Xurbia Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Could someone please explain the anti-women bias on HPC to me? (I am a woman, so you might have to use short, easily comprehensible words). I'm not just talking about the obviously nasty comments like the one above, but also the whole anti-Mums Net thing? Or is that more an anti-bourgeois than anti-women thing? If the main aim of the majority of HPCers is to own a nice home with garden in the country/suburbs/smarter part of town, isn't being anti-bourgeois a little ironic? We're not exactly anarchists. For what it's worth, I'm female and earn around £40k, have a pension and savings. I've always worked. I don't own any designer clothes or bags. I have two sisters who both earn more than me and two brothers who earn less. I could tell you of horror stories about men whom my friends have dated just like you can tell me horror stories of women... but I don't tend to extrapolate that out to a judgement of half the population. So doesn't this old-fashioned idea of the gold digger or 'feckless vain bint' seem tired? Both genders can be feckless, both can be vain, both can be dumb. Basically, why do the HPC forums sometimes have to be such an unfriendly place for women to spend time in? I guess I'm about to get told to "find a sense of humour", but I thought it should be said. Here's my earlier post, just for your delectation: I'm struggling to understand what this has got to do with 63,000 women going bankrupt? Surely it's an idiot and her husband going bankrupt together i.e. a couple? That cannot be too uncommon? Who cares what gender or colour bankrupts are? It doesn't change anything. Admittedly I'd care more if she was 21, had big jugs and a nice figure. If you ignore the big jugs comment, it's clearly very liberal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 25 years ago first mortgage , good salary and I had to live on credit . My credit was borrow £2- £4 on a tuesday from a work mate and pay it back on Thursday pay day. It was a weekly ritual between Tuesday and Thursday that few £ bought my lunch and ten fags a day. Most people lived like this , borrow a few quid , porn brokers , slate at the corner shop . The big difference between now and then you could not run the credit up you borrowed it and paid it back without interest . So most people had two days a week living on very little . Small overdraughts , CC and loans have stopped people living like this but those small bits of borrowing have got bigger the interest has mounted and the opposite of saving has happened the compound interest has grown into big debts. Yes she and others have been very stupid but many of us were saved from ourselves as the credit was not there in the past . good post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfk Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 hateful article in the Daily Wail - read it online this morning and had similar thoughts to the majority on this thread ... :angry: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenelopeWaiting Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Here's my earlier post, just for your delectation: If you ignore the big jugs comment, it's clearly very liberal. Sorry Xurbia if I picked on your comment unfairly. I should have picked out one with dubious content rather than just language. And I appreciate the earlier comment you've now pointed out was very fair (if colourfully worded ) OK, let's say I laugh off the tone of comments (and I don't want to generalise myself... it is a minority of comments, but a minority that can be pervasive). Some do seem to reflect a genuine opinion that women and financial sense do not go together. But women have been managing household finances for as long as there have been households. They are now on the whole financially independent. And let's not forget the bankers who got us into this mess... what gender are they, on the whole? So I just don't get where it comes from. Lots of sensible men. Lots of sensible women. A whole lot of stupid men. A whole lot of stupid women. That's my point really. And it sounds like we agree. It's true, women have long been targeted as the ultimate consumer who can only be perfected through tucks, creams and heels.... much to the detriment of their self esteem and abilitiy to differentiate worth from shininess. But is spending money on hair extensions, makeup or the odd designer handbag really morally worse than computer games, iPods, iPads, a newer smarter car or skiing/surfing/extreme sports holidays? I work in an office that is 90% male. They spend more each week going out and getting pissed than I spend on makeup in a whole month. So I guess we're all responsible for this mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Yogi Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 you still havent explained what crime has been committed. she entered a credit agreement, a loan if you will, with several professional institutions, who make their living out of selling debt, and now she cant pay. the risk of default is why there is a risk adjustment, in normal times, for lending....people will default...the system demands it with boom and bust in credit. If she has defrauded creditors, the OR will find it and make her bankruptcy a criminal one.... Quite right. She hasn't defrauded anyone. She borrowed money from bankers at interest rates that reflected the likelihood of default. In other words, her default and subsequent bankruptcy has been factored into the business model of the banks that leant to her. Borrowing money from a bank, spending it, and being unable to pay it back may be foolish. It may be