Imperial College Raises Tuition Fees To £9000 Per Year

[theonlywayisdown]

Checkout the BBC comments section, the follow is a typical post of someone who just doesn't get it about debt, one of the sheeple who believes the government's policy of if you don't get a decent job after graduating you don't need to pay off the debt...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-12475227?postId=106433814#comment_106433814

'airheadgreg

7 HOURS AGO

£9,000 for a fantastic degree from a fantastic institution and you don't pay a penny until you're earning over £21k after graduation? Bargain!

Why do people get so worked up about the increased tuition fees, it doesn't impact your financial situation whilst studying and if you don't think you will be able to pay back the loan then you shouldn't be on the course.'

methinks some of these idiots, describing £9000 (its per year) as a 'bargain', have never even earned over £9000 per year in their short lives!

Edited February 16, 2011 by theonlywayisdown

[HPC001]

Jobs are gotten mostly via contacts and not merit. Admittedly I don't know enough about ICL to say whether it's worth the £9k. However, from the point of view of a middle class kid with parental backing it may well be, given the potential for networking.

Edited February 16, 2011 by HPC001

[theonlywayisdown]

Jobs are gotten mostly via contacts and not merit. Admittedly I don't know enough about ICL to say whether it's worth the £9k. However,fFrom the point of view of a middle class kid with parental backing it may well be, given the potential for networking.

i know plenty of people who managed to get decent jobs just because they knew someone, or their dad/uncle was head of this department in this company etc. In some cases, those people who had contacts, just barely passed their degrees!

Why bother, really? Go back 20 years, and the majority of jobs didn't need a degree to get in. People either worked their way up, and or networked. The IT industry is full of people who never went to uni - they learnt on the job. But since the game has changed, you need a degree with a piece of paper that says 2:1 or 1st just to be able to even apply for a graduate IT job.

[HPC001]

Why bother, really? Go back 20 years, and the majority of jobs didn't need a degree to get in. People either worked their way up, and or networked. The IT industry is full of people who never went to uni - they learnt on the job.

Employers don't want to train people who are unqualified for the most part. I'm too old and experienced for an apprenticeship or "intern" post now. I chose my own course carefully and only after spending 9 months unable to secure employment\apprenticeships. The vocational nature and the certifications thrown in on top were the clincher, otherwise I probably would have picked Compsci at an Imperial-esque institution. Plus the tutors were ex-industry themselves - ironically the course leader had worked in the banking industry just before the crash.

But since the game has changed, you need a degree with a piece of paper that says 2:1 or 1st just to be able to even apply for a graduate IT job.

You could say the same about needing MCPs for a helpdesk job, NVQ for childcare\social care, H&S\HC for kitchen jobs. Every job these days has some piece of paper associated with it. Since it takes money to make money, and one doesn't usually have it to start with, borrowing is the only option.

Again going back to the middle class example, unlike me, they have a fall back option so they can take a risk I wouldn't consider.

Edited February 16, 2011 by HPC001

[Bruce Banner]

My daughter went to Imperial, the really expensive bit was four years accommodation in Central London.

[RichB]

My daughter went to Imperial, the really expensive bit was four years accommodation in Central London.

Really? I found it was the drinking in london bit. Accomodation was cheap as chips. Though, admittedly rather fine, pub based chips.

Imperial ranks in the top few universities in the country...

[opt_out]

My daughter went to Imperial, the really expensive bit was four years accommodation in Central London.

I went there. The teaching was poor. All you are paying for is the reputation. The standard is maintained by only allowing the cleverest in of course, it's not difficult.

Lots of foreign students pay large sums to attend, why would they want to fill the place up with UK students paying £3k.

I wouldn't pay £9k/year for my Engineering degree. Medicine maybe.

Edited February 16, 2011 by opt_out

[cells]

Imperial ranks in the top few universities in the country...

Who of you that went to uni use your uni education to its full extent at your place of work.

Come on hands up!

So few people use their uni education later on in life that it is clear it is unless for most people.

Uni is for academics who want to learn to a very high level for r&d and just because it is human (to some)

Every job can be learnt in the job even medicine & dentistry & teaching itself.

So uni should be for only the very few. Perhaps as few as 5%

However mire should be done to improve secondary and college education

[RichB]

Actually its for people who either:

1. Want to ****** about a bit with others of the same age whilst moving between childhood and adulthood

2. Want to learn to think and analyse with a little more rigour than school teaches, and which an employer will usually consider as something you should already know.

