Kurt Barlow Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 OMG you really are a moron. You think i didn't know that? It doesn't matter if the name "Israel" was previously given to the area or if some Jews once lived there. That does not give Jews from all over Europe the right to go and take land that isn't theirs. The Palestinians however were forced from their homes at gun point and still have a legal and moral right to their land. They can take you to the spot they lived. The same person on the same spot of land and show you the boundary. You try and get a European descendant Jew to take you to the spot of land their ancient ancestors lived and you'll see the farce of their claim to it. Perhaps in the interests of fairness Athom you could also campaign for the removal of the Turkish Muslim Horde from the Soveriegn state of Cyprus and perhaps pay compensation for their descretion of numerous Greek Orthodox Churches which had peacefully coexisted alongside Turkish Cypriot Mosques for a Century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHERWICK Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 OMG you really are a moron. You think i didn't know that? It doesn't matter if the name "Israel" was previously given to the area or if some Jews once lived there. That does not give Jews from all over Europe the right to go and take land that isn't theirs. The Palestinians however were forced from their homes at gun point and still have a legal and moral right to their land. They can take you to the spot they lived. The same person on the same spot of land and show you the boundary. You try and get a European descendant Jew to take you to the spot of land their ancient ancestors lived and you'll see the farce of their claim to it. Look, I care about as much for the jews' biblical claim for Israel as I do for mohammed's musings in the koran - in other words, not at all. However, they think they have a right that goes back long, long before muslims or palentinians were around and that their land was stolen from them. Also, the fact is that 'Israel' was indeed the name given to that area, (which does matter by the way), and that it wasn't just 'some jews' who lived there, but basically all of them. If you're going to worry about the palestinian's claim to 'palestine' (which only came into existance in 1920), then you can also worry about other countries whose borders were formed by armed struggle and/or given to them by others - in other words, you can worry about every single country in the world. Many, many people all over the world have been displaced, my own family included, but they don't go on and on about something that happened decades (or even centuries) ago. They don't want to go back to the spot they lived and show you the boundary - no, they instead get on with their lives. Yes, the jews did what all other nations have done at one time or another - took land that wasn't theirs. However, many jews themsleves have been displaced at gunpoint and their homes stolen - even by muslims (as Kurt pointed out). Are you going to fight for jews (and everyone else) to get their rightful property back too? If not, why not? Finally, there is no need to these 'palestinians' to live in camps when they are surrounded by supposedly helpful Arab nations right next door who can easily help them and house them in their vast and 'fertile' territories - so one has to ask, why are they still living in camps???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athom Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 If you're going to worry about the palestinian's claim to 'palestine' (which only came into existance in 1920) you miss the point of course, it's not about some people saying "i'm palestinian" and pointing to a name on a map and saying "that says palestine so it must be mine". In other words you can find a map where it doesn't say palestine and refute their claim. The point is they were legally and peacefully living there until the jews came with guns and forced them to leave and moved in. But you're ok with that? Finally, there is no need to these 'palestinians' to live in camps when they are surrounded by supposedly helpful Arab nations right next door who can easily help them and house them in their vast and 'fertile' territories - so one has to ask, why are they still living in camps???? they are displaced refugees waiting to go home, pretty simple. Put it this way, imagine you live all your life in the house you paid for on the land you paid for. Then one day, thousands of miles away, the Russians invade Poland and kill most of the poles (change to any nationality you wish), the rest find their way to your land and at gun point force you over the border into the barren welsh mountains where all you can do is heard some goats/sheep while gazing back over the fertile lowlands that were stolen from you. Now here's what you claim you would do - "Many, many people all over the world have been displaced, my own family included, but they don't go on and on about something that happened decades (or even centuries) ago. They don't want to go back to the spot they lived and show you the boundary - no, they instead get on with their lives." er, like the jews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHERWICK Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 you miss the point of course, it's not about some people saying "i'm palestinian" and pointing to a name on a map and saying "that says palestine so it must be mine". In other words you can find a map where it doesn't say palestine and refute their claim. The point is they were legally and peacefully living there until the jews came with guns and forced them to leave and moved in. But you're ok with that? they