Pole Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 When will the UK people wake up, get up from their knees and refuse to be raped by investment bankers??? Who needs those parasites anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shermanator Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 When will the UK people wake up, get up from their knees and refuse to be raped by investment bankers??? Who needs those parasites anyway? Too many sheeple, some HPCers included, have been brainwashed into thinking that banks and banksters are vital to the UK's security - like nuclear weapons or something. Hence you get Daily Fail folks going "oh we have to bail out the banks otherwise the ATMs will stop working" and such like. The traditional Right have utterly failed to neuter the banksters, let's hope the Left wing students and anti-cuts middle classes bring the whole rotten system crashing down. Bonuses are real - shame the 'profits' are totally illusory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Spart Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I started working for a well known European Investment Bank in Singapore in late November, on a fixed term contract - so I am not actually a member of staff. Previously I used to work in the actuarial profession in the UK. I've been here nearly three months and later today I will be disclosing some nuggets to give non-investment bank HPCers a little inside knowledge as to how things work. Can't write now, too busy, but its enough to say that many of the problems I've noticed don't stem from greed, they stem from other issues and I'll shed some light on what I've learnt later today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon_E_Mouse Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I had enough of the debt-is-wealth public, government, banksters & public sector fat cats and made the decision to close my UK Ltd. company down and work abroad to atleast 2012 and will keep all earnings out of the UK. So that is approx. 140k in VAT, Corporation Tax, income tax/year I will not be contributing and as I took a minimum salary for past 4 years so have a large lump sum after Entrepreneour Relief is taken. Now looking to move any savings out of the UK as well. As a prudent saver, I am now quite happy to watch from the sidelines while the correction takes place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveat Mortgagor Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Bonuses are real - shame the 'profits' are totally illusory. Thought this was worth another airing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spaniard Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 When will a critical mass of the population understand the fundamental rent-a-currency scam that they are forced to support whenever they do business? The sheer scale and audacity of this institutionalised rip-off are astounding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realistbear Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 When will the UK people wake up, get up from their knees and refuse to be raped by investment bankers??? Who needs those parasites anyway? The people are awake, they just need organising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I want a house! Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Now looking to move any savings out of the UK as well. Me too... You have a plan yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyoto Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Question to all of the people in this thread and others who have ever made any negative comment about these nebulous "bankers".... Since the financial crisis, have you lost your job or had your pay cut? Has your personal living standard gone down since the financial crisis of 2008? Genuine question as I don't see where all of the vitriol is coming from... I suspect there is more than a touch of green eyed monster in some of this banker bashing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Question to all of the people in this thread and others who have ever made any negative comment about these nebulous "bankers".... Since the financial crisis, have you lost your job or had your pay cut? Has your personal living standard gone down since the financial crisis of 2008? Genuine question as I don't see where all of the vitriol is coming from... I suspect there is more than a touch of green eyed monster in some of this banker bashing. Not lost the job (yet), but my pay has been cut in real terms, and the standard of living has reduced - money doesn't go as far (particularly when travelling is involved), and the general worry about what the hell will happen has had an even bigger negative effect than any material drops. And not being able to get a sensibly-priced house means that my standard of living isn't where it could be anyway. You seem to be trying to defend the indefensible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyoto Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Not lost the job (yet), but my pay has been cut in real terms, and the standard of living has reduced - money doesn't go as far (particularly when travelling is involved), and the general worry about what the hell will happen has had an even bigger negative effect than any material drops. And not being able to get a sensibly-priced house means that my standard of living isn't where it could be anyway. You seem to be trying to defend the indefensible. I just think that the anger about bankers salaries is misplaced somewhat. There's lots of reasons that contributed more to our current mess than high salaries in the city. e.g. credit bubble, lax regulation, bloated public sector, unbalanced economy, public sector debt, government bail outs, trade deficitis, benefit dependency, property bubble. People are complaining about the bonuses, but don't seem in any way angry about the system which has contributed to the current mess and still continues to exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Spart Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 (edited) As promised, here are some of my experiences working at an investment bank in Singapore. I come from an acturial background and have an MBA, but for the last few years have tried to develop my IT skills as these travel far better. At the bank where I now work, near Raffles Place, I develop tactical tools (Excel spreadsheets and Access databases to you, guv). Some tools are used by Front Office traders other tools by Middle Office directors. Numerous issues struck me the day I started: The previous incumbent in the job had only been in the job four months the day he left. When I asked why he left after such a short time the response was "he has a young family and wanted the stability his new employer could offer." OK, I thought, but it turned out the guy before him was in the job six months and didn't renew his contract and the two guys before him "crashed and burned". It was noticeable within a few weeks that the bank had been saving up projects which they gave to me all in the space of a few weeks. I am