reprehensible, but it isn't fraud unless the intent was there in the first place not to repay the loan. The current system of insolvency and bankruptcy is just fine - it was the lending policy of the banks and their promotion of the 'buy now, pay later' and 'Keep up with the Joneses' culture that has got us into the current mess. She's still a silly cow, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbn Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 you're 100% correct penelope. Mrs sbn manages all the household finances- shes much better at it than i could ever be. And bicycle paraphenalia is make up for men! either way, your man will be home soon, i hope you,ve warmed his slippers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Monk Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Lots of sensible men. Lots of sensible women. A whole lot of stupid men. A whole lot of stupid women. That's my point really. And it sounds like we agree. Men who have made foolish and vain financial decisions are regularly savaged on the forum for their stupidity, and as for the derogatory comments about the woman's appearance and dress sense, this buffoon... Has spent much of the day being ridiculed for both. We are equal-opportunity misanthropes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Men who have made foolish and vain financial decisions are regularly savaged on the forum for their stupidity, and as for the derogatory comments about the woman's appearance and dress sense, this buffoon... Has spent much of the day being ridiculed for both. We are equal-opportunity misanthropes. leave my mum out of this please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miko Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I wonder how much of the £80k debt was interest on top of interest and then late payment charges. The banks write off millions a day on these debts but how much of that is lost profit and not lost money they have lent that has not come back . How much have they already made from these people over the years in high interest rates. Credit cards can take on a life of their own someone gets a few borrows and then the merry go round starts . Rob one to pay the other , pay interest on both ect ect . The Banks are creaming it and people like this are being ruined by it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Bart' Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 To look at my girlfriend's ex-husband you would think he was seriously wealthy, big detached house, top-of-the-range Mercedes, he owns a wine bar and is a fairly well-known local businessman. But there are now two charges against the house which was bought IO and is in £100,000 of negative equity, the car is about to be repo'd and the VAT man is circling for the kill. I have a tiny rented flat, no job and a 14 year old car but I am far wealthier than he is although you would never in a million years think so from superficial appearances. I think you've just summed up modern Britain in two paragraphs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenelopeWaiting Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 you're 100% correct penelope. Mrs sbn manages all the household finances- shes much better at it than i could ever be. And bicycle paraphenalia is make up for men! either way, your man will be home soon, i hope you,ve warmed his slippers! Btw, back on the topic, there's a documentary on Radio 4 right now about Pay Day loans Am off to listen to that (and warm those slippers) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tired of Waiting Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 you still havent explained what crime has been committed. she entered a credit agreement, a loan if you will, with several professional institutions, who make their living out of selling debt, and now she cant pay. the risk of default is why there is a risk adjustment, in normal times, for lending....people will default...the system demands it with boom and bust in credit. If she has defrauded creditors, the OR will find it and make her bankruptcy a criminal one.... Bankruptcy should also mean a minimum one year prison sentence with no exceptions. Both Daft Boy' and I are fully aware of the current legislation. He expressed his opinion on how it should be. In my opinion she is guilty of being reckless with borrowed money, a "criminal negligence", if you will. And should pay it back and/or go to jail for it. For instance: she should have a percentage taken from her salaries in the future, until the debt is cleared. Currently she will have these £80,000 debt wiped clean, at little real cost to her. It is unfair to the rest of us, who have to pick up the tab, as tax-payers, consumers, and receivers of (deteriorating) public services. Can't you see this?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNACR Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 To look at my girlfriend's ex-husband previous victim you would think he was seriously wealthy, big detached house, top-of-the-range Mercedes, he owns a wine bar and is a fairly well-known local businessman. But there are now two charges against the house which was bought IO and is in £100,000 of negative equity, the car is about to be repo'd and the VAT man is circling for the kill. I have a tiny rented flat, no job and a 14 year old car but I am far wealthier than he is although you would never in a million years think so from superficial appearances. I'm sure this isn't the case but I couldn't resist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xurbia Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Sorry Xurbia if I picked on your