are displaced refugees waiting to go home, pretty simple. Put it this way, imagine you live all your life in the house you paid for on the land you paid for. Then one day, thousands of miles away, the Russians invade Poland and kill most of the poles (change to any nationality you wish), the rest find their way to your land and at gun point force you over the border into the barren welsh mountains where all you can do is heard some goats/sheep while gazing back over the fertile lowlands that were stolen from you. Now here's what you claim you would do - "Many, many people all over the world have been displaced, my own family included, but they don't go on and on about something that happened decades (or even centuries) ago. They don't want to go back to the spot they lived and show you the boundary - no, they instead get on with their lives." er, like the jews I believe that the only reason the jews wanted to go back was not because it was stolen from them but because, foolish as it seems, it was written in the bible that it's their 'promised land'. You of all people on this forum should understand this need in the jews to revere some text in a book - why they and you do this, I have no freaking idea, but you both do and that's that. As for your 'Russia invade Poland' example, that happened long after the jews took israel by force/it was given to them. As I said, there is no need AT ALL for any 'palestinians' to live in camps - their muslim friends could easily house them and look after them - I wonder why they don't (Hint: the continuing vision of refugees is a powerful one). So when are you going to take up the fight for the jews who've been forced at gunpoint from their rightful homes all over the world - qiute often by muslims???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHERWICK Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 you miss the point of course, it's not about some people saying "i'm palestinian" and pointing to a name on a map and saying "that says palestine so it must be mine". In other words you can find a map where it doesn't say palestine and refute their claim. The point is they were legally and peacefully living there until the jews came with guns and forced them to leave and moved in. But you're ok with that? I feel the same about that as I do about the blacks being forced from Africa to work as slaves, the Native Americans', Maoris', Aborigines' land being taken from them, i.e. time to move on as it's happened all over the world since the dawn of time - what happened to the 'palestinians' was nothing out of the ordinary or special at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athom Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I believe that the only reason the jews wanted to go back was not because it was stolen from them but because, foolish as it seems, it was written in the bible that it's their 'promised land'. and they needed to go in there with machine guns to take their gift from god? Seems somewhat unlikely. I know the only reason you're arguing their case, playing the devils advocate, is because you are bored and boring. I really must remember to ignore you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt Barlow Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 and they needed to go in there with machine guns to take their gift from god? Seems somewhat unlikely. I know the only reason you're arguing their case, playing the devils advocate, is because you are bored and boring. I really must remember to ignore you. What about Christian Armenians who were in their lands long before the 'Prophet' existed forced (by gunpoint) from their lands by Asiatic Turkic Muslims and often masacred. Wheres the justice? Turks out of Armenia NOW! Whilst we are at it - what about all those Zoroastrians (Parses) forced out of Iran by the 'religion of love and peace' to live in India (much to Indias benefit) Come on Athom - admit it - Mussies have committed just as many atrocities. Or I suspect in your mind its ok when the victims are non muslim and perpetrators are Muslims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athom Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 the jews took israel by force yes As I said, there is no need AT ALL for any 'palestinians' to live in camps - their muslim friends could easily house them and look after them - I wonder why they don't (Hint: the continuing vision of refugees is a powerful one) Who said anything different, they don't want to live anywhere but their own land, why would they. Not everyone has the wimp attitude of just giving it up as you advocate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athom Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 What about Christian Armenians who were in their lands long before the 'Prophet' existed forced (by gunpoint) from their lands by Asiatic Turkic Muslims and often masacred. Wheres the justice? Turks out of Armenia NOW! you still going on with this strawman crap? I bet you don't actually give a crap about anything, you just take the opposite view on what ever subject you're equally incapable of caring about because of some psychological issues. Get help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt Barlow Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 and they needed to go in there with machine guns to take their gift from god? Seems somewhat unlikely. I know the only reason you're arguing their case, playing the devils advocate, is because you are bored and boring. I really must remember to ignore you. In most circumstances it seems Muslims put events down to gods will - Insha Allah. It therefore stands to reason that it was Gods will that Israel wiped out Arab forces in various confrontations between