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Superb Site For De-Converting Christians

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Fascinating and very helpful resource site, if you know someone who has or have been involved in Christianity yourself and are escaping, escaped or helping someone to do so..

www.exchristian.net

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Fascinating and very helpful resource site, if you know someone who has or have been involved in Christianity yourself and are escaping, escaped or helping someone to do so..

www.exchristian.net

I hadn't known there were so many idiots in the world until I started using the Internet (Stanislaw Lem).

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Christians are good people in my experience, many doing a lot of charity work, helping the homeless, careers in difficult healthcare roles etc. I would much rather live in a society with them them without. Only a very small percentage are the door to door, street preaching type. Most of them are good natured who occassionaly might go to church but have their existence founded in god. It is wrong to persercute them like this.

Also, there was a video someone linked to a while back that was supposed to debunk Christianity, you know the one.. with its basis in astrology etc. Well I did quite a bit of background research into that video and really it is complete bunkem. There are some seriously knowledgable academics who have gone on record as totally disproving that video, it really is a farce! Just wanted to put that out there as it is not fair to ask someone to make a major belief choice on the basis of that movie.

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Christians are good people in my experience, many doing a lot of charity work, helping the homeless, careers in difficult healthcare roles etc. I would much rather live in a society with them them without. Only a very small percentage are the door to door, street preaching type. Most of them are good natured who occassionaly might go to church but have their existence founded in god. It is wrong to persercute them like this.

Also, there was a video someone linked to a while back that was supposed to debunk Christianity, you know the one.. with its basis in astrology etc. Well I did quite a bit of background research into that video and really it is complete bunkem. There are some seriously knowledgable academics who have gone on record as totally disproving that video, it really is a farce! Just wanted to put that out there as it is not fair to ask someone to make a major belief choice on the basis of that movie.

I do voluntary work for a christian charity, and I've found that's mostly true. They open & close meetings in prayer and such like, which I don't partake in (the bloke who runs it knows my stance on religion, and never preaches to me)...Religion isn't rammed down my throat..if it was, I'd walk away...

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I do voluntary work for a christian charity, and I've found that's mostly true. They open & close meetings in prayer and such like, which I don't partake in (the bloke who runs it knows my stance on religion, and never preaches to me)...Religion isn't rammed down my throat..if it was, I'd walk away...

Dave, I used to get out of the Christianity at school, by virtue of being Catholic!

I've never heard anything so bonkers! :huh:

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Well, occasionally if I walk past a bible group in the communal area, I just shut my trap...I would like to say something really offensive, and tell them what I really think about their bloody religion, but I daren't - I'd probably end up killing a few old biddies if I did. The charity does some brilliant work, so that's why I'm there. The bloke whom I mainly work with is a really decent chap, its just unfortunate that he's a god botherer..

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Well, occasionally if I walk past a bible group in the communal area, I just shut my trap...I would like to say something really offensive, and tell them what I really think about their bloody religion, but I daren't - I'd probably end up killing a few old biddies if I did. The charity does some brilliant work, so that's why I'm there. The bloke whom I mainly work with is a really decent chap, its just unfortunate that he's a god botherer..

You seem conflicted: good intentions v prejudice. You'll work it out.

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Christians are good people in my experience, many doing a lot of charity work, helping the homeless, careers in difficult healthcare roles etc. I would much rather live in a society with them them without. Only a very small percentage are the door to door, street preaching type. Most of them are good natured who occassionaly might go to church but have their existence founded in god. It is wrong to persercute them like this.

Christians do not have a monopoly on being good people; nor does Christianity have a clean sheet when it comes to doing evil in the name of God. Many Christians despise and persecute those of other religions, again in the name of God. Moreover, arguing against Christianity is not, in itself, persecution. Arguing against evils done in the name of religion is reasonable opinion and debate, not persecution.

We live in a secular society where people should be free to practice religion, debate religion, and argue against religion and what is done in the name of religion.

Also, there was a video someone linked to a while back that was supposed to debunk Christianity, you know the one.. with its basis in astrology etc. Well I did quite a bit of background research into that video and really it is complete bunkem. There are some seriously knowledgable academics who have gone on record as totally disproving that video, it really is a farce! Just wanted to put that out there as it is not fair to ask someone to make a major belief choice on the basis of that movie.

An Astrological debunking of Christianity would be bunkum in my book. Astrology is bunkum. However, that does not make Christianity true.

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You seem conflicted: good intentions v prejudice. You'll work it out.

Ppl can believe in what they want to believe..its up to them...I'm not going to stop them..and religion will still be alive & well until every human dies out...there's no escaping it....I help out because I see the good the charity does and I enjoy the work...Theoretically I'm a Christian because I was christened and I did 11 years of Christianity whilst at school. I personally don't believe in any organised religion - as for a "creator"..most likely not, but there's a slight niggle there..

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Christians are good people in my experience, many doing a lot of charity work, helping the homeless, careers in difficult healthcare roles etc. I would much rather live in a society with them them without. Only a very small percentage are the door to door, street preaching type. Most of them are good natured who occassionaly might go to church but have their existence founded in god. It is wrong to persercute them like this.

