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Shotoflight

Rates Payable On Empty Homes - Oct 2011

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Cookstown has seen some considerable drops, but then again prices rose pretty highly as well.

Do you know what situation is the vendor in? Are they under any pressure to sell? Probably not if its been on the market since 2007.

They will have to sell at some point, the longer the property sits vacant the greater the risk of vandalism, property falling into a state of disrepair etc.

What is your situation? Do you see this house as your home for life? Can you comfortably afford the monthly repayments even with an increase in interest rates? If so then go for it, I'd start at RV and explain this as your starting bid and tell them you can move quickly.

You have a number of options if they reject your offer, leave the offer on the table and leave it for a while to see if they come back to you or let them bid you up to your max of £250k.

It is a nice house, although you'd be kicking yourself if you pay £250k+ for it now and it drops even 10% by the end of the year!

Good luck with it whatever way you decide to go.

They will also start paying Rates in October if the property is still vacant, which may provide some further impetus in their quest to sell.

http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/lps_fact_sheet_reh_general_final_web.pdf

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They will also start paying Rates in October if the property is still vacant, which may provide some further impetus in their quest to sell.

http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/lps_fact_sheet_reh_general_final_web.pdf

Is this definitely going to happen this year? It kept getting delayed.

IMO this could be a complete game changer. I suspect there are lots of empty 'investment' properties in newish developments and the investors are waiting for the housing market to recover. I wonder how many investors will sit on those properties if it starts costing them money?

Edited by Belfast Boy

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Is this definitely going to happen this year? It kept getting delayed.

IMO this could be a complete game changer. I suspect there are lots of empty 'investment' properties in newish developments and the investors are waiting for the housing market to recover. I wonder how many investors will sit on those properties if it starts costing them money?

This looks like a very new document (1/2/11), I remember posting on the delays so this sounds like the line in the sand. Pity they are excluding developers though, but at least they are time limiting the exclusion to 18 months, which reduces to 12 months from April 2012.

Seems the lack of public money is starting to bite, and the 'powers' are not getting their own way.

Edited by Ride_on

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This looks like a very new document (1/2/11), I remember posting on the delays so this sounds like the line in the sand. Pity they are excluding developers though, but at least they are time limiting the exclusion to 18 months, which reduces to 12 months from April 2012.

Seems the lack of public money is starting to bite, and the 'powers' are not getting their own way.

You are right, this can has been kicked down the road at least once. To avoid any doubt, I rang LPS and it is definitely on (as of now, at least).

Wonder what the projected income stream is, and how energetic they will be in enforcing it (resources, vacancy inspectors etc.)?

http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/index/information-and-services/property-and-housing/rates/your-rate-bill/vacant-properties.htm

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I think this document - first posted by Shotoflight - is very significant and needs it's own thread for discussion...

http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/lps_fact_sheet_reh_general_final_web.pdf

RATES PAYABLE ON EMPTY HOMES

From 1st October 2011 the same level of rates will be due on all domestic

properties whether they are occupied or empty. This is intended to encourage

empty properties to be brought back into use.

Mods can you move all the discussion from this thread over please. http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=159202

Edited by Belfast Boy

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They will also start paying Rates in October if the property is still vacant, which may provide some further impetus in their quest to sell.

This will also effect the rental market. Creating accidental landlords as some people will try to let out their properties if they can't sell.

So both an increase in supply of properties for sale and for rent. And we all know what effect an increase in supply, does to prices ;)

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This will also effect the rental market. Creating accidental landlords as some people will try to let out their properties if they can't sell.

So both an increase in supply of properties for sale and for rent. And we all know what effect an increase in supply, does to prices ;)

Don't forget a landlord gets 12.5% discount on the rental properties rates from Oct 2011. At the moment it's 15%.

If they pay the rates in full on or before the 31st of September of each year, they get a further discount of 4%.

I think your over estimating the importance of this, considering only 30% of landlords claim the discount at the moment.

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Don't forget a landlord gets 12.5% discount on the rental properties rates from Oct 2011. At the moment it's 15%.

If they pay the rates in full on or before the 31st of September of each year, they get a further discount of 4%.

I think your over estimating the importance of this, considering only 30% of landlords claim the discount at the moment.

If I recall correctly, this discount is for landlords with multiple properties only (perhaps someone can check). Many of these 'accidental landlords' that I know, rent out just the one property - their mammy or daddy's ex council house, their first cheapy house, their house for the kids when they go to uni, the house she got when she split up with the hubby and then moved in with the new boyfriend or their wee pension bought with a claim years ago.

It's importance can be argued, however it is certainly another negative factor/cost and will no doubt be time consuming, darkening the mood music further and having a negative impact on sentiment. Timing will also be key with,no doubt, interest rate rises and public sector cuts locked in. The politicians realise it is a hot potato, in effect further taxation, hence the can kicking and low profile implementation to date. Talking the talk, it appears, is moving swiftly to walking the walk.

I believe the reduction in Housing Benefit rates mooted for GB (if they come here) have the potential to do greater damage to BTL yeilds - a double whammy! Again, perhaps someone in the business can clarify the local situation.

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If I recall correctly, this discount is for landlords with multiple properties only (perhaps someone can check). Many of these 'accidental landlords' that I know, rent out just the one property - their mammy or daddy's ex council house, their first cheapy house, their house for the kids when they go to uni, the house she got when she split up with the hubby and then moved in with the new boyfriend or their wee pension bought with a claim years ago.

It's importance can be argued, however it is certainly another negative factor/cost and will no doubt be time consuming, darkening the mood music further and having a negative impact on sentiment. Timing will also be key with,no doubt, interest rate rises and public sector cuts locked in. The politicians realise it is a hot potato, in effect further taxation, hence the can kicking and low profile implementation to date. Talking the talk, it appears, is moving swiftly to walking the walk.

