Crime

[fiddlethefigures]

Now Gordon"no more boom and bust" Browns economic miracle is coming to an abrupt finale, will we see a rise in crime? I have noticed more programmes on Blairs Broadcasting Corporation dedicated to burglary and its prevention. Are they preparing the masses for this inevitable outcome?

[2005]

Will we see a rise in crime?

Yes

The social consequences of a recession will not be pretty but this isn't really discussed on this board. That is a shame because it will impact on us all and on the economy.

Expect rises in crime (theft), benefit fraud, false insurance claims, drug and alcohol fuelled crime etc.

There will be alot of anger and resentment.

[BuyingBear]

Will we see a rise in crime?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In a sense we've already seen an "intensification" of crime, for example burlgaries may be down because thieving pikeys do not see the incentive in nicking £25 DVD players that cannot be sold on, it's a function and sucess of the market not prevention. Or car crime may be down thanks to a bunch of engineers in Wolfsburg or Frankfurt making cars virtually un-nickable rather than anything to do with the police or Home Office. Other crime that doesn't respond to the market, or responds to the black market has taken off.

It's obvious that the incentive to nick stuff clearly hasn't disappeared even in the 'boom' times, it has just taken different routes that are often more rewarding, credit card crime has rocketed, gang or gun related violence thanks to drugs has gone up and so has violent crime. ID theft and even things like people selling their landlords house has occured, as has mortgage and loan fraud with stolen passports etc, that's aside from people lying about their incomes. Then we have modern day slavery with gang masters bringing in illegal immigrants and treating them like serfs, often with tacit approval of big business who know that the suppliers they deal with could not possibly meet their price demands without illegal labour.

So whereas somebody used to steal things before without harming anyone they've become desperate and now assult people for their car keys since it's the only way to steal cars, so that's recorded as violent crime rather than car crime, similiar things will probably happen when chip & pin requires them to actually get hold of your card. Or they will just cut out the middle man and drive a JCB into the bank. Thieves are more likely to break into houses for car keys and walk past TV's etc, is that recorded on burgarlies or car crime or something else?

So people who used to nick VHS recorders have moved onto greater things like drug dealing, ID fraud, credit card fraud, violent assult for carjacking and gun/knife related violence regards gangs... yet they're not overtly burglarising anymore so those figures are down.

It's like the inflation data, the British Crime Survey is the CPI of our time. We should really worry about the intensification of violence we've seen during the good times of growth and low unemployment, violent crime has risen by all measures, even according to the BCS. If that has occured when things are good what will happen when things are not so good?

Edited September 22, 2005 by BuyingBear

[justanewbie]

Will we see a rise in crime?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I believe we are seeing rising crime - but it is unrelated to ecnomic status.

Each year, schools are releasing ill-prepared, untutored, uneducated,

skill-less and soul-less children into the big wide world.

Unable and unwilling to achieve a decent living, they are resorting to

benefit fraud, petty crime and then serious crime to fund a lifestyle

which they neither deserve nor have earned.

Also, there are elements (I shall not state who they are) which are

increasingly using firearms to control the drug-marketing economy.

Drug marketing is responsible for a huge per centage of reported

and unreported crime and drugs are now cheaper and more plentiful.

In my opinion, lack of real tutoring and drug-marketing are the real

factors in crime.

[cprulesok]

I believe we are seeing rising crime - but it is unrelated to ecnomic status.

Also, there are elements (I shall not state who they are) which are

increasingly using firearms to control the drug-marketing economy.

Drug marketing is responsible for a huge per centage of reported

and unreported crime and drugs are now cheaper and more plentiful.

Why are you not stating who they are, we all know who they are, we see there crime activities on TV, last New Years day in Birmingham or the innocent young girl who was a witness to her mothers killing.

There have been reports on past Home Sec's desk about ethnic crime (reports that will never be published).

I would not say that all ethnics are gun criminals but it seems that where there is gun crime, ethnics are very frequently involved.

[Smell the Fear]

Another thread with a description of my crime experience in London.

I'm totally blase now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Where abouts in London have you witnessed these SAS style covert burglary operations?

Have to say where I live (Wandsworth) is very pleasant and I never see any trouble....

[IMD]

I would not say that all ethnics are gun criminals but it seems that where there is gun crime, ethnics are very frequently involved.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Erm... the more accurate connection would be that 'the ethnics' are frequently poor. Crime & poverty are very tightly linked.