Along similar lines to happy_renting, I would say that non-Christians (and, indeed, rationalists) can be what people tend to think of as 'good' too.

Also, do the 'good' Christians that you refer to need Christianity to be good? Assuming they're genuinely good (and I take your word for it entirely), then presumably they would be able to do good things whether they were Christians or not. If one of them decided one day that they weren't all that sure about religion after all, would that have to mean reconsidering all their desires to do good things? Couldn't they simply carry on being great people without having to be Christian?

It has been argued that, in a sense, goodness without religion is more 'genuine' -- if a person who specifically does not believe they're being watched over by a supernatural being who (according to most religions it seems) would judge their actions, then it could be said that their good actions are more 'real'. With many incarnations of God, there is some justice built into the universe, and those who have done good in 'this life' can expect their rewards in the next. Without a belief in God, a good person has to do good things in the knowledge that they may never receive any reward, or even recognition, from the universe except perhaps for their own sense of satisfaction at having done good things.

Isn't 'just because you want to' a better reason for doing good than because you think you'll get some kind of reward/punishment in the end? And if Christians can also do good 'just because they want to', then the fact they're Christians is a red herring, and they could presumably carry on being good with or without Christianity.

Also, there was a video someone linked to a while back that was supposed to debunk Christianity, you know the one.. with its basis in astrology etc. Well I did quite a bit of background research into that video and really it is complete bunkem. There are some seriously knowledgable academics who have gone on record as totally disproving that video, it really is a farce! Just wanted to put that out there as it is not fair to ask someone to make a major belief choice on the basis of that movie.

This is a fallacious argument. Specifically, this fallacy is known as the 'Argument from Fallacy' or 'Argument to Logic'. This fallacy assumes that because you think there is an error in someone else's argument, that their assertion must be wrong as a consequence.

For example, if I say, grass is green because garden-pixies paint it that colour during the night, you may think my argument is rubbish, but that doesn't mean grass isn't green.

To return to the subject, if the view that many religions are based in some ways upon astrological and astronomical matters turns out to be an error, that doesn't mean that religions are true.

As a final point, on the issue of persecution, discrimination and phobias of and towards theists (of whatever flavour), I would say that some measure of negativity towards theists may be rationally and objectively warranted. For example, all else being equal, if there are two people running for a presidency, one theist and one rationalist, I would tend to favour the rationalist. I don't think this is an example of persecution or discrimination -- this judgement is based on the evidence that one of the candidates is clearly capable (and they openly admit it) of believing things without evidence. If someone has to run a country and make decisions that may affect world affairs, I'd rather it wasn't done by someone who demonstrates their ability to come to a firm conclusion without the need for reasons, and, furthermore, doesn't see that there's anything wrong with behaving this way.

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the trouble with "god" people, is many think if you dont beleive as they do, YOU are the one who is wrong.

then many beleive that punishment for being wrong is in THEIR hands.

most of the big religions beleive in one god.

tell me, if they all beleive in one god, then that god MUST be the SAME god....no? As Harry says, its the protocol thats different.

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the trouble with "god" people, is many think if you dont beleive as they do, YOU are the one who is wrong.

then many beleive that punishment for being wrong is in THEIR hands.

most of the big religions beleive in one god.

tell me, if they all beleive in one god, then that god MUST be the SAME god....no? As Harry says, its the protocol thats different.

I don't have a problem with religion just as long as they realise that their theories have the same status as fairy tales.

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Guest eight

Dave, I used to get out of the Christianity at school, by virtue of being Catholic!

Did you get anything else rammed down your throat though?

eight

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the trouble with "god" people, is many think if you dont beleive as they do, YOU are the one who is wrong.

then many beleive that punishment for being wrong is in THEIR hands.

most of the big religions beleive in one god.

tell me, if they all beleive in one god, then that god MUST be the SAME god....no? As Harry says, its the protocol thats different.

What I don't really agree with, is the teaching of religion from day zero of your life. Religion should be removed from the curriculum, and children should be allowed to find it if they so wish (although a number of parents will force their kids into it)...It seems as if religious types have the monopoly on morality, and if you don't believe in it, then you can't really be moral...

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I don't have a problem with religion just as long as they realise that their theories have the same status as fairy tales.

Seems to me that many "Churches" are a great method of controlling the masses....( pun unintended)...for example many until recently made Women 2nd class citizens...a great way to subdue 50% of the populace at a stroke...then there is the reward comes to those who behave tenet....IE...sorry you are starving, but ( and the bible says this)..know your place as the slave and work hard...the master must be fair to you, but your greater reward will come in heaven..

I heard on r4 some months ago, I think it was a Hindu lady, sitting on the lawn of the 5 star palace she lived in, watching the dirty poor begging at the gates...asked if she felt any guilt for her fortunate circumstance as compared to the masses, she said..no...in her religion, one is constantly reincarnated to a different life...and in this one, she was being rewarded...the next she would probably be the beggar at the gate.

A nice story for perpetuating the injustice and keep a moral straight face.