comment unfairly. I should have picked out one with dubious content rather than just language. And I appreciate the earlier comment you've now pointed out was very fair (if colourfully worded ) OK, let's say I laugh off the tone of comments (and I don't want to generalise myself... it is a minority of comments, but a minority that can be pervasive). Some do seem to reflect a genuine opinion that women and financial sense do not go together. But women have been managing household finances for as long as there have been households. They are now on the whole financially independent. And let's not forget the bankers who got us into this mess... what gender are they, on the whole? So I just don't get where it comes from. Lots of sensible men. Lots of sensible women. A whole lot of stupid men. A whole lot of stupid women. That's my point really. And it sounds like we agree. It's true, women have long been targeted as the ultimate consumer who can only be perfected through tucks, creams and heels.... much to the detriment of their self esteem and abilitiy to differentiate worth from shininess. But is spending money on hair extensions, makeup or the odd designer handbag really morally worse than computer games, iPods, iPads, a newer smarter car or skiing/surfing/extreme sports holidays? I work in an office that is 90% male. They spend more each week going out and getting pissed than I spend on makeup in a whole month. So I guess we're all responsible for this mess. Yes, there really are a lot of stupid people. It doesn't matter what colour or gender they are. I like a level playing field for all. Indeed, girls now outshine boys in the classroom on many levels, so in many respects the tables are reversing. There are few boundaries left in modern society. It annoys me when people use gender, colour or circumstance to their advantage. e.g. women who cry in the office place and man and women who leave work to look after their children, at the drop of a hat. Now there are loads of reckless people moaning that their debts are too high. I don't care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 From a comment responding to this article: http://www.citywire.co.uk/money/where-are-the-safety-nets-for-mortgage-borrowers/a470182?ohjuststopwhining "People shouldn't be so quick to bash people for making mistakes - we all have our reasons and not everything in life is as straight forward as some seem to think. I will demonstrate my situation. Four years ago whilst bombarded by the media and the general speak of the public, 'house prices can only go up'...i decided to make a six month investment. I decided to buy a house at £130k and in addition borrowed 7k for renovation purposes. The aim was to sell the house after six months and make some profit to help pay for my education. However, as soon as i put the house on the open market for sale, the market started to decline substantially. Four years later, i have done everything possible to pay the dam mortgage but it has come to the point now that i can't keep up with the payments. The house is probably worth 30 to 40k now but definitely no more than that so how can i be motivated to pay out £546 per month on an interest only mortgage? I dread the BOE raising interest rates as i will then be out on the street. Firstly, the Bank borrowed me a huge amount of money i could not afford to pay back. I will admit i was very naive at 22 years old. I didn't have the knowledge i do now and so i thought this was too easy an opportunity to make money, and to better myself. Everyone kept telling me how much profit they were making buying and selling houses. The Mortgage Broker i dealt with exploited my naivety and sold me a Mortgage Product i didn't ask for. I had to accept it or the contract would have fell through on the purchase of the house. There was sheer panic to buy and houses were in short supply. I later realised the broker made more commission from the product he sold me rather than the one most suited to my needs. I am now in this predicament because i wanted to educate myself and provide a better life for my family (in the areas that the Government and society were gravely failing them). In combination with naivety and a mentality indoctrinated by the media that house prices were only going up, in hindsight, i realise now i have made the biggest financial mistake of my life! I don't regret the experience though as it has helped make me become a critical thinker. I can now foresee other possibilities rather than what the media informs me. It transpires neither the Government nor any financial institution can be trusted as the general motive is to exploit for self gain. Upon further analysis and observation of the media and financial institutions, i can only see greed! To conclude, the irony is i am now better educated despite losing money in the house, the purpose of my investment in the first place. Never judge a book by its cover! I can only advise others to critically think before making any decisions and you will not end up in the predicament i am in today! Best wishes to all!" I am not sure if the above is a piss take comment, but if true, it shows how moronic blokes can be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNACR Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Hopefully, not too many guys go in for nail extensions; hair extensions, microwaving their insides to achieve a fake suntan etc. Nor do they buy and jettison "Fashion" clothes at quite the same dizzying rate as the fairer sex. When someone, man or woman, sets themselves up as a poseur (Failed), who blew the farm, by surrounding themselves with as many "Must Have" worthless trifles