[patprimer74]

Expect rises in crime (theft), benefit fraud, false insurance claims, drug and alcohol fuelled crime etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You missed out tax evasion. Strange that. Or, is that a right wing activity which you consider perfectly acceptable? After all, its rewards dwarf all the others that you mentioned.

p

[Grime- skint wouldbe ftb]

Crime has gone off the scale in London, and the reason is simple-- the police and security forces are stretched to the limit trying to prevent the next home-grown mulsim terrorist attack. Why else would they be seriously considering drafting in ex-army personnel to the force??

I walked to a tube station in an area very popular with toursits the other day, early evening. 4 people attepted to sell me drugs, there were plenty very unsavoury characters around, and on speaking with people I know who live nearby crack cocaine is openly sold and used on the nearby streets. One small anecdote among 1,000s you could give.

Yes, the hand-wringers blame socio-economic problems. But frankly this country has managed to cleverly import the problems. Let's hope there's going to be a big change in England and soon- ordinary English people are getting more and more vocal and angry about the situation, so perhaps the rot isn't going to be allowed to continue much longer.. but until Labour / Conservative MPs are losing their seats I fear nothing will change.

[El_Pirata]

Crime has gone off the scale in London, and the reason is simple-- the police and security forces are stretched to the limit trying to prevent the next home-grown mulsim terrorist attack. Why else would they be seriously considering drafting in ex-army personnel to the force??

I walked to a tube station in an area very popular with toursits the other day, early evening. 4 people attepted to sell me drugs, there were plenty very unsavoury characters around, and on speaking with people I know who live nearby crack cocaine is openly sold and used on the nearby streets. One small anecdote among 1,000s you could give.

Yes, the hand-wringers blame socio-economic problems. But frankly this country has managed to cleverly import the problems. Let's hope there's going to be a big change in England and soon- ordinary English people are getting more and more vocal and angry about the situation, so perhaps the rot isn't going to be allowed to continue much longer.. but until Labour / Conservative MPs are losing their seats I fear nothing will change.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

BBC programme "Murder Blues" last night showed how we are importing a crime epidemic from the slums of Kingston.

I am definitely not opposed to immigration being a semi-immigrant and the partner of an immigrant - but I don't think there would be anything wrong with being a bit more selective, would there?

[cprulesok]

Erm...  the more accurate connection would be that 'the ethnics' are frequently poor. Crime & poverty are very tightly linked.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Er !!! so drug crime is a poor mans game, dont think so, just visit your local tower block, check out the wheels, I cant afford to run a Beemer. The average ethnics got more money than me, I have to work my Bollo**s off whilst they get wealthy living in a Shi7 hole selling poison to the masses.

[iamconfusedagain]

Er !!! so drug crime is a poor mans game, dont think so, just visit your local tower block, check out the wheels, I cant afford to run a Beemer. The average ethnics got more money than me, I have to work my Bollo**s off whilst they get wealthy living in a Shi7 hole selling poison to the masses.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Poverty leads to crime.. The money comes later (if you are any good at it).

The whole drug/crime thing is just another great example problems caused by prohibition

[MarkG]

Poverty leads to crime

Yes, of course: it's not the criminal's fault he's committing a crime, it's all the fault of the evil rich people who've forced him into poverty.

It's no wonder this country is such a crime-infested crap-hole when so many people adopt that attitude to crime.

[cprulesok]

Poverty leads to crime.. The money comes later (if you are any good at it).

The whole drug/crime thing is just another great example problems caused by prohibition

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No sorry, I kinda see what you mean, but its the all to common propensity to start a career in crime, instead of going to college, further study maybe uni later and then settle into a piss poor job after years of being a student, like I did.

I've never earned any super dosh in my life (like the money you get from peddling drugs), but I'll be Fuc*ed if I'm gonna revert to crime in order to ponse about in a poxy Beemer.

[right_freds_dead]

Yes, of course: it's not the criminal's fault he's committing a crime, it's all the fault of the evil rich people who've forced him into poverty.

It's no wonder this country is such a crime-infested crap-hole when so many people adopt that attitude to crime.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

why not turn to crime.

after all. the land was all stolen before i was born.

[iamconfusedagain]

No that not what I mean.

Being poor is not an excuse for commiting a crime. Most people are decent and honest whether they live in a poor or rich community. But imagine that a small proportion of people are lazy and nasty people at heart or somewhere on that end of a grey scale. If you go to a nice school, do your exams etc get a nice job, it will be pretty likey that you have no need to sell drugs or rob banks, as it would be more trouble than it is worth. However If you go to a shit school where you see that the best way to make money is through immoral activities then I dare say that is what you will do.

Basicly living in a poor place will bring the sh** bags into plain view, so higher crime etc.