Israel and neighbouring states since 1949. Cant you just accept it was gods will that the Jews returned to 'Zion' Ongoing resistance just results in further punishment from god. QED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athom Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 In most circumstances it seems Muslims put events down to gods will - Insha Allah. It therefore stands to reason that it was Gods will that Israel wiped out Arab forces in various confrontations between Israel and neighbouring states since 1949. Cant you just accept it was gods will that the Jews returned to 'Zion' Ongoing resistance just results in further punishment from god. QED yeah and it'll be gods will when the arabs take back control of palestine, so what's your point. Think you don't understand the concept of qadr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt Barlow Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 you still going on with this strawman crap? I bet you don't actually give a crap about anything, you just take the opposite view on what ever subject you're equally incapable of caring about because of some psychological issues. Get help What a load of pompous shyte. 99.9999% of Muslims don't give a flying fook about the Palastinians.. The whole issue is simply a useful distraction from the truth which is that the Arab World is equally responsible (with the US and Europeans for the creation of Israel) because the muslim population dont seem to be able to live along side anyone else so it has to create Ghettos - Jewish ghettos, Christian, Druse, Yazhdi etc etc. Israel is simply the Middle Easts Jewish Ghetto (which also accomodates other persecuted groups such as Druse and Christians). As I said the Palastinian issue is simply a useful distraction from the ongoing persecution of every other faith in the Muslim world whether it be; Christains in Egypt and Iraq Bahai's and Zoroastrians in Iran Kalash, Christians, Hindu's, Sikhs in Pakistan Druse in Lebanon and Syria Yazdhi's in Iraq and on and on and on....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athom Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Muslims don't give a flying fook about the Palastinians.. The whole issue is simply a useful distraction from the truth which is that the Arab World is equally responsible (with the US and Europeans for the creation of Israel) You have that number wrong, 99.99999% of the muslim people do care but the dictators the west put in place when they left the middle east are complicit in the continuation of the occupation. ....because the muslim population dont seem to be able to live along side anyone else Ouch! What a thing for a European to say. There were jews living side by side in palestine until the jews who survived the slaughter in Europe ran to palestine at the end of WW2, not because of some bogus historical right or they just love the place but because of their persecution at the hands of Christians and atheists. Because of that persecution in Europe they didn't feel safe without bricking themselves in, it wasn't because of muslims persecuting. Israel is simply the Middle Easts Jewish Ghetto (which also accomodates other persecuted groups such as Druse and Christians). it's a prison they built for themselves because they have been scarred by European persecution. The Arabs are completely innocent of it. To start your education on the sides in this seeing as you think the jews are friends of Christians in the middle east try this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Habash As I said the Palastinian issue is simply a useful distraction from the ongoing persecution of every other faith in the Muslim world whether it be; you're such an disingenuous rat, you say oh muslims persecute everyone but you choose to work in Saudi Arabia. Gosh something doesn't add up there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt Barlow Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 You have that number wrong, 99.99999% of the muslim people do care but the dictators the west put in place when they left the middle east are complicit in the continuation of the occupation. Ouch! What a thing for a European to say. There were jews living side by side in palestine until the jews who survived the slaughter in Europe ran to palestine at the end of WW2, not because of some bogus historical right or they just love the place but because of their persecution at the hands of Christians and atheists. Because of that persecution in Europe they didn't feel safe without bricking themselves in, it wasn't because of muslims persecuting. it's a prison they built for themselves because they have been scarred by European persecution. The Arabs are completely innocent of it. To start your education on the sides in this seeing as you think the jews are friends of Christians in the middle east try this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Habash you're such an disingenuous rat, you say oh muslims persecute everyone but you choose to work in Saudi Arabia. Gosh something doesn't add up there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt Barlow Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 You have that number wrong, 99.99999% of the muslim people do care but the dictators the west put in place when they left the middle east are complicit in the continuation of the occupation. Ouch! What a thing for a European to say. There were jews living side by side in palestine until the jews who survived the slaughter in Europe ran to palestine at the end of WW2, not because of some bogus historical right or they just love the place but because of their persecution at the hands of Christians and atheists. Because of that persecution in Europe they didn't