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Ken Clarke: " Middle England Just Don’T Realise The Calamitous Position We’Re In.”

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In an interview with The Daily Telegraph, he says: “One reason we’re going to get some political difficulty is that [while] the public knows we’ve got to do something about it, I don’t think Middle England has quite taken on board the scale of the problem.

“That will emerge as the cuts start coming home this year. We’ve got to get on with it [but] it’s going to be very difficult. If someone says it’s not as bad as all that, I say [they] just don’t realise the calamitous position we’re in.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/8319993/Kenneth-Clarke-worst-of-cuts-has-yet-to-be-felt.html

I think most people still don't understand the difference between deficit and debt, and the size of them.

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I think most people still don't understand the difference between deficit and debt, and the size of them.

then that is excellent guidance as to the future path our democracies will follow, and what is real and what is not.

when you look about in a typical UK town do you see a crisis? I don't.

I don't see towns washed away by rising sea levels, nuclear wastelands or urban wastelands stalked by child soldiers with Ak-47's.

The crisis is entirely a phenomena of our own virtual/mental construction.

Quite sad really.

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Ken Clarke is right.

Middle England have no idea how massive this will be. Many "comfortable" people I know (kinda wish I didn't) had no idea the credit crunch was coming.

They think it's all being "talked up by the media" HA! Little do they realise its being 'talked down' by the media.

Edited by worst time buyer

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then that is excellent guidance as to the future path our democracies will follow, and what is real and what is not.

when you look about in a typical UK town do you see a crisis? I don't.

I don't see towns washed away by rising sea levels, nuclear wastelands or urban wastelands stalked by child soldiers with Ak-47's.

The crisis is entirely a phenomena of our own virtual/mental construction.

Quite sad really.

It's a bad reflection on how society lets some people pull the strings. After all, what have we really screwed up with? Roughly the same number of people, no problems triggered by food / labour / resource / natural disaster issues - there's no practical reason at all that we should be in a mess.

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I don't see towns washed away by rising sea levels, nuclear wastelands or urban wastelands stalked by child soldiers with Ak-47's.

Then you've not been to Oldham.

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/8319993/Kenneth-Clarke-worst-of-cuts-has-yet-to-be-felt.html

I think most people still don't understand the difference between deficit and debt, and the size of them.

Well he would say that because he has his own personal police force and doesnt use public services.....these tories dont have a clue about the real world. This government will be gone by the end of the summer.

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The reason why people don't believe/realize is because a) it hasn't really affected them yet and/or B) they see little attempt by the politicians/very rich to rein in their excesses/share the burden.

Given the amount of lies we are regularly fed and blatant hypocrisy I have to admit I occasionally wonder if some of the conspiracy theorists are right.

Edited by StainlessSteelCat

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The crisis is entirely a phenomena of our own virtual/mental construction

Scarcity is the root of it though- in a world of star trek replicators these problems would not arise. So while the weapons may be virtual, the consequences of losing can be very real.

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then that is excellent guidance as to the future path our democracies will follow, and what is real and what is not.

when you look about in a typical UK town do you see a crisis? I don't.

I don't see towns washed away by rising sea levels, nuclear wastelands or urban wastelands stalked by child soldiers with Ak-47's.

The crisis is entirely a phenomena of our own virtual/mental construction.

Quite sad really.

Yeah, pretty sad that you don't see the crisis.

Portsmouth: chavsville, huge dependency on benefits, navy spending, and black market. Inner city piled high with subsidised housing - council and BTL. High street full of baby buggies, poundshops, burger stands, bank branches, and crims shouting "****** you" to their bitches. Courts stuffed with mortgage debtors, credit card debtors, bankrupts.

I have to visit this shithole every week. Truly depressing, but that's where my business takes me. It's a good example of where the debt nonsense ends up, and yet not so deviant from the wider situation I see in the south.

A crisis is a pudding - it is proved in the eating. Nothing to do with mental constructions or schrodinger's cat mentalism.