Rich sh** bags can make money (and be horrible) without any need to break the law.

I do agree that people should be held responsible for their actions and should not use "a bad childhood" as an excuse.

[IMD]

Yes, of course: it's not the criminal's fault he's committing a crime, it's all the fault of the evil rich people who've forced him into poverty.

It's no wonder this country is such a crime-infested crap-hole when so many people adopt that attitude to crime.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A fine bit of Tory thinking. Put this into perspective. Selling drugs is fairly easy money. Do it on a small scale and you can earn a decent amount of cash (not loads) without attracting too much attention from either the law or the bigger fish in the game. You can easily match a weeks wages in McD's for sitting on your sofa and having a few people pop by on the weekend to pick up some pills, powders or herbs on a friday before the weekend kicks off.

So: a) sit on your sofa and maybe risk a little jail time or work your **** off in a stinky kitchen for 5 days. Same financial reward. It's not hard to figure out.

It's not even an uneducated or stupid persons choice. To make money out of it you need a brain - most dealers fizz out because they don't watch their expenses, their backs or dissapear in their own stash. The ones with the BMWs have balls and brains - 'entrepeneurial spirit' in economic circles.

Drug dealing is a fake crime created by laws to prohibit people from doing what they want. The resultant drug-related crime exists and causes so much harm because prohibition puts the price up and puts control of the market in extreemely unscrupulous hands.

Logic: A heroin habit, cost to the NHS of needles & heroin: probably about £5/week (heroin is very very cheap to produce). Cost to society: £600/week in stolen goods and the misery associated with crime. Legalise pot and you can tax the 3-5 million users and give the treasury quite the boost.

But the Daily Mail won't stand for it because 'Drugs' are a convenient moral high ground they can shout down at people from. The stupidity and waste of it makes me sick.

Edited September 22, 2005 by IMD

[2005]

You missed out tax evasion.

Included in the 'et'c

Strange that.

Is it?

Or, is that a right wing activity which you consider perfectly acceptable?

Are you confusing me with someone else?

After all, its rewards dwarf all the others that you mentioned.

I agree

p

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What is your point?

Edited September 22, 2005 by 2005

[mhifoe]

Drug dealing is a fake crime created by laws to prohibit people from doing what they want. The resultant drug-related crime exists and causes so much harm because prohibition puts the price up and puts control of the market in extreemely unscrupulous hands.

Logic: A heroin habit, cost to the NHS of needles & heroin: probably about £5/week (heroin is very very cheap to produce). Cost to society: £600/week in stolen goods and the misery associated with crime. Legalise pot and you can tax the 3-5 million users and give the treasury quite the boost.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A friend of mine runs a small shop selling hippy clothes.

Until recently she also sold magic mushrooms, which were legal to sell due to a loophole in the law. Last month the law was changed to make them class A drugs.

Now instead of them being sold by a reputable shop which is paying taxes, they are sold by drug dealers and the government gets nothing.

[magictorch]

This week we hear that our Constabularies are to be centralised even further by having super forces. Why do all Firearm units now carry out training in house clearance drills and practice attacks from black helicopters and speed boats.

Good to see the village Bobby is alive and well

[BoredTrainBuilder]

This week we hear that our Constabularies are to be centralised even further by having super forces. Why do all Firearm units now carry out training in house clearance drills and practice attacks from black helicopters and speed boats.

Good to see the village Bobby is alive and well

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

At the moment the police are ridiculously decentralised which is grossly inefficient, typical sloppy unaccountable public sector management. At the very least they need proper nationwide or better still worldwide systems which actually work.

I would personally prefer a national police force which was effective. Money saved and have 40 or 50 different little independent teams could be spent instead on having more village Bobbies.

You may be worried about the police therefore being more powerful but I am more worried about the threat from criminals.

Edited September 22, 2005 by BoredTrainBuilder

[magictorch]

No way boredtrainbuilder!

Less accountable ParaMilitary legislative nutcases.

Hey why dont we have one QRF team in each village just in case the locals start getting restless!

[magictorch]

I should start ranting about how the real criminals are in No.10 but I dont have the time anymore.

[BuyingBear]

At the moment the police are ridiculously decentralised which is grossly inefficient, typical sloppy unaccountable public sector management. At the very least they need proper nationwide or better still worldwide systems which actually work.

I would personally prefer a national police force which was effective.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What happends if it becomes corrupt? Sometimes distinct and separate forces hold something even more important than efficiency.

[BoredTrainBuilder]

Hey why dont we have one QRF team in each village just in case the locals start getting restless!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A great idea, many parts of the country would benefit from this.