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Seems to me that many "Churches" are a great method of controlling the masses....( pun unintended)...for example many until recently made Women 2nd class citizens...a great way to subdue 50% of the populace at a stroke...then there is the reward comes to those who behave tenet....IE...sorry you are starving, but ( and the bible says this)..know your place as the slave and work hard...the master must be fair to you, but your greater reward will come in heaven..

I heard on r4 some months ago, I think it was a Hindu lady, sitting on the lawn of the 5 star palace she lived in, watching the dirty poor begging at the gates...asked if she felt any guilt for her fortunate circumstance as compared to the masses, she said..no...in her religion, one is constantly reincarnated to a different life...and in this one, she was being rewarded...the next she would probably be the beggar at the gate.

A nice story for perpetuating the injustice and keep a moral straight face.

Consumerism is even better at controlling the masses.

Therefore, during the 20th century women gained only one right really - the right to consume.

The whole equality story is rubbish. Banks and businesses simply needed more consumers. Therefore they pushed women to work. As a result most women have to combine raising children and running the house with 8 hours of 'professional career'. :lol: So much for equality.

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I heard on r4 some months ago, I think it was a Hindu lady, sitting on the lawn of the 5 star palace she lived in, watching the dirty poor begging at the gates...asked if she felt any guilt for her fortunate circumstance as compared to the masses, she said..no...in her religion, one is constantly reincarnated to a different life...and in this one, she was being rewarded...the next she would probably be the beggar at the gate.

A nice story for perpetuating the injustice and keep a moral straight face.

How strange.. if you thought it would be you next time around wouldn't you tithe away as much to the poor as possible..? :unsure:

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Also, do the 'good' Christians that you refer to need Christianity to be good? Assuming they're genuinely good (and I take your word for it entirely), then presumably they would be able to do good things whether they were Christians or not. If one of them decided one day that they weren't all that sure about religion after all, would that have to mean reconsidering all their desires to do good things? Couldn't they simply carry on being great people without having to be Christian?

From my own personal experience if I lapse in my faith, or go for prolonged periods without having a little read of the 'good book' say, I notice less savoury thoughts slowly creep back into my life, which have a tendency to snowball'. The most important command to us from JC himself is to 'love one another', so I guess a lot of the inherent 'goodness' in the religion stems from that. Currently I work in a caring profession. I genuinely (me personally) rely on my faith to get me through the job, I couldn't do it without so would not carry on the same, to answer your question.

It has been argued that, in a sense, goodness without religion is more 'genuine' -- if a person who specifically does not believe they're being watched over by a supernatural being who (according to most religions it seems) would judge their actions, then it could be said that their good actions are more 'real'. Without a belief in God, a good person has to do good things in the knowledge that they may never receive any reward, or even recognition, from the universe except perhaps for their own sense of satisfaction at having done good things.

Good for them, and that is really admirable but i'll admit straight up i'm a bad person. If I don't keep myself in check i'll start perusing 'adult' websites, having thoughts of revenge and acting on them, chasing material wealth, take what isn't mine etc. you get the gist. From reading the new testament, overtime I realised how none of those desires made me feel good or fulfilled me in anyway and have proven to myself time and time again this to be the case. I guess you can say it is good for your soul/spirit, even in a non-religious sense and regardless of any end of life 'reward'

Isn't 'just because you want to' a better reason for doing good than because you think you'll get some kind of reward/punishment in the end?

Yes, but if you believe in Christianity it isn't, because not one of us is good through and through, even the most angelic of atheists and Christians will dabble with a bit of the dark side from time to time, but Christians will be forgiven for their transgressions if the bible is to be believed. In any case, if you really think about it, there is a selfish motive behind every non-instinctive concious action a human being makes, good or bad, religious or not.

if there are two people running for a presidency, one theist and one rationalist, I would tend to favour the rationalist. I don't think this is an example of persecution or discrimination -- this judgement is based on the evidence that one of the candidates is clearly capable (and they openly admit it) of believing things without evidence. If someone has to run a country and make decisions that may affect world affairs, I'd rather it wasn't done by someone who demonstrates their ability to come to a firm conclusion without the need for reasons, and, furthermore, doesn't see that there's anything wrong with behaving this way.

Hey it is only natural to want the elected candidate to share the same beliefs as you. I would prefer the electee to share and act in accordance with my beliefs.

All good and reasoned arguments though Ologhai, I totally understand why you say as you do

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From my own personal experience if I lapse in my faith, or go for prolonged periods without having a little read of the 'good book'

Why on Earth is it called the good book If it's supposed to be a manual in how to live your life and is open to so many different interpreations?

There's hardly two christians who agree on the same defintions of bible stories.

No-one would call a safety manual, say, which got interpreted differently by nearly everyone who reads it is as a good book.

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From my own personal experience if I lapse in my faith, or go for prolonged periods without having a little read of the 'good book' say, I notice less savoury thoughts slowly creep back into my life, which have a tendency to snowball'.

Sorry, but you must be as weak as piss.

eight

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  • 312 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

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