currently juggiling seven IT projects all at the same time each from different internal clients, none of whom talk to each other, all of whom want their projects completed like yesterday. As a consequence the guy who acts as my manager changes my priorities daily. Drop whatever you're currently working on and pick up that one. The next day, its a whole new set of priorities and as a result I am not completing projects. My head spins. Just when I get to the point I can start developing one project I am told to drop it in favour of another. Directors have clear ideas over what tools they want developed but have no idea what it takes to make those tools. Excel and Access are fine tools but have their limitations, some times there is legitimate need to use say Visual Studio. Despite my role being described as RAD IT (Rapid Application Development) I have use of no more tools to work with than any other member of staff. I have been informed that a Visual Studio licence, which would make all the difference in the world to my work, costs about £200, but I can't have it as the bank is in cost lockdown mode. If I had Visual Studio to work with, the tools I could develop would not just be tactical but strategic. (To me tactical implies immediate short term, strategic being medium to long term). So, because the bank wants to save £200 all I can develop are crappy tactical tools. A stitch in time saves nine. In coming in to the role, I have been asked to pick up and add functionality to tools written by previous developers. First thing I did was to ask where the documentation for those tools was. Lo and behold there is none. It seems that previous developers, like me now, have been so overwhelmed by demands on their time that documenation of the programs they write is non-existent. The same goes for testing. During my actuarial career, any programs I ever developed were tested over and over again at every stage. Packs of test cases were thoughtfully developed, test harnesses created and expected versus actual results compared. No program ever got signed off until its integrity - its fitness for purpose - was proven. The last actuarial company I worked for has liabilities (with matching assets) of about $100 billion so you'll understand testing a program's integrity is essential. In actuarial world, producing an test audit-trail goes without saying, the same can't be said for the bank I work for. I can't find any proof that any previously written tools have been tested against expected results. One tool I have been asked to look at recently is used daily by Front Office; its used by the traders daily to trade in the tens of millions. Where's the proof its been tested? One other thing I have noticed is that when I get asked to produce a tool the request is often little more than verbal. Clients send me what they term BRDs (Business Requirement Documents). I've been working in IT related roles for 20 years and know full well what a proper BRD looks like but these guys send me a one sentence email with an image in it and have the cheek to call that a BRD. There is no formalistion at all. I have worked in RAD roles before but never have I seen such disregard for professional standards, with work being rushed through at breakneck speed, undocumented, untested and written using inappropriate tools. No-one here has even heard of Microsoft Visio. I have written a couple of diplomatically written emails to the my line manager offering my thoughts but these have fallen on deaf ears. Yesterday and today he attended no less than 15 meetings. If the rest of the bank is run like this a second credit crunch is almost certainly inevitable sooner rather than later. The bank I work for is trying to get blood from stones. In its attempts to recover from the global financial crisis this bank may actually be creating another. Edited February 15, 2011 by Dave Spart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 At least this sort of wage inflation isn't the dangerous sort which Mystic Merv has to clamp down on. That's only prole wage inflation. Everything else is fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 As promised, here are some of my experiences working at an investment bank in Singapore. I come from an acturial background and have an MBA, but for the last few years have tried to develop my IT skills as these travel far better. At the bank where I now work, near Raffles Place, I develop tactical tools (Excel spreadsheets and Access databases to you, guv). Some tools are used by Front Office traders other tools by Middle Office directors. Numerous issues struck me the day I started: The previous incumbent in the job had only been in the job four months the day he left. When I asked why he left after such a short time the response was "he has a young family and wanted the stability his new employer could offer." OK, I thought, but it turned out the guy before him was in the job six months and didn't renew his contract and the two guys before him "crashed and burned". It was noticeable within a few weeks that the bank had been saving up projects which they gave to me all in the space of a few weeks. I am currently juggiling seven IT projects all at the same time each from different internal clients, none of whom talk to each other, all of whom want their projects completed like yesterday. As a consequence the guy who acts as my manager changes my priorities daily. Drop whatever you're currently working on and pick up that one. The next day, its a whole new set of priorities and as a result I am not completing projects. My head spins. Just when I get to the point I can start developing one project I am told to drop it in favour of another. Directors have clear ideas over what tools they want developed but have no idea what it takes to make those tools. Excel and Access are fine tools but have their limitations, some times there is legitimate need to use say Visual Studio. Despite my role being described as RAD IT (Rapid Application Development) I have use of no more tools to work with than any other member of staff. I have been informed that a Visual Studio licence, which would make all the difference in the world to my work, costs about £200, but I can't have it as the bank is in cost lockdown mode. If I had Visual Studio to work with, the tools I could develop would not just be tactical but strategic. (To me tactical implies immediate short term, strategic being medium to long term). So, because the bank wants to save £200 all I can develop are crappy tactical tools. A stitch in time saves nine. In coming in to the role, I have been asked to pick up and add functionality to tools written by previous developers. First thing I did was to ask where the documentation for those tools was. Lo and behold there is none. It seems that previous developers, like me now, have been so overwhelmed by demands on their time that documenation of the programs they write is non-existent. The same goes for testing. During my actuarial career, any programs I ever developed were tested over and over again at every stage. Packs of test cases were thoughtfully