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If Potential Ftb's Banded Together, Could We Crash The Market?


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We need a relatively unified (and simple) message, perhaps some adages. Think how deeply ingrained "Rent money is dead money", and "Can't go wrong with bricks and mortar".

I think to dispell these we'd do well to come up with our own that we can consitently slip in (and then expand upon and link to more comprehensive explanations).

Perhaps expanding out the existing ones

"Rent money is dead money... just like the interest on a mortage"

"Can't go wrong with bricks and mortar (as long as you don't mind being stuck in negative equity for a decade)"

Some play on existing ones:

"What goes up (house = 7x salary) must come down (house = 3x salary)"

And perhaps a more 'angry'

"(Real) House price inflation is intergenerational theft"

Edited by Guest
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Come on, we're not even unified on here - there are definite "Build more" vs "Don't need to build more" camps.

OK Riedquat, if you think this is silly, or pointless, then why don't you stop wasting your time in this thread, and just f off? :)

.

Edited by Tired of Waiting
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:unsure::blink: Cool yer boots man! That was an "mmm...." of appreciation! :unsure:

Sorry Eric, my bad, a bit of smiley misinterpretation. :ph34r:

Anyway, been creating again this evening, if you like the following feel free to use them. If you don't, please post suggestions for improvements, or other ideas. I'm no graphic artist (that much is probably painfully apparent!) but will try most things. I've also uploaded the lottery one to photobucket to make it more visible to guests.

HLweb.jpg

pyramid_web.jpg

More to come, with any luck.

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I would add that if we made a decent push with a Readers Comments campaign it would act to spread awareness/visibility of the issues, and hence help build up more support and motivation to back or participate in other actions such as a Protest march/meeting, etc.

I think you're exactly right when you talk about the discourse environment and the impact it has - I think there is a tendancy to underestimate it on here. Its so easy to add a few comments on newspaper articles, more people should get involved (I try and add at least a couple a week) and respect to you for pushing others to do this and leading by example :)

With respect to the other comments on here, IMO I find HPC more of a talking shop as opposed to a campaigning organisation (although I wish it wasn't). Looking at the Priced Out website the other day and they've got their sh1t together, they look organised, they do press releases, respond to policies on their website and importantly have spokespeople.

What they don't have though as far as I can tell is numbers - there must be 1000s come through here every day, including a significant number who are keen to get involved in things - just one bloke thinking here but wonder what would be the possibility of some kind of merger?

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I think you're exactly right when you talk about the discourse environment and the impact it has - I think there is a tendancy to underestimate it on here. Its so easy to add a few comments on newspaper articles, more people should get involved (I try and add at least a couple a week) and respect to you for pushing others to do this and leading by example :)

With respect to the other comments on here, IMO I find HPC more of a talking shop as opposed to a campaigning organisation (although I wish it wasn't). Looking at the Priced Out website the other day and they've got their sh1t together, they look organised, they do press releases, respond to policies on their website and importantly have spokespeople.

What they don't have though as far as I can tell is numbers - there must be 1000s come through here every day, including a significant number who are keen to get involved in things - just one bloke thinking here but wonder what would be the possibility of some kind of merger?

Thanks NEO72, appreciate your comments.

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Thanks.

This any better?

pyramid_v2_web.jpg

I think the image of a solid strong pyramid, built in stone or concrete, sends the wrong ... feeling. Perhaps some play with a "house of cards" could be useful? Something like:

SuperStock_1236-104.jpg

house-of-cards-on-white-background--thumb4664063.jpg

cards-falling-top_~394174.jpg

Or below, the bottom left photo, that "young FTB" under a house / pyramid of cards?

playing-cards-main.jpg

house%20of%20cards.jpg

Or a collapsing one? http://economicrot.blogspot.com/2008/11/las-vegas-collapsing-house-of-cards.html

.

Edited by Tired of Waiting
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Indeed - the importance of the discourse environment in the property market should not be underestimated. Look at the development of economic theory and how the role of discourse has been acknowledged - see the link to my (very) old thread in the Market Psychology section of the HPC website in my previous comment in this thread.

The VI's during the boom years (and indeed now) did not just rely on economic/market fundamentals to do the work for them in generating and/or making the most of the credit boom for the property market. What the general public believe to be the 'truth', 'common sense' of the property market and house prices plays a very important part in terms of their thinking and actions in the market. And sure enough the VI's used TV (Property P0rn), newspapers, adverts, etc. to incredibly good effect ..... and they are still doing it.

We, of course don't have the huge resources the VI's have for influencing the discourse environment about property and house prices. But, we do have access to the internet and are able to place our discourse about house prices on nationally read Newspaper websites. Very large numbers of people read the National Newspaper websites and a great many people read the Readers Comments. Indeed, many people go to the websites to read the Readers Comments in particular. Through this we have access to a very large audience that costs us nothing in terms of money, doesn't involve the complexities of trying to arrange and motivate a Protest March, and involves no more time, resources and effort than required to add a comment here on the HPC website (other than the initial registering on a Newspaper Website so that you can add Readers Comments).

