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Interview On R4 - Air Force Cuts

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Interview on PM today with Gerald Howarth about financial cuts to training of new pilots.

This made me smile. Lots of common sense and some gems about his opinion of Brown and Labour causing the mess we are in. I particularly liked the statement about Brown's incontinence. Typical BBC response.

Listen from about 10:50.

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Interview on PM today with Gerald Howarth about financial cuts to training of new pilots.

This made me smile. Lots of common sense and some gems about his opinion of Brown and Labour causing the mess we are in. I particularly liked the statement about Brown's incontinence. Typical BBC response.

Listen from about 10:50.

well said that man.

... no point in training pilots if there are no planes.

... liked the incontinence comment - BBC quickly moved on rather than trying to get figures and the words "cuts" out.

He stuck it to you. Gordon brown the one-eyed jock **** pi$$ed all the money up the wall.

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I like the report on the Oz climate. An Aussie scientist who says that CO2 pales into insignificance for Oz when you get 20 years droughts and then 200 mph cyclones and then massive floods due to the Sun and weather systems.

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Interview on PM today with Gerald Howarth about financial cuts to training of new pilots.

This made me smile. Lots of common sense and some gems about his opinion of Brown and Labour causing the mess we are in. I particularly liked the statement about Brown's incontinence. Typical BBC response.

Listen from about 10:50.

Thank you for the broadcast from Tory HQ today.

Might be nice to find a smidgeon of sympathy for the 100 youngsters whose dreams of flying have been shot down in flames after years of hard work

These savings could just as easily been achieved by slashing the top heavy management chain in the various branches of the armed forces (what exactly is the current ratio of generals to troops on the ground) but that would have involved higher upfront redundancy costs. Far better to boot out the trainees who wont qualify for a penny. Of course, it wont look so smart in 10 years time when the armed forces find that they are short of trained personnel. But then the decision here is not about defence of the realm but about making short term political gains and leaving the costs to fall on a later government. In fact a policy not that different from the one adopted by Messr Blair and Brown..

Edited by stormymonday_2011

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.

Might be nice to find a smidgeon of sympathy for the 100 youngsters whose dreams of flying have been shot down in flames after years of hard work

What makes you think there are plans for them to fly once they've finished?. A bit like those who go to university & expect a top job after leaving.

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Guest The Relaxation Suite

What makes you think there are plans for them to fly once they've finished?. A bit like those who go to university & expect a top job after leaving.

These people have a highly sought-after skill. Just because the RAF and Britain doesn't want them doesn't mean no one else does. These people will simply go overseas and fly in foreign countries. Booming nations, BRIC, smaller growing economies like Aus and NZ and Canada. All kinds of places will employ these people as RAF is highly respected. The only loser is Britain.

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The future is drones. Feel sorry for them but then most people would big them up for their bravery because of the danger etc. There is no danger with drones and are highly effective.

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The future is drones. Feel sorry for them but then most people would big them up for their bravery because of the danger etc. There is no danger with drones and are highly effective.

Drones are hardly going to be airlifting troops to and from the battelfield or evacuating casualties anytime soon.

Edited by stormymonday_2011

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What makes you think there are plans for them to fly once they've finished?. A bit like those who go to university & expect a top job after leaving.

University student usually get their degree even if they never get the expected job.

These trainees are being denied tven that opportunity.

Some are being thrown out on their ars* when they only need 5-6 more hours flying to get their wings.

There is no excuse for such callous treatment when the cost of allowing them to complete the training would be tiny compared to the sums already committed.

Thirty of these people were training as helicopter pilots the provison of which I seem to remember Cameron was going to make a priority for the troops in Afghanistan

The taxpayer has paid a fortune to train these individuals and that money is now essentially being thrown away

There are plenty of older personnel in the RAF, many in desk jobs that could probably be removed with less impact on the long term future of the forces (remind me how many air marshals the RAF currently has in post).

The message the RAF to new recruits is clear join the Belgian air force

Edited by stormymonday_2011

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The taxpayer has paid a fortune to train these individuals and that money is now essentially being thrown away

Look up 'sunk costs fallacy' sometime.

As far as I can see Camoron is intending to eliminate the British armed forces completely and let the EU military take over; so why spend money if you can get the French taxpayer to spend it instead?

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University student usually get their degree even if they never get the expected job.

These trainees are being denied tven that opportunity.

Some are being thrown out on their ars* when they only need 5-6 more hours flying to get their wings.

There is no excuse for such callous treatment when the cost of allowing them to complete the training would be tiny compared to the sums already committed.

Thirty of these people were training as helicopter pilots the provison of which I seem to remember Cameron was going to make a priority for the troops in Afghanistan

The taxpayer has paid a fortune to train these individuals and that money is now essentially being thrown away

There are plenty of older personnel in the RAF, many in desk jobs that could probably be removed with less impact on the long term future of the forces (remind me how many air marshals the RAF currently has in post).

The message the RAF to new recruits is clear join the Belgian air force

There is no evidence that those with only 5-6 flying hours needed to get their wings will be thrown out. If you have this evidence please provide a link.

It will costs £3,000,000.00 to fully train each pilot that we don't need.

How many nurses and other people that we need can be trained for £3,000,000.00?

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Drones are hardly going to be airlifting troops to and from the battelfield or evacuating casualties anytime soon.

Then maybe we can hope for no more gung-ho expensive military invasions which have no direct bearing to our national interests [admitted by Blair about Iraq]. And withdrawal from Afghanistan and Iraq. We should only require the military power to protect our own borders and enough to bloody the nose of johnny foreigner if we have to, in NATO. And explore other less expensive mechanisms of attack and defence, instead of full scale military operations for Labour do-gooding.