developed, test harnesses created and expected versus actual results compared. No program ever got signed off until its integrity - its fitness for purpose - was proven. The last actuarial company I worked for has liabilities (with matching assets) of about $100 billion so you'll understand testing a program's integrity is essential. In actuarial world, producing an test audit-trail goes without saying, the same can't be said for the bank I work for. I can't find any proof that any previously written tools have been tested against expected results. One tool I have been asked to look at recently is used daily by Front Office; its used by the traders daily to trade in the tens of millions. Where's the proof its been tested? One other thing I have noticed is that when I get asked to produce a tool the request is often little more than verbal. Clients send me what they term BRDs (Business Requirement Documents). I've been working in IT related roles for 20 years and know full well what a proper BRD looks like but these guys send me a one sentence email with an image in it and have the cheek to call that a BRD. There is no formalistion at all. I have worked in RAD roles before but never have I seen such disregard for professional standards, with work being rushed through at breakneck speed, undocumented, untested and written using inappropriate tools. No-one here has even heard of Microsoft Visio. I have written a couple of diplomatically written emails to the my line manager offering my thoughts but these have fallen on deaf ears. Yesterday and today he attended no less than 15 meetings. If the rest of the bank is run like this a second credit crunch is almost certainly inevitable sooner rather than later. The bank I work for is trying to get blood from stones. In its attempts to recover from the global financial crisis this bank may actually be creating another. Interesting, it would appear that from your banks perspective it's just bumbling along with no clear idea as to what it's doing creating the perfect environment where everyone can pass the buck. Sounds like a car crash waiting to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtomsilver Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I know first hand how these investment banks operate. Fraud and error is a huge problem in all the banks I used to work in (well known ones I might add), if I had a dishonest bone in my body I could have walked away with £2million in client money at ML in the form of income derived from Polish Depository Receipts and not one person would be any the wiser. If and when fraud does occur it is brushed under the carpet as any bad publicty would be a PR disaster and they'd stand to lose management of client money an order of magnitude higher than the fraud. Don't get me started on error!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Spart Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Interesting, it would appear that from your banks perspective it's just bumbling along with no clear idea as to what it's doing creating the perfect environment where everyone can pass the buck. I think they know what they want to achieve, they just aren't aware of how to achieve it. Sounds like a car crash waiting to happen. Seems that way to me too. If, when you got to the departure lounge, you discovered the plane you were about to board was made the same way, would you board it? Lets put it another way, using a pharmacological analogy, just suppose the entire global stock of headache pills suddenly became toxic and destroyed millions of innocent lives. That is precisely what the actually banks did, yet its carry on regardless. :angry: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shermanator Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I know first hand how these investment banks operate. Fraud and error is a huge problem in all the banks I used to work in (well known ones I might add), if I had a dishonest bone in my body I could have walked away with £2million in client money at ML in the form of income derived from Polish Depository Receipts and not one person would be any the wiser. If and when fraud does occur it is brushed under the carpet as any bad publicty would be a PR disaster and they'd stand to lose management of client money an order of magnitude higher than the fraud. Don't get me started on error!! All a very interesting insight into casino 'banking'. All this wouldn't matter a jot if the government had the chutzpah (St. Vince excluded) to break up the banks into retail and trading - like the situation before 1996 I think. The trading side would be permitted to go bust thus resisting the need for loser bail-outs. One has to wonder why the banksters are resistant to this wholly sensible change. Could it be that they like gambling with other people's money and when it all goes horribly wrong blackmail the sheeple again? :angry: P.S. Guess who's bankrolling Dave & co Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sillybear2 Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 As promised, here are some of my experiences working at an investment bank in Singapore. An 'investment bank' that cannot afford a £200 software licence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Spart Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 An 'investment bank' that cannot afford a £200 software licence? Ludicrous, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Ludicrous, isn't it? Sounds it. You should move to a Retail Bank I think. Far cruisier and although the money will probably be a bit less - wont be a huge difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtomsilver Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Ludicrous, isn't it? Buy it yourself you tight git if it makes your job any easier and recoup costs through your timesheet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I have been informed that a Visual Studio licence, which would make all the difference in the world to my work, costs about £200, but I can't have it as the bank is in cost lockdown mode. If I had Visual Studio to work with, the tools I could develop would not just be tactical but strategic. (To me tactical implies immediate short term, strategic being medium to long term). So, because the bank wants to save £200 all I can develop are crappy tactical tools. A stitch in time saves nine. Now I know you shouldn't have to do this, however why don't you just offer to pay for it yourself ? If just £200 is gonna make your life so much easier - surely just paying for it would be worth your while ? Not a normal/right thing to do but if things are that bad then why not ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeTrader Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Genuine question as I don't see where all of the vitriol is coming from... I suspect there is more than a touch of green eyed monster in some of this banker bashing. Banker bashing? George told us that was all over now and it was time to move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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