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Well he would say that because he has his own personal police force and doesnt use public services.....these tories dont have a clue about the real world. This government will be gone by the end of the summer.

Lot's of heat but not much light in this one i'm afraid.

File under 'loony-left rant'. :wacko:

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It looks like he's making a bleak announcement on almost a weekly basis. A couple of weeks ago it was times are going to be very hard for getting on for 3 years or more (likely very optimistic) and this week it's how people will soon have to come to terms with the calamitous position we're in.

For sure he'll know a fair amount of the proposed austerity policy details and as an ex Chancellor he'll have a fairly clear idea of what they'll mean to the UK's economy.

Edited by billybong

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He's probably right. Benefit cuts to the poor will, by necessity, be limited. The rich, for reasons too numerous to mention, will escape largely unscathed. Where else can the cuts fall?

This would be okay IMHO except for the problem with the rich - and it's not just about 'fairness'. Some estimates about how much tax they avoid paying in this country puts the figure at around 25 billion...*

Add in the undue influence these people have, and things are not looking good...

* this figure includes tax avoidance by companies.

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then that is excellent guidance as to the future path our democracies will follow, and what is real and what is not.

when you look about in a typical UK town do you see a crisis? I don't.

I don't see towns washed away by rising sea levels, nuclear wastelands or urban wastelands stalked by child soldiers with Ak-47's.

The crisis is entirely a phenomena of our own virtual/mental construction.

Quite sad really.

I partially agree with you.

Yes it is not like we will have famine or real deprivation. People will still be able to feed, clothe and shelter themselves. I agree.

But a lot of the previous perceived "reality" was built on debt - both individually and nationally (as most in this site know). And this reality will change radically from now onwards, and keep changing for many years, both for individuals and for Britain. A lot people who thought they were "rich", or "comfortable", or "middle class" will face a different reality. And in some 10 years Britain may be out of the top 10 economies in the world.

I agree that all these are part of what you called "our own virtual/mental constructions", but you may be underestimating the importance of it for humans, and the psychological shocks ahead.

If only this crisis would teach people/the nation what really happened, about the decade long credit/HP bubble, that it was a typical bubble collective, national manic behaviour, that most of the country was guilty of it, from lenders to borrowers, from governments to oppositions, and most of the media, if only people would learn from it, I think it would be worthy, and psychologically healthy (again both individually and nationally). Alas, I am giving up hope that this learning/maturing will ever happen. Most people are still focusing on a few scapegoats (from bankers to China), and refusing to accept responsibility, individually or collectively.

.

Edited by Tired of Waiting

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that is a brilliant article and spot on and I say that being a life long Ken Clarke hater.

the comments are funny too, he is just being reasonably straight for once and they all slag him off

as we all know, there is a huge debt and despite massive cuts, it's just going to get bigger and bigger, how long before we do an egypt?

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Ken Clarke is right.

Middle England have no idea how massive this will be. Many "comfortable" people I know (kinda wish I didn't) had no idea the credit crunch was coming.

They think it's all being "talked up by the media" HA! Little do they realise its being 'talked down' by the media.

I think that is because our media does not explain the root of the problem - deficit, debt and all that.

It is actually very easy to explain to people what the deficit is. I have done that a few times, to acquaintances and relatives, and I have improved my "technique". Now it takes less than 20 seconds 1 or 2 minutes. This way:

Deficit just means shortfall. In this tax year (2010/11) the Government Revenues are around £550bn/ year, but they are spending £700bn. A shortfall of £150bn. They will borrow to cover this shortfall. (Have a pause here, see if they got it. You may have to repeat these 3 numbers.)
The coalition plan is to gradually reduce this shortfall, and balance the books by the end of this parliament, in 4 years.
We will keep borrowing more until then. Adding to the current national debt. It was at around £900bn when they took power in May, and it will probably be at around £1,300bn at the end of this parliament.