and gash possessions as possible; then admits they have been a complete incompetent fool, too boot: and tops this off, by dressing for a photograph in hugely unsuitable wannabe "Power Dressing" style, just done hair and excessive make-up, and simultaneously displays a tattoo and remarkably ugly and silly shoes, then to me, they are demonstrating loud and clear they have failed dismally to learn anything from their salutary experience and "Smell the coffee of reality" wake-up call. And are, thereby ripe for endless and fully justified ridicule. Let's face it: if she could find yet another idiot bank to advance a mortgage and a series of equally stupid credit card operators prepared to give her endless credit; then she would do precisely the same thing all over again. Finally, if all the foregoing were not enough, the silly woman openly admitted to having been an Estate Agent! Not the most popular occupation on this forum! I blame Ann Summer's storecards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Sando Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Men who have made foolish and vain financial decisions are regularly savaged on the forum for their stupidity, and as for the derogatory comments about the woman's appearance and dress sense, this buffoon... Has spent much of the day being ridiculed for both. We are equal-opportunity misanthropes. Made me think of Nathan Barley the best sit com of the last ten years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erranta Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) My 6 year old son has 6,000 in his child trust fund. Obviuosly he has no debt, giving a net wealth of 6,000. He's wealtheir than about 60% of the people I chat to when I'm out drinking. He's about £206K wealthier than someone I know who bought a big house in 2006. UK National debt We owe £15968 for every man, woman and child He's still in debt - tell him to save harder & no more presents until he's paid off all his debts Edited February 10, 2011 by erranta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Both Daft Boy' and I are fully aware of the current legislation. He expressed his opinion on how it should be. In my opinion she is guilty of being reckless with borrowed money, a "criminal negligence", if you will. And should pay it back and/or go to jail for it. For instance: she should have a percentage taken from her salaries in the future, until the debt is cleared. Currently she will have these £80,000 debt wiped clean, at little real cost to her. It is unfair to the rest of us, who have to pick up the tab, as tax-payers, consumers, and receivers of (deteriorating) public services. Can't you see this?? no...its inevitable in a boom and bust economy. the money is HERS the moment it is borrowed....money belongs to the holder, not the lender. She can spend it how she likes...indeed, money is lent for the sole purpose of spending it... If she was of criminal intent, the OR will make her bankruptcy criminal. there is no tab for others to pick up....society has already benefitted from the spending she has carried out....indeed, but LENDING is key to recovery...dontchaknow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juvenal Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Btw, back on the topic, there's a documentary on Radio 4 right now about Pay Day loans Am off to listen to that (and warm those slippers) I wear the trousers in my house. You can see them under my apron... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbn Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Btw, back on the topic, there's a documentary on Radio 4 right now about Pay Day loans Am off to listen to that (and warm those slippers) Hey - you're alright you! Why so few posts? - I'm known for sniffing out lurkers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tired of Waiting Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 no...its inevitable in a boom and bust economy. the money is HERS the moment it is borrowed....money belongs to the holder, not the lender. She can spend it how she likes...indeed, money is lent for the sole purpose of spending it... You keep using the present tense. Whilst we expressed our views on how we think things should be. If she was of criminal intent, the OR will make her bankruptcy criminal. there is no tab for others to pick up....society has already benefitted from the spending she has carried out....indeed, but LENDING is key to recovery...dontchaknow. Ok then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BreakingWaves Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Check out the MSE debt forums to find loads of similar stories generally posted by females. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xurbia Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 A whole lot of stupid men. Okay, just for you, here's a stupid man we crucified earlier: stupid man link He could probably do with some botox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miko Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Check out the MSE debt forums to find loads of similar stories generally posted by females. I look at them but think it is both male and females in equal number . One thing I have noticed by reading between the lines is that many seem to be very young. Is it a case that setting up home today whether rented or bought and then running that home is so expensive that the young have only been able to do it with credit , credit that has snowballed with interest payments which for many has now become unpayable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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