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Debt Based Monetary System Question


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First random thought - if gold standards worked, we wouldn't be here.

Second random thought - if you put a gold standard back in, we'll be right back here in no time.

Third random thought - gold standards forced people to behave in the same way that stella artois stops hangovers.

those are not random thoughts, because I've had exactly the same thoughts.

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The arrangements don't "exist" seperate from people doing stuff.

That does make sense - goodness me you have changed!

Its a bit like saying - there are no evil men just evil deeds.

Mansoor is saying, look at the nodes of the network - there is a collective, and you are saying, no, look at the connections between nodes, because its only the connections that mean anything.

From there I presume you would argue that since a connection is always bilateral there therefore cannot be any notion of a collective of nodes.

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That does make sense - goodness me you have changed!

Its a bit like saying - there are no evil men just evil deeds.

Mansoor is saying, look at the nodes of the network - there is a collective, and you are saying, no, look at the connections between nodes, because its only the connections that mean anything.

From there I presume you would argue that since a connection is always bilateral there therefore cannot be any notion of a collective of nodes.

Bingo.

It's a perception failure, which some evil men are using to cover evil deeds.

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Right.

You philosophy is very similar to:

Theory of knowledge and reality according to Mahayana Buddhism is as follows (roughly):

a. Beliefs generate thoughts

b. thoughts generate action

c. actions create our reality

d. there is a feedback loop as perceived reality modifies beliefs

e. rinse and repeat (as you would say)

The above model (I believe) is more or less consistent with modern science.

Where Buddhism adds value is as follows:

1. According to the buddha human beings are flesh, bones, tendon, hair, etc. + thoughts + beliefs

2. Note number 1 above does not contain any idea of a continuing self or a “soul” or anything like that

3. The belief in “I” independent of what has been stated in number 1 above is a “false” concept of our minds. It is the creation of the mind.

4. We should conceive of ourselves as machines “thinking” and no more than that (no soul or “I” really exists apart from the body and thoughts and beliefs).

5. Belief in soul or “I” independent of what has been stated in point 1 above is a sign of a confused mind. This confusion is the cause of all un-happiness.

6. Through proper understanding of operations of the mind, meditation and reflection this confusion can end.

7. The end of this confusion is “perfect knowledge” about oneself and removes the possibility of pain or suffering resulting in perfect bliss (nirvana).

The buddha lived around 500 BC in northern india.

By the way I don't accept this model at all. My heart feels heart too easily to not believe in a soul. I am way to emotional to think of myself as a "machine only".

Mansoor

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You philosophy is very similar to:

Theory of knowledge and reality according to Mahayana Buddhism is as follows (roughly):

a. Beliefs generate thoughts

b. thoughts generate action

c. actions create our reality

d. there is a feedback loop as perceived reality modifies beliefs

e. rinse and repeat (as you would say)

Mansoor

Really?

Real stuff exists

We notice real stuff

We act in reality

We think about reality

We think badly a lot of the time

We operate on "corrupt/mistaken" thoughts rather than reality from this point

noticing we've got it wrong is very difficult.

I don't think beliefs alter reality at all, unless there is action. That action will be subject to reality.

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Bingo.

OK got it.

Now, lets assume nodes A through Y all work for node Z. We can now say that A through Y are a collective, since they share a given pattern of connection - to whit, Z's employees.

No magic here injin, just common sense.

A collective is any set of nodes sharing a given connection pattern.

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I don't think beliefs alter reality at all, unless there is action. That action will be subject to reality.

Beliefs most likely will lead to action most of the time for most people!

If I believe you should pay child support and I take it from you by force I have just created a reality of sort (of course within the confines of the laws of physics).

Yes. Beliefs do alter reality!

Mansoor

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First random thought - if gold standards worked, we wouldn't be here.

Gold standards aren't all that great cos gold is a market and markets can be cornered. Who is too say that WW1 and WW2 combined, never acted as the biggest gold cornering scam so far in human history. Before the wars the gold was dispersed all over the world. After the wars the USA owned all the frigging gold and forced the world onto the Bretton Woods system, which was a crucial stepping stone towards the modern day 'dollar standard', which has given the US a magic cheque book to print more and more of these things whilst nearly every other country in the world scraps it out to prevent thier own currencies from appreciating against the dollar (appreciation of an export lead nation's currency damages the competitiveness of thier own economies). The way in which foreign governments prevent thier currencies from appreciating against the dollar (with appreciation against the dollar hindering the development of thier industrial/productive capacity), is to soak up surplus dollars by printing more cash. The central banks then invest thier dollars ultimately in US dollar denominated assets, mostly US government bonds. Not only does this result in inflationary trends in the foreign nations own economy, but also further facilitates the deficit debt based economic 'growth' of the US economy. It has seemed for much of the past 30 years that the USA economy can really have its cake and eat it!

