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alexw

Cutting The Banker Subsidy.

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I think this is great, although I also think that loads of people will simply refuse to believe that something so blatant is allowed to be perpetrated by bankers.

I posted this on my facebook earlier this week, and a few people 'liked' it, but largely I think people just ignored it (I try to limit my rants to this forum, but people are probably already bored with my occasional anti-bank posts) or watched it and didn't care.

The video has still only had 7,000-ish views on youtube, so it's got a good way to go before it gets the uptake required to enter common awareness, but I think the positive money people are on to something big, and I hope they actually achieve something.

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Indeed.

Why are we forced to conduct almost all of our business using the bankers' expensive, ephemeral, rent-a-currency money tokens?

Let's issue publicly, for ourselves, a debt-free and persistently circulating means of exchange.

It's the obvious way to go, and the young, smart people at positivemoney.org.uk are on the case.

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Indeed.

Why are we forced to conduct almost all of our business using the bankers' expensive, ephemeral, rent-a-currency money tokens?

Let's issue publicly, for ourselves, a debt-free and persistently circulating means of exchange.

It's the obvious way to go, and the young, smart people at positivemoney.org.uk are on the case.

I don't want my IOUs to "persistently circulate", once issued I want them back asap so they can be torn up.

Rent-a-currency is fine by me, as long as the rental charges are set in a free and fair market place.

* On a seperate but related point, it's interesting that money reformers blast the banks for creating money "out of thin air", imagine if we could do this with all commodities, we'd be rich beyond our wildest dreams. Creating something from nothing is a modern miracle, so you should get down and pray to the God-like bankers!

Edited by Chef

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I don't want my IOUs to "persistently circulate", once issued I want them back asap so they can be torn up.

Rent-a-currency is fine by me, as long as the rental charges are set in a free and fair market place.

* As a seperate but related issue, it's interesting that money reformers blast the banks for creating money "out of thin air", imagine if we could do this with all commodities, we'd be rich beyond our wildest dreams. Creating something from nothing is a modern miracle, so you should get down and pray to the God-like bankers!

The proposed publicly issued currency would not be an IOU, any more than a persistently circulating tenner is now.

Persistently circulating, publicly issued, debt-free tokens are a much cheaper option for the community of money users (that's us) than the equivalent number of transient, debt-based tokens borrowed at interest from commercial bankers.

I don't mind money created out of thin air, it's very convenient and cheap to produce.

Who creates it, how they create it, and what they do with it are the important issues.

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I think this is great, although I also think that loads of people will simply refuse to believe that something so blatant is allowed to be perpetrated by bankers.

I posted this on my facebook earlier this week, and a few people 'liked' it, but largely I think people just ignored it (I try to limit my rants to this forum, but people are probably already bored with my occasional anti-bank posts) or watched it and didn't care.

The video has still only had 7,000-ish views on youtube, so it's got a good way to go before it gets the uptake required to enter common awareness, but I think the positive money people are on to something big, and I hope they actually achieve something.

The answer is so blindingly obvious I don't get why it hasn't happened.

Split up the banks. You'd have:

- utility-like lenders with an explicit guarantee from the government. They would have to hold large amounts of capital and would likely earn utility-like returns of approx 10% per annum. Remember what bankers used to be like? Bowler hats, briefcases and umbrellas.

- casino banks who would invest their own capital and could pretty much do what they like within reasonable regulatory restrictions but if you bet the ranch on red and it comes up black, bad luck. Likely returns would be the full range of -100% to +100% or indeed more if they bet the ranch on a single number... Arguably these should be partnerships so the "wealth generators" have an appropriate attitude towards risk

Obviously working in the former would be a good job but for such a steady profession there would be very little need for £1m bonuses.

The latter could pay themselves what they want. Just like gamblers. They earn it they spend it...

Problem solved - the banks hate the idea of this as the overall returns in the industry would go down as the utility part of banks allows the casino bits cheaper money to speculate with as things stand.

As for the banks causing the crisis. Not totally - they certainly helped it happen but the sad fact is we had several years of above trend growth as a result of the mad property binge that the UK (and almost all developed world countries) was on. Everyone was complicit - the government, the regulators, the bankers, property developers, agents and speculators and all them people off the TV. It felt good.

Anybody that "refinanced" to buy a car, an extension or go on holiday because they were "richer" as opposed to taking responsibility for their own future and saving needs to take the blame too.

The government took all the extra tax revenues and went on one big splurge. That felt good too.

This country's problem is not that bankers get paid too much. They do. But the problem is too many people do nothing and get paid by you. me and other taxpayers to do nothing (and many bankers do come under this category but I meant the workshy fops of this world). It is also that we are making less stuff that other countries want to buy.

So what do we need to do:

1) split up the banks - continue to subsidise the utility bits until they are back on their feet. There would be no justification for high remuneration here so everyone could stop whining.

2) stop paying people benefits if they sit on their backsides for years and indeed generations. Change the tax and benefits system so that there is an incentive to work and a penalty not to. Currently it appears to be the other way round for too many people.

3) start making things that people want to buy. Cheaper UK house prices will mean wages won't need to go up by as much so we will regain competitiveness. Bring on the crash. Stop encouraging the quarter of the population that goes to university and comes out with a 2:2 in media studies. It's a waste of their money and ours. Encourage the brightest 20% to continue going.

I'll get off my soapbox...

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Indeed.

Why are we forced to conduct almost all of our business using the bankers' expensive, ephemeral, rent-a-currency money tokens?

Let's issue publicly, for ourselves, a debt-free and persistently circulating means of exchange.

It's the obvious way to go, and the young, smart people at positivemoney.org.uk are on the case.

Problem - spot on.

Solution - retarded.

Everyone needs a banking licence.

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Real estate has to be the most heavily subsidised industry in the entire world, not banking.

Every single penny paid in rent to private landlords is an unearned government handout.

Maybe weapons and then real estate, but then there is a lot of killing to be done nowadays.

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Yeeeeeeeeeeeessss, he's back.

Lets go off topic!

No, let's go right to the heart of the matter.

There is no state.

There are no countries.

There are no families.

There is no we.

You can't accept this because of what it means to your sense of self. Yet, here I am once more.

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No, let's go right to the heart of the matter.

There is no state.

There are no countries.

There are no families.

There is no we.

You can't accept this because of what it means to your sense of self. Yet, here I am once more.

what about mirror neurons?

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We've been here a few times already (e.g. slime mould, brains, bee colonies etc ...).

So no point doing it again.

But welcome back, Injin, we've missed you. :)

I agree, no point doing it again.

You won't accept it anyway, given what it means if you accept it.

And no, you haven't.

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Thank you for the link.

It's (deliberately) misguided, as is most quasi determinism in this area. "I couldn't help it, my cells made me do it!!" is a pretty crap cop out of personal responsibility.

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No, let's go right to the heart of the matter.

There is no state.

There are no countries.

There are no families.

There is no we.

You can't accept this because of what it means to your sense of self. Yet, here I am once more.

So why do men wear trousers then?

Edited by (Blizzard)

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It's (deliberately) misguided, as is most quasi determinism in this area. "I couldn't help it, my cells made me do it!!" is a pretty crap cop out of personal responsibility.

Rubbish. If your cells make you do something then thats an excellent excuse, because you can't say no to your own cells.

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Rubbish. If your cells make you do something then thats an excellent excuse, because you can't say no to your own cells.

Exactly.

Now go and cut your own hand off, or commit suicide.

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  • 312 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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