I believe the reduction in Housing Benefit rates mooted for GB (if they come here) have the potential to do greater damage to BTL yeilds - a double whammy! Again, perhaps someone in the business can clarify the local situation.

The discount is not limited to multiple properties. In fact Housing Associations and the Housing Executive are limited to 10% discount. The rates for those properties is paid directly to the LPS, therefore no admin for those bodies.

I claimed the discount on one property 15% landlord discount and 4% for paying total balance before 31st September. A phone call to the landlord section of LPS and filling out a form confirming name, address, address of property and that was it.

Google it, the informations out there.

Edited by S S

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The discount is not limited to multiple properties. In fact Housing Associations and the Housing Executive are limited to 10% discount. The rates for those properties is paid directly to the LPS, therefore no admin for those bodies.

I claimed the discount on one property 15% landlord discount and 4% for paying total balance before 31st September. A phone call to the landlord section of LPS and filling out a form confirming name, address, address of property and that was it.

Google it, the informations out there.

SS, thanks for info (and advice). From what you say, claiming landlord's discount seems a simple enough procedure (not always the case with RCA/LPS), though from your figures, 70% prefer to forego this & pay more than they have to! Google didn't enlighten me on where you got this 70/30 split figure.

I also googled housing benefit cuts though and came up with this: http://www.insidehousing.co.uk/news/housing-management/northern-ireland-to-be-hit-by-benefit-cuts/6513020.article , about seven weeks old and little detail, hence why someone 'in the field', like yourself is often a useful source who can provide up to date fact and experience based opinion - if you are happy to do so.

Back on topic, it looks like (discount or no discount) the rating of empty properties and benefit cuts will cause difficulties for both tenants (benefit cuts) and landlords (voids).

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another leg down in property on top of all the legs down we have seen so far date

i have been on the sidelines for 5 years now and can see little reason to get involved before i get married at the end of the year

hold i there folks still plenty of downward movement to come especially in my "house prices will never crash in bt9" postcode.....

weebobby says getdooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooon

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Don't forget a landlord gets 12.5% discount on the rental properties rates from Oct 2011. At the moment it's 15%.

If they pay the rates in full on or before the 31st of September of each year, they get a further discount of 4%.

I think your over estimating the importance of this, considering only 30% of landlords claim the discount at the moment.

if only 30% are claiming their discount are the other 70% stupid for not claiming ?

or is it they that they cannot afford to pay the lump sum by end of september = skint?

rock on!

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Or are they landlords who haven't declared to HMRC so they can't claim?

... and their bank so they can have a cheaper residential mortgage rather than a commercial mortgage.

... and their insurance company so they don't have to pay landlord insurance ( so says Sarah Beeny in that ad ).

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... and their bank so they can have a cheaper residential mortgage rather than a commercial mortgage.

... and their insurance company so they don't have to pay landlord insurance ( so says Sarah Beeny in that ad ).

Im a renter (Ormeau Road). Got a letter thru the door saying "Rates Payable on Empty Houses from October 2011" - I take it from that the LL isnt paying his way......

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Im a renter (Ormeau Road). Got a letter thru the door saying "Rates Payable on Empty Houses from October 2011" - I take it from that the LL isnt paying his way......

A friend of mine got a similar letter. He is going to inform the property services people that the property is actually occupied and that the landlord needs to pony up :)

Remember, tax evasion is a crime and it's your civic duty to report it.

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Who is liable to pay rates; the owner, or the occupier?

If its empty the owner!

If its occupied depends on the contract, but there is a default ratepayer depending on the DCV. I think is <£150K its the LL, >£150K its the Tenant. The contract should state it, if not the defaults apply I think. The LL MUST tell you how much rates are being charged in the rent (in a separate legal requirement), and ensure any discounts are passed on, but this is mostly ignored and not policed.

Council tenants its normally included in the rent bill.

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A friend of mine got a similar letter. He is going to inform the property services people that the property is actually occupied and that the landlord needs to pony up :)

First, he needs to make sure he his not in a contract stating that it is the occupiers responsibility to pay the rates.

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A friend of mine got a similar letter. He is going to inform the property services people that the property is actually occupied and that the landlord needs to pony up :)

Remember, tax evasion is a crime and it's your civic duty to report it.

Yep our contract is for a furnished house and rent includes rates.....

Should i report this - as we are paying for rates thru our rent but the rates are obviously not being paid? (note - we have recently just gotten a rent reduction from our LL if this would make any difference)

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I was reading Serpico's posts that doccyboy linked to yesterday. They were posted in 2006, a year before I joined this forum. It's a pity he does not post anymore.

One of the things he said, which I thought relevant to this thread, was that of 30 recent house sales in his area in 2006, only 1 was bought by an owner occupier. The others were bought as second homes or as BTL investments. Apparently most were sitting empty.

So I am now wondering how many second home owners (as well as landlords) have properties they are not paying rates on? Are they all honest law abiding citizens? Or will some have declared the propert empty for rateable purposes, if they are only using the place a few weeks a year?

Edited by Belfast Boy

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Yep our contract is for a furnished house and rent includes rates.....

Should i report this - as we are paying for rates thru our rent but the rates are obviously not being paid? (note - we have recently just gotten a rent reduction from our LL if this would make any difference)

Yes, of course you should report it.

Honest, decent people are paying more in their rates because your landlord is evading his.

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I wonder is this '1/5 empty homes in the Holylands' report based on rates empty home rates exclusions, perhaps a warning shot across the bows... 'we're onto you'. Funny how the LL Association thinks its not based on any real evidence.

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  • 312 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

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