We can reach a very large audience. And if we do this daily, week after week, month after month the message will be noticed, discussed, debated and spread further through conversations at work, at home and in the pub, etc.

Journalists and Editors keep tabs on Readers Comments and so, if Readers Comments putting forward our views on house prices keep appearing every day, week and month it will become a story worth reporting in itself. And, no doubt, all this would generate new supporters for our views from the public who would then add their own contributions to Readers Comments - i.e. their is the potential for a snow-ball effect (if we keep up the effort!). Also, as I mentioned previously, the main Political Parties keep tabs on the public's response to and feelings about key social, political, economic issues via monitoring Readers Letters and Readers Comments in National and Local Newspapers (I take this from colleagues in the Politics Dept at the University where I am an academic). The other audience that will pick up on this, if we make the effort, is Estate Agents and indeed vendors in the property market.

If we make the effort the discourse environment in Readers Comments about house prices will be infused with 'house prices are going to crash big time', 'boom time house prices have and are causing huge problems for the economy and our everyday lives', 'house prices need to fall', etc., etc. As I said before this will then spread out to the general environment and will become perceived as being common sensical and true.

I support the other efforts for action, spreading the word, etc. Using Readers Comments on National and Local Newspaper websites, however, is something we can do now for very little time, effort or resources - but with the potential for real impact. If we had 50 - 100 of us doing this on a daily, or even every few days, we really could reach a very big audience - particulary if we just build it into our daily routines and just keep going with it as the weeks and months pass.

Surely its worth a go?

+1000 to that Alfie, the need for robust public discourse on this subject is very much needed, I think you have just articulated my feeling on the subject much better than I can :)

I agree that an easy and positive action is for increasing numbers of us to get our (admittedly very varied) views out there, readers comments (both writing and rating), forum participation, Facebook comments, tweets etc.

I also agree it has a potential snowball effect, increasingly the media are likely to have opinion pieces and articles on the social and economic harm of high house prices, it is happening already and the more we publicly debate the more momentum it can build.

Who knows, perhaps we could actually reach a point where there is very high level and open public discourse on how housing wealth is spread increasingly disproportionally, how it saps our economic potential as a country, how our 30 year model of house prices ever increasing in real term (though a bit bumpy) places ever increasing hardship on the new entrants, i.e. the young and otherwise new to the housing market.

Perhaps through robust public discourse we could actually see the public in general coming to understand how broken our current economic system is in this regard. And one day, maybe, when my children, who are now 3, are adults I will hear them say "House prices can only ever increase in line with wages over the long term, any other way would be economically unstable and socially unfair.", or "House prices always stay the same (in real terms).", rather than "I've made £50k from my house in the last year alone, you can't go wrong with bricks and mortar, everyone knows they double every 7 years.", and when they say this they would not be seen as pariah, they would not be the black sheep of the flock, or the heretic who dares speak against the God of House Price Wealth, but rather someone with common sense who speaks a well known truth.

On a side note, housepricecrash.co.uk currently ranks 6/10 on Google page rank, doing a couple of searches now, HPC appears 7th in the search results of "House Price" in Google, that is pretty good. Using "House Cost" and Wikipedia entry on affordable housing is first and then PricedOut.

Including a link to a relevant thread (or the main page) on various online sources where appropriate can assist in getting that up there somewhat. Also it generally scores well on various Social Bookmarking sites (Delicious, XMarks etc), I would recommend bookmarking, tagging and rating HPC there too.

Attracting more people to HPC for it's wealth of information and opinions can only a good thing in my opinion.

Edited by Guest
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Nice idea. I'll give that a go later, although it might be beyond my capabilities!

I thought you could just use some photo from the internet, copy/paste job. But perhaps they have copyrights stuff?

Well, we can always build a little house of cards, and take a photo. One very high would send the most "unstable" feeling! (We can use bluetack! Discretely, of course. :D )

Edited by Tired of Waiting
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Some good ideas coming through!

One idea I had ages ago for a poster/leaflet was to use a photo of a typical house/property that 3 times the average income bought when house prices were at their long term, non-boom, trend levels Vs a photo of a typical property that 3 times the average income would buy now. The visual images, and reality of just how out of kilter house prices are would be stark and obvious from the 2 photos. There could also be a line or two indicating that house prices, after a boom, always end up falling back to their long term trend levels again and that the time to (re)-enter the property market will be when 3 times the average income buys you something like the house you see representing what 3 times the average income bought before the boom time prices.

So, what would it be? A 3 bed semi Vs a studio flat?

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