Incidentally most employers seem to want to spend a grand total of ****** all training staff these days - no more jobs for life it would seem.

[LuckyOne]

Here is a global ranking of engineering / science / technology universities :

http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2010/subject-rankings/technology

1 Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT)

2 Stanford University

3 University of California, Berkeley

4 University of Cambridge

5 California Institute of Technology (Caltech)

6 Imperial College London

7 The University of Tokyo

8 ETH Zurich (Swiss Federal Institute of Technology)

9= National University of Singapore (NUS)

9= University of Oxford

11 Tsinghua University

12 Carnegie Mellon University

13 Georgia Institute of Technology

14 University of Toronto

15 University of California, Los Angeles

16 University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign

17 Kyoto University

18 Delft University of Technology

19= University of Michigan

19= Cornell University

21 Princeton University

22 Harvard University

23 Tokyo Institute of Technology

24 KAIST - Korea Advanced Institute of Science & Technology

25 The University of Manchester

I don't know what the fees are like at all of the universities but scanning the list and having a rough idea about fees at some of the universities, it would seem that Imperial at £ 9k / year is an absolute bargain.

I know that these ranking exercises are not foolproof but they do contain more than a grain of truth.

[MrFlibble]

I wouldn't pay £9k/year for my Engineering degree. Medicine maybe.

Me neither.

We have a family member who is looking to give the degree option as miss now due to the fee's. Sad that the older generation got the option of a degree for free but the younger generation are now expected to pay for the self same thing. Still much the same can be said for housing, the younger generation are expected to pony up 3-4 times what the previous generation paid. Keep screwing over the young, they are good for it, until they get pissed off that it and start to take action.

[the shaping machine]

Actually its for people who either:

1. Want to ****** about a bit with others of the same age whilst moving between childhood and adulthood

2. Want to learn to think and analyse with a little more rigour than school teaches, and which an employer will usually consider as something you should already know.

Incidentally most employers seem to want to spend a grand total of ****** all training staff these days - no more jobs for life it would seem.

Do universities teach number two now? They didn't when I went through 20 years ago.

.

[theonlywayisdown]

Here is a global ranking of engineering / science / technology universities :

http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2010/subject-rankings/technology

I don't know what the fees are like at all of the universities but scanning the list and having a rough idea about fees at some of the universities, it would seem that Imperial at £ 9k / year is an absolute bargain.

I know that these ranking exercises are not foolproof but they do contain more than a grain of truth.

you're looking at further education in the UK from a viewpoint that is - business first, education second. Seems to me like education in the US is business firstmost.

Similar in the way which the economy got severely screwed when everyone sees housing as an investment/way to make some money rather than a place to live.

[Brave New World]

Actually its for people who either:

1. Want to ****** about a bit with others of the same age whilst moving between childhood and adulthood

2. Want to learn to think and analyse with a little more rigour than school teaches, and which an employer will usually consider as something you should already know.

Incidentally most employers seem to want to spend a grand total of ****** all training staff these days - no more jobs for life it would seem.

So true.

It is a lifestyle choice for many. Obviously it helps at the age of 16 or 17 to be told you will earn a lot more just for turning up and getting a 2.2 from any ex-poly................oh and the interest on your loan is "hardly anything".

I made the mistake of doing an English degree with my ABB at A Level. What a waste. Unless you wanted to be a teacher or hack it was worthless. In hindsight i shold have gone into my chosen profession at 18. And i think this is the case for the majority of 'Uneh' students today.

If the masses want to go to University than fine but they should pay for it on certain degrees.

[bpw]

There is a flaw in the idea that IC and others can charge American university level fees. Graduates from MIT, which is no better than IC for many degree courses, graduate with engineering degrees and then earn circa $70kp.a. In the more expensive states, I have been told they start on $90k. Starting on say 70k in Houston means you start life covered in gravy.

Can someone tell me what a typical IC grad earns these days? It's also very clear there is a two tier career path here in the US. The best graduate schools attract the best employers... unlike the UK were hoards of graduates from IC, Oxford etc., end up working for likes of WS Atkins and Rendell Palmer and co. - these are dead-end dreadful employers.

The increase in fees will have one major effect - more students from overseas will fill the courses. Say goodbye Mr. Chips.

[TwoWolves]

The increase in fees will have one major effect - more students from overseas will fill the courses. Say goodbye Mr. Chips.

Mostly Chinese and Indian I'll wager, they'll have all the top jobs and young English children will be serving them coffee in Starbucks. Neo-Liberal end-game.