£3m? They need to look at ways to reduce the costs of training. It's less in the USA and their auditors also are looking at ways to cut the costs back further.

Auditors estimate the Air Force would save at least $500,000 per pilot if it revamped its training programs. Today, a manned aircraft pilot completes undergraduate and graduate pilot training programs. The service spends more than $2.6 million to train a fighter pilot. Training for an airlift pilot, relatively speaking, is far less — about $600,000.The audit recommends “eliminating 20 unnecessary weeks of the current undergraduate pilot training program, deleting unnecessary graduate training on other aircraft,” and adding an eight-week UAV undergraduate course and 12 weeks of UAV graduate training. The cost, the report estimates, would be a little more than $135,000 per pilot.

AirForceTimes March 1, 2009

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I think Blair's dalliance with 'regime change' and the desire to 'do good' by getting rid of distasteful regimes wherever they may be, will probably have led to the bulk of the UK populace supporting drastic cuts to the Armed Forces to avoid such temptation again.

I don't hear much outrage and protest thus far against cuts to the Armed Forces whereas once there would have been.

Yup, somebody coined the phrase "Oxfam Army" and that summed it up for me. The role of the armed forces is to wage war. If we're fighting rag-clad peasants like the Taliban just send in drone missiles anytime they try to get above their stone age level of existence, you don't need a massive army to do that. Feck knows why we've been in Afghanistan the last five years. We beat them in a month and should have left them to it, with the threat that any more trouble and they just get the same again.

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There is no evidence that those with only 5-6 flying hours needed to get their wings will be thrown out. If you have this evidence please provide a link.

It will costs £3,000,000.00 to fully train each pilot that we don't need.

How many nurses and other people that we need can be trained for £3,000,000.00?

Agree with this. I am pretty amazed they have the guts to cut something like this. My initial reaction was one of horror, unfortunately this is only the beginning.

The deficit alone is equal to training 50,000 pilots! Then we have the £1 Trillion + PFI to deal debt to deal with.

We could train 13,000 pilots with the debt interest we are paying already and it will double even with the so called "cuts".

Utter madness.

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These people have a highly sought-after skill. Just because the RAF and Britain doesn't want them doesn't mean no one else does. These people will simply go overseas and fly in foreign countries. Booming nations, BRIC, smaller growing economies like Aus and NZ and Canada. All kinds of places will employ these people as RAF is highly respected. The only loser is Britain.

Ah, yes, New Zealand will be snapping up those homeless fight pilots. Remind me again what fighters the New Zealand Airforce flies? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

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Although the RAF will always need some pilots, it makes sense in humanitarian and economic terms to make a switch to pilotless remote-controlled combat aircraft or smart missiles. Obviously it would be beneficial for the people who would 'fly' pilotless planes from a ground station to have experience flying real fighter planes too, but that would only need a shorter and cheaper course than a fully trained combat pilot.

One kind of sophisticated technology we might need in the future is for a system where, during an airliner hijack, the pilot can press a button or two that hands over control of the plane to a specially trained remote pilot being carried as crew in an escorting RAF jet. Even if that carries risks, it might well be a lot safer than a 9/11 style alternative.

Edited by Hyperduck Quack Quack

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Bring the cuts on - Watched a show last night following HMS Manchester patrolling the Carribean - was a real eye opener...

It spent more time in dock for repairs than on patrol...

All the engineers with the real knowledge to get the ship going were in thier 50's....

Lots of the young crew were fat or outright obese..

I have now got ZERO confidence in her Maj's navy.....

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Obviously it would be beneficial for the people who would 'fly' pilotless planes from a ground station to have experience flying real fighter planes too, but that would only need a shorter and cheaper course than a fully trained combat pilot.

Obvious, but apparently not true. From what I've read, the Americans have found that experienced pilots are far worse at 'flying' UAVs because they wanted to 'fly' them rather than let the computer do the hard parts.

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The opinions of civilians on military matters are always good for a laugh.

They always think the next war will be just like the last or current one. They're always wrong.

Are you sure you're not confusing civilians with military leaders? Because the latter are notorious for claiming that the next war will be just like the last one, and ridiculing civilians who try to tell them that it will be different.

If I remember correctly, the British military leaders between the wars ridiculed Liddell Hart, for example, while the Germans read his books and adopted many of his suggestions for their Blitzkrieg.

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Bring the cuts on - Watched a show last night following HMS Manchester patrolling the Carribean - was a real eye opener...

It spent more time in dock for repairs than on patrol...

All the engineers with the real knowledge to get the ship going were in thier 50's....

Lots of the young crew were fat or outright obese..

I have now got ZERO confidence in her Maj's navy.....

I think they've just had great PR over the years. My idea of the Navy was from films like Cockleshell Heros and Battle of the River Plate. My wake-up call was seeing the absolute shower that comprised the crew of the Navy boat that the Iranians nabbed, and this was reinforced by a Destroyer standing by and watching as that old yacht couple get hijacked off Somalia. None of it is worth paying anything other than the bare minimum for, so I quite like the recent outsourcing to France.

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Are you sure you're not confusing civilians with military leaders? Because the latter are notorious for claiming that the next war will be just like the last one, and ridiculing civilians who try to tell them that it will be different.

If I remember correctly, the British military leaders between the wars ridiculed Liddell Hart, for example, while the Germans read his books and adopted many of his suggestions for their Blitzkrieg.

Yep, still parading their horses and expecting cavalry charges to come back into vogue.

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  • 312 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
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