrons of jet skis bounced across the waters. These noisy nuisances had become the "must-have" accessory for the newly prosperous whenever they headed for the coast. The government was telling us the good times would go on and on. In the words of Prime Minister Bertie Ahern, "the boom just got boomier." Looking back now it is easy to conclude that it was an age of madness.

You could open the papers and read of how one property tycoon had taken 44 of his friends on a cruise on the yacht Christina O, formerly owned by Aristotle Onassis, to celebrate his wedding. This developer had plans to build what he referred to as Knightsbridge in Dublin, a vast apartment and shopping complex in a leafy suburb, next to Ireland's international rugby stadium.

He forked out 54m euro (£45m) an acre for the land and this before he had even secured planning permission. The entire cost of his wedding celebrations was estimated by one Dublin newspaper at 1.5m euros. A Michelin starred chef was on hand to cook dinner and Cristal champagne flowed all day. The tycoon's new bride, a well-known gossip columnist, was presented with a 300,000 euro diamond necklace. She was aware of the annoyance this display of largesse might have caused.

"I'm sure I'm getting up people's noses, but I don't care," she said.

Such was the temper of those giddy hours, in the middle of the wedding feast there was a phone call of congratulation from the aforementioned prime minister. Mr Ahern cast himself as the leader whose vision and energy had dragged Ireland into the 21st Century. When a few economists warned that the economy was heading for a hard landing, he asked aloud why such "cribbers and moaners" simply did not go and take their own life. The remarks caused outrage among the families of people who had taken their own lives and Ahern apologised. But he did not change his tune about the economy.

How distant, how immeasurably distant those years seem now.

Empty houses are a stark reminder of Ireland's boom times Ireland is a nation in the grip of a moral hangover, wondering how such an age of recklessness had come about and why it had been allowed to last so long. House prices have collapsed.

There are 600 so-called ghost estates filled with empty houses that nobody will buy. In a small country like Ireland they are very visible, a monument to the epic folly of an economic boom based on property. Unemployment in my home city of Cork has doubled in the last decade and with it has come a rise in the rate of suicide.

This week in Dublin a government minister admitted to me: "We got it wrong. We allowed the economy to overheat."

It was a frank statement but such honesty will not save his party from electoral demolition. The Fianna Fail party - or Soldiers of Destiny in English - was the most powerful political machine in the state for decades. Nothing is so pervasive now in Ireland as the feeling of betrayal.

Its founder, Eamon de Valera, an old revolutionary who fought against the British, once said that when he wanted to know what the people of Ireland felt, he had only to look into his own heart. The other day, on the doorsteps of Dublin South Central Constituency I heard one voter after another denounce not just Fianna Fail, but an entire political and financial elite in Ireland.

Nothing is so pervasive now in Ireland as the feeling of betrayal. I think we are on the verge of momentous change here. It will not be reflected in a radical shift in people's politics from right to left, but it could deliver something that has been almost entirely missing in Ireland since the foundation of the state in 1922. A real and widespread tradition of dissent, a people who will hold their leaders to account on a continuing basis and never, ever again believe that good times last forever.

Find out more about Fergal Keane's investigation into Ireland's crisis on BBC One's Panorama broadcast on Monday, 21 February, 2011 at 2030GMT.

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What they fail to mention is that the Bankers and Establishment rely on Collective Forgetfulness

(can you remember what the main news headlines were just three months ago?)

As the the so-called 'banking cycle" = roughly 19yrs loads of new citizens have grown up into the unknowing, innocent adults that the Elites will exploit over the next 19yrs by keeping them distracted from their theft by other means (such as pretending to let them have a share in new wealth creation) with no warnings given in their wholly owned media of times past!

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Eamon de Valera, the Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of the British Isles.

Anyway a quick history of Ireland:-

Freaky - you reminded me of this >>> B)

https://secure.wikim.../wiki/Newgrange

or

is it 'Thin' Lizzy standing sideways?

Edited by erranta

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Eamon de Valera, the Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of the British Isles.

Anyway a quick history of Ireland:-

NMAWorldEdition

You lost me there.

Spoke to alot of Irish people at a funeral yesterday. The state pensioner types were grumbling about having their pensions taxed. The farmers have had their best year ever. The stockbroker said business has been shit for three years, but it's just a question of getting through 2011, when growth should resume. The construction guy said his business in UK has kept its head above water, but no prospect of improvement + still difficult to get good property in Dublin + Irish ghost estates, which are more prevalent the further you travel from Dublin, will have to be bulldozed + his business in India is a pain in the **** because of finicky bureaucrats demanding brown envelopes.

They all thought the blanket guarantee to the banks had to stay in place, and that the EU plan for Ireland's future was unavoidable. Apparently, proposing default is only for economic illiterates, like Gerry Adams of Sinn Fein.

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Have HPC to donate £1 for every time they mention "bank fraud", "mortgage fraud" or "liar loans"?