feel safe without bricking themselves in, it wasn't because of muslims persecuting. it's a prison they built for themselves because they have been scarred by European persecution. The Arabs are completely innocent of it. To start your education on the sides in this seeing as you think the jews are friends of Christians in the middle east try this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Habash you're such an disingenuous rat, you say oh muslims persecute everyone but you choose to work in Saudi Arabia. Gosh something doesn't add up there I choose to work here because after 3 attempts by my companies recruiters I finally took their offer. I earn every penny paid to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt Barlow Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 yeah and it'll be gods will when the arabs take back control of palestine, so what's your point. Think you don't understand the concept of qadr. I suspect they will more likely be lubricant for the wheels of the IDF's Merkevas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athom Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I choose to work here because after 3 attempts by my companies recruiters I finally took their offer. I earn every penny paid to me. been persecuted by Muslims much today then? Come on you aren't going to admit making wildly inaccurate sweeping generalisations are you, so what happened? Get chased out of your village at gun point? House bulldozed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athom Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I suspect they will more likely be lubricant for the wheels of the IDF's Merkevas The Israelis are already quaking, if it keeps on like this at some point they'll open the gates, put on their best forced smiles and do their best to avoid any more bad blood. They're known for their ability to count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt Barlow Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 been persecuted by Muslims much today then? Come on you aren't going to admit making wildly inaccurate sweeping generalisations are you, so what happened? Get chased out of your village at gun point? House bulldozed? Er no. But then again if it were not for western expertise the various gulf states would not of managed to get a single barrel of oil out of the ground to this day. On that count me think persecuting expats might be somewhat counter productive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt Barlow Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 The Israelis are already quaking, if it keeps on like this at some point they'll open the gates, put on their best forced smiles and do their best to avoid any more bad blood. They're known for their ability to count. you really are a fantasist of the highest order. I imagine you routinely struggle to differentiate reality from your own dream world. Look if one could turn the clock back, I would agree the advent of the state of Israel would have been better if it hadn't happened full stop. However it has, and has been there for 60 years and is a very advanced state with the best military forces in the region and a couple of hundred nukes to boot. They ain't going anywhere and if the arab world attempt to push them into the Med the Arab World will end up a charred radioactive wasteland. QED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHERWICK Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 and they needed to go in there with machine guns to take their gift from god? Seems somewhat unlikely. Yes, quite unlikely I admit. But not as unlikely as a bunch of muslims blowing themsleves up in the hope of having 72 virgins in the afterlife So, are you going to fight for jews (and everyone else) to get their rightful property back too? If not, why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHERWICK Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 There were jews living side by side in palestine until the jews who survived the slaughter in Europe ran to palestine at the end of WW2, So, are you seriously saying that the jews and 'palestinians' were living side by side in happiness until 1945? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athom Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Look if one could turn the clock back, I would agree the advent of the state of Israel would have been better if it hadn't happened full stop. However it has, and has been there for 60 years and is a very advanced state with the best military forces in the region and a couple of hundred nukes to boot. They ain't going anywhere and if the arab world attempt to push them into the Med the Arab World will end up a charred radioactive wasteland. QED you seem to have a very narrow band of thought. with you it's either things as they are or muslims try to push the jews in to the sea? No other options occurring to you then? You're not much of a strategist are you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athom Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 But not as unlikely as a bunch of muslims blowing themsleves up in the hope of having 72 virgins in the afterlife come on then, prove where that 72 virgin thing is actually written in the quran or somewhere. Actually don't bother wasting your time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athom Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 So, are you seriously saying that the jews and 'palestinians' were living side by side in happiness until 1945? compared to the gas chambers of Europe i think most jews were living it up quite nicely in palestine don't you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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