Some people are really very surprised to hear that we are still overspending, and that despite all the cuts, we will still be over-spending all the way until the end of this parliament.

At this point, some show clear signs that they are no-longer sure if they should believe me.

Note that they did understand very clearly what I said. It was not difficult to understand - it is not difficult to understand. But it is so new to them, and so... weird? hard? that they grow suspicious. Once I even said, look, check on Google. These are the 3 numbers (on a post-it) revenues 550bn, expenses 700bn, total debt 900bn. A couple of weeks later I saw him again, and yes he had checked, and now believes / understands. But he still had that same "shock" look he had when I first told him. He was really quiet. And still very surprised, and "pensive". - Yes, a lot to be pensive about! It will take time! For many people.

Sorry, I went on a tangent.

But my point is: Why the press don't explain this deficit/debt thing??!!

Even the Tories avoid this issue! And keep saying "paying down this deficit" - like muddling the issue on purpose! Why?!? It was labour's fault!

Edit: OK, it does take little more than 20 seconds, for the whole thing.

Edited by Tired of Waiting

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I work a bit for a BTL landlord who has 50 or so houses stuffed with unmarried mothers , I have been asking them as i go around has the cuts lowered your money any , I can honestly say not ONE has said their benefits have gone down in fact many said they have actually gone up , one even told me yesterday she found out that because she has a leg injury she is entitled to free taxis taking her kids to and from school.

Nothing has changed and I fear nothing will

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So he is openly admitting that the leeches at the top and the parasites at the bottom will be untouched, only the middle class will endure the pain of the cuts.

Bob nails it! The squeezed middle was always easy to define for those with a bit of backbone.

The squeezed middle - those being crushed between the corporate welfare claimants at one end and dole/credit claimants at the other.

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I think that is because our media does not explain the root of the problem - deficit, debt and all that.

It is actually very easy to explain to people what the deficit is. I have done that a few times, to acquaintances and relatives, and I have improved my "technique". Now it takes less than 20 seconds. This way:

Deficit just means shortfall. In this tax year (2010/11) the Government Revenues are around £550bn/ year, but they are spending £700bn. A shortfall of £150bn. They will borrow to cover this shortfall. (Have a pause here, see if they got it. You may have to repeat these 3 numbers.)
The coalition plan is to gradually reduce this shortfall, and balance the books by the end of this parliament, in 4 years.
We will keep borrowing more until then. Adding to the current national debt. It was at around £900bn when they took power in May, and it will probably be at around £1,300bn at the end of this parliament.

Some people are really very surprised to hear that we are still overspending, and that despite all the cuts, we will still be over-spending all the way until the end of this parliament.

At this point, some show clear signs that they are no-longer sure if they should believe me.

Note that they did understand very clearly what I said. It was not difficult to understand - it is not difficult to understand. But it is so new to them, and so... weird? hard? that they grow suspicious. Once I even said, look, check on Google. These are the 3 numbers (on a post-it) revenues 550bn, expenses 700bn, total debt 900bn. A couple of weeks later I saw him again, and yes he had checked, and now believes / understands. But he still had that same "shock" look he had when I first told him. He was really quiet. And still very surprised, and "pensive". - Yes, a lot to be pensive about! It will take time! For many people.

Sorry, I went on a tangent.

But my point is: Why the press don't explain this deficit/debt thing??!!

Even the Tories avoid this issue! And keep saying "paying down this deficit" - like muddling the issue on purpose! Why?!? It was labour's fault!

.

If you could refine a 20 second version of why we have a deficit, that would be great :lol:

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So he is openly admitting that the leeches at the top and the parasites at the bottom will be untouched, only the middle class will endure the pain of the cuts.

Yes we do have many leeches and parasites at the top and bottom, but many middle class people over-borrowed. Reckless lending required reckless borrowing. The middle classes are no just victims here, they were a major guilty part in the credit/debt/assets bubble.

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  • 312 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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