And have myself and Eric (and a few others besides) begging coins off passers by? No thankyou ..

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They all thought the blanket guarantee to the banks had to stay in place, and that the EU plan for Ireland's future was unavoidable. Apparently, proposing default is only for economic illiterates, like Gerry Adams of Sinn Fein.

There are one and a half million households in the republic, and the national debt is reckoned to be about 95 billion euros and counting- so the illiterates may have a point.

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There are one and a half million households in the republic, and the national debt is reckoned to be about 95 billion euros and counting- so the illiterates may have a point.

Oh, I agree.

The line on Adams is that he was asked a few questions about economics and said he didn't know - so he's economically illiterate. He has managed the IRA for 35 years, so I guess he knows about logistics, budgets, and organisation.

There may be great significance in his choice to stand for election at this point. As far as I can tell Sinn Fein would tax business to death, but perhaps they have a more sophisticated understanding of the Irish situation - I don't know enough to judge. Almost anything is better than the proposals of the "knuckle down and get on with it" politicians.

Edited by okaycuckoo

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I noticed the Fine Gael party helped get a EU bailout package in place, with all the costs to the taxpayer that will entail, and so scuppered a good chance of letting the bankers go bust.

The politicians may pretend to be on different sides, but on economic questions, they're all on the same side.

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Have HPC to donate £1 for every time they mention "bank fraud", "mortgage fraud" or "liar loans"?

With Eric's 11,000 posts and each one mentioning 'liar loans' about 10 times, I make that that about £110,000 that Eric would have to donate :D

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With Eric's 11,000 posts and each one mentioning 'liar loans' about 10 times, I make that that about £110,000 that Eric would have to donate :D

Ah... what I meant was us giving the program makers £1 for every time they mentioned liar loans to make them pro-HPC.

I'm not saying that such as the BBC take backhanders from their pro HPI VIs.

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I noticed the Fine Gael party helped get a EU bailout package in place, with all the costs to the taxpayer that will entail, and so scuppered a good chance of letting the bankers go bust.

The politicians may pretend to be on different sides, but on economic questions, they're all on the same side.

Yep, SF are the only big party proposing default. All the rest of them seem to think that seeing the country bankrupted and ruined for a decade or two in order to keep the bankers and their chums afloat is a price worth paying.

Fine Gael have always been Fianna Fail's 'mini me' counterparts. Every few elections even the Irish electorate would get tired of the 'nose in trough' behaviour of FF and so would elect FG as a party that did more or less the same thing but on a smaller and less obvious scale, before voting FF back in at the next election having apparently forgotten what a bunch of crooks and fraudsters they were.

And then they'll turn around and wonder how the country got into such a mess ... You get the politicians you deserve and the Irish have been voting in crooks ever since the foundation of the state.

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The Irish Fairy Tale, would make an excellent new chapter in any updates of Charles Mackay's Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds.

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Bump.

It's tonight, in a few hours.

Will the BBC explain their credit bubble-burst?

Will the BBC explain we had the same bubble, and will burst next? :unsure:

:lol:

And Stephanie says they have already warned us... many times! Yeah, right.

:lol:

Her audacity is... beyond belief.

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Summary in the comments section says it all: http://www.zerohedge.com/article/fine-gael-preapres-win-irish-general-election-meet-irelands-new-taoiseach-enda-kenny#new

Sadly this does appear to be a case of coke v pepsi party politics. The Irish system is old and corrupt enough to prevent any major opposition--ideological and serious opposition--from even developing in the first place.

The global elite used Ireland as a manufacturing and property flipping platform, then stuck the ordinary folk with the bill for losses when it soured. Disgusting story, but who are they supposed to vote for? The whole deck appears stacked.

The Irish can kiss their children's dreams good-bye, unless a currently unknown path opens.

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Summary in the comments section says it all: http://www.zerohedge.com/article/fine-gael-preapres-win-irish-general-election-meet-irelands-new-taoiseach-enda-kenny#new

Sadly this does appear to be a case of coke v pepsi party politics. The Irish system is old and corrupt enough to prevent any major opposition--ideological and serious opposition--from even developing in the first place.

The global elite used Ireland as a manufacturing and property flipping platform, then stuck the ordinary folk with the bill for losses when it soured. Disgusting story, but who are they supposed to vote for? The whole deck appears stacked.

The Irish can kiss their children's dreams good-bye, unless a currently unknown path opens.

Only the Irish?! Not Britain??

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Just shows how bad it would need to get here for prices to fall 50%, bad really bad.

Ireland was built on nothing, Britain is different, property was not built on the same scale and the economy is far far stronger.

Just not going to happen here folks..Move on

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Just shows how bad it would need to get here for prices to fall 50%, bad really bad.

Ireland was built on nothing, Britain is different, property was not built on the same scale and the economy is far far stronger.

Just not going to happen here folks..Move on

:lol::lol::lol:

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  • 311 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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