The opening poster was asking why a gold standard prevented the run-away inflation that we have today, not whether or not it was a great thing. Also, the gold standards always have 'worked'. It was only during times when nations suspended/cheated the gold standard that things stopped working.

Second random thought - if you put a gold standard back in, we'll be right back here in no time.

No. If their is a return to the gold standard it will be after a catastrophic economic collapse that puts nearly everyone into the gutter, and whichever financial cartel promotes the return of the gold standard to replace the evils of FIAT currency which caused the catastrophe to begin with, will be the financial cartel that will invariably own most of the worlds gold. It wont be a soveriegn government, but private bankers who will own all the gold, and thus a return to a gold standard would mean that they own the entire world economy by default leading swiftly to world governance and a financially controlled global dictatorship.

Third random thought - gold standards forced people to behave in the same way that stella artois stops hangovers.

No. That is yet more CREDIT that acts in such a way that the only way too stave off some terrible times in the creation of yet more debt/asset bubbles.

Edited by Retardstic
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OK got it.

Now, lets assume nodes A through Y all work for node Z. We can now say that A through Y are a collective, since they share a given pattern of connection - to whit, Z's employees.

No magic here injin, just common sense.

A collective is any set of nodes sharing a given connection pattern.

But they don't share anything. Each one is a pair with no relation to the others (if you look close enough)

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Beliefs most likely will lead to action most of the time for most people!

If I believe you should pay child support and I take it from you by force I have just created a reality of sort (of course within the confines of the laws of physics).

Yes. Beliefs do alter reality!

Mansoor

But your belief must come from somwhere and that somewhere can only be reality.

The fact that people have got something very important very wrong is where we started.

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But they don't share anything. Each one is a pair with no relation to the others (if you look close enough)

Doesn't matter. Do you accept that reasoning about the whole set of similar connections is a useful activity, if for example you wanted to intuit something about Mr Z's likely future behavior or about group A-Y's likely future behavior?

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Gold standards aren't all that great cos gold is a market and markets can be cornered. Who is too say that WW1 and WW2 combined, never acted as the biggest gold cornering scam so far in human history. Before the wars the gold was dispersed all over the world. After the wars the USA owned all the frigging gold and forced the world onto the Bretton Woods system, which was a crucial stepping stone towards the modern day 'dollar standard', which has given the US a magic cheque book to print more and more of these things whilst nearly every other country in the world scraps it out to prevent thier own currencies from appreciating against the dollar (appreciation of an export lead nation's currency damages the competitiveness of thier own economies). The way in which foreign governments prevent thier currencies from appreciating against the dollar (thus hindering the development of thier industrial/productive capacity), is to soak up surplus dollars by printing more cash. The central banks then invest thier dollars ultimately in US dollar denominated assets, mostly US government bonds. Not only does this result in inflationary trends in the foreign nations own economy, but also further facilitates the deficit debt based economic 'growth' of the US economy. It has seemed for much of the past 30 years that the USA economy can really have its cake and eat it!

The opening poster was asking why a gold standard prevented the run-away inflation that we have today, not whether or not it was a great thing. Also, the gold standards always have 'worked'. It was only during times when nations suspended/cheated the gold standard that things stopped working.

And they always get suspended and cheated. Every single gold standard has dropped into this sort of mess. 100% of them.

No. If their is a return to the gold standard it will be after a catastrophic economic collapse that puts nearly everyone into the gutter, and whichever financial cartel promotes the return of the gold standard to replace the evils of FIAT currency which caused the catastrophe to begin with, will be the financial cartel that will invariably own most of the worlds gold. It wont be a soveriegn government, but private bankers who will own all the gold, and thus a return to a gold standard would mean that they own the entire world economy by default leading swiftly to world governance and a financially controlled global dictatorship.

hate to break it to you, but a gold standard is a fiat curreny regime. Fiat means forced.

No. That is yet more CREDIT that acts in such a way that the only way too stave off some terrible times in the creation of yet more debt/asset bubbles.

Sure, sure.

But gold doesn't stop this. Never has, never will.

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