[bpw]

The ratio Brit/Overseas was around 70/30 when I went there. No idea what it is today, but one thing was clear, they were a lot harder working and better at cheating than the Brits. They also syndicated on assignments to bump up their class work scores. One of the good things about IC was relatively few marks were for coursework - you final degree was mostly exam result based. That leveled the field, and by the end of the three years most of the unfair advantages (people from private schools, with extracurricular tuition, coached for S-levels, etc.) were ironed out. It left me with the impression that IC should seek the best from wherever they came as BS. I would limit the ratio to no more than 30%.

Mostly Chinese and Indian I'll wager, they'll have all the top jobs and young English children will be serving them coffee in Starbucks. Neo-Liberal end-game.

[Alberta Tatlock]

Mostly Chinese and Indian I'll wager, they'll have all the top jobs and young English children will be serving them coffee in Starbucks. Neo-Liberal end-game.

I was in the UK last year when a survey of the 'The world's best universities' was published. While getting a coffee in the local Starbucks, I overheard the female barista (late twenties) pointing out to the other staff that her university (UCL) was in the top 2 or three.

I feared the irony of her bragging was lost on her.

(Good on her for working though)

[interestrateripoff]

The explosion in numbers doing degrees was purely to get youth unemployment down, nothing more. The downside of this policy is qualification inflation in certain jobs where a degree is now needed where previously you could have got a foot in with good O-Level, GCSE or A-Levels.

£27,000 basic debt + the interest on top now makes a degree for most people totally unaffordable. I have no idea what the end cost will be of the loans but it wouldn't surprise me once you factor in living costs you might leave Uni with £40k + of debts and if it's like a mortgage your going to be paying back ultimately something like £80,000 if you ever earn enough to repay it fully.

Still it's a bargain.

[theonlywayisdown]

The explosion in numbers doing degrees was purely to get youth unemployment down, nothing more. The downside of this policy is qualification inflation in certain jobs where a degree is now needed where previously you could have got a foot in with good O-Level, GCSE or A-Levels.

£27,000 basic debt + the interest on top now makes a degree for most people totally unaffordable. I have no idea what the end cost will be of the loans but it wouldn't surprise me once you factor in living costs you might leave Uni with £40k + of debts and if it's like a mortgage your going to be paying back ultimately something like £80,000 if you ever earn enough to repay it fully.

Still it's a bargain.

Yep, totally a bargain! compared to those American Unis which can charge you $50k per year! Young people of the UK should rejoice, at least its not as bad as in the States.

Young people should also be damn grateful that they live in the UK, not some impoverished state like many countries in Africa or the Middle East. Should be grateful also that they've got access to clean water supplies, and food being plentiful.

['Bart']

£9,000 for a fantastic degree from a fantastic institution and you don't pay a penny until you're earning over £21k after graduation? Bargain!

There's a sucker born every minute

P. T. Barnum (attributed)

[bpw]

The rankings are a nonsense of course - better to categorize them as A, B and C with all the above in the A list.

The Chinese now have there own ranking system and IC comes way down the list at 100 and something.

Perhaps they are more objective

I was in the UK last year when a survey of the 'The world's best universities' was published. While getting a coffee in the local Starbucks, I overheard the female barista (late twenties) pointing out to the other staff that her university (UCL) was in the top 2 or three.

I feared the irony of her bragging was lost on her.

(Good on her for working though)

[theonlywayisdown]

@Bart - if you're gonna quote me, at least get it right

[Jetset78]

Someone has to pay - there is no such thing as free university funding. Either we (the taxpayer) funds it or the student who's getting the education pays for it.

I am in full support of the fees being paid by the students. University should be for superior minds needing a quality education, not for little Jonny to spend 3 years on the pish doing a photography degree.

By making students pay they will have to focus on whether the cost is worth the reward. It is wrong to encourage all youth to go to university as you end up with a situation we have now where everyone has one and the degree has been devalued.

[Unsafe As Houses]

Universities are going to charge as much as they possibly can for all their courses from 2012.

A situation where top universities charge 9k a year and less reputable universities charge less is probably not going to happen. Cost will be construed as a measure of quality of universites, so universities will endeavour to be able to charge the full 9k a year as soon as the leading universities finalise their plans to charge this amount.

For the same reason, with possibly a few exceptions, all courses within universities will likely cost the same. There won't be a istuation where a geography degree is cheaper than a history degree at the same university - that would upset too many academics.

I work in a new university and this seems tthe widely predominant view of staff I have discussed this with.