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Bbc Radio 2 Jeremy Vine: Is It Time To Stop Blaming The Banks?

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BBC Radio 2 Jeremy Vine: Is it time to stop blaming the banks?

Tue, 08 Feb 2011

12:00pm - 12:30pm

"Banks

As the Chancellor announces another levy on banks, is it time to stop blaming the banks, or have they not suffered enough yet?"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/b00y6n2x

Starts properly at 0:07:20

Keep blaming banks: Raphael de Santos, former head of equity derivatives research and strategy at Goldman Sachs

Stop blaming banks: James Max, broadcaster and former investment banker

HPC mantra spoken live on lunchtime BBC Radio 2.

I think you're going to enjoy this. :)

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Raphael de Santos:

"This is a banking system that has lost, by the estimates of the national monetary fund, £2.5 trillion since the start of this crash. We've also lost trillions in lost revenue and benefits that we've had to pay out because of the deepest recession since the 1930s because of the freezing of bank credit. We've also had to subsidise industries to stop them collapsing to the tune of trillions of pounds as well.

In the UK our deficit, our debt, has doubled in 3 years; prior to that it took 7 years. £175bn was directly put into the banks. £45bn was put out to subsidise industries. We've lost £150bn through tax revenues and the increased welfare benefits. The government, through the Bank of England, has printed £200bn to buy bonds from banks. That money has sat in the banks coffers to prop up any future losses, to lend speculatively; none of it has gone into the real economy.

We need a banking system that is socially responsible; that can create jobs. It has £560bn of capital; £5 trillion of assets. It has done nothing. There are 20% rate of unemployment with young people. We could create integrated public services, a free transport system, social housing... all these things and nothing is happening. We have huge unemployment, we're in a recession, we haven't recovered."

Jeremy Vine:

"With all these very strongly held feelings, how long did you manage to stay at Goldman Sachs International?"

Raphael de Santos:

"I was there for about four years during the mid-90s and I left investment banking in '98. I could see a credit bubble basically being created through the dot com and the housing market. I thought it was going to go then. Most of the people I worked with were motivated solely by making money; for me it was an intellectual challenge. Once that disappeared I went and did something socially useful."

James Max: "... I've never heard such utter garbage in my entire life..."

Edited by GordonBrownSpentMyFuture

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Other highlights...

Raphael de Santos:

"[The banks] are petrified of another crash and they are lending the money to speculators who are basically investing in the far east. There is a massive bubble being created there... and it's helping to cause global inflation and another crash in the east."

Caller - Miles Bachelor from Canterbury:

"They [the banks and the politicians] are all in it together. We've all just been ripped off... [they] have participated in the biggest fraud in history and I can't see any of them really paying the price for it."

Jeremy Vine:

"But you missed out the public from your list. It wasn't the bankers who took out the loans, the home loans and all that, it was all of us taking out silly mortgages."

Caller - Jill Jones from Leighton Buzzard: "[ We shouldn't tar every bank with the same brush.]"

Jeremy Vine:

"But what about banks like Barclays who arguably called it right: they didn't get too deep into housing because they've been stung in the early '90s and they had a very old fashioned clause somewhere that said do not invest too much in housing and apparently during the 2000s a lot of the bankers inside Barclays were saying "we've got to take this clause out because it's really old fashioned: we need to get back into property big time" and the more conservative people in the bank said "no, let's keep it; let's not get too stuck into this housing boom" and as a result they called it right."

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i shut off listening to people who are wrong whether that be on the tv, radio or face to face.

hence i turned it off after about 6 seconds when i spun to a part that said "we've got to stop bashing the banks".

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i shut off listening to people who are wrong whether that be on the tv, radio or face to face.

hence i turned it off after about 6 seconds when i spun to a part that said "we've got to stop bashing the banks".

Which is eactly what my reaction would have been if I hadn't already read the title - these myopic twats never saw any of the problems and they are not going to see the end result of any of this either.

Not fit for purpose right across the board.

Edited by OnlyMe

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Have either of you actually read what was said?

oh no offence i have read your posts and agree entirely, it's just i can't listen to the pompous banking tw@t and his misguided 'opinion'.

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Stop bashing them? :o

We haven't even got started! :lol:

We'll stop when they've all joined Madoff where they belong.

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Stop bashing them? :o

We haven't even got started! :lol:

We'll stop when they've all joined Madoff where they belong.

Not going to happen though is it? The country has been hijacked.

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oh no offence i have read your posts and agree entirely, it's just i can't listen to the pompous banking tw@t and his misguided 'opinion'.

None taken. James Max does come across as a particularly obnoxious character but then he is a former investment banker and "broadcaster", whatever the F that is.

Personally, I find it quite refreshing to hear the bleeding obvious being stated clearly in the mainstream media to a relatively wide audience. It's 8 years too late, of course, but the more I hear it the more I believe the sheeple are being buttered up for the inevitable.

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Have either of you actually read what was said?

Yes, anybody stupid enough to have a show with that title as the headline needs ignoring though.

utterly out of touch - the media the central bankers, the government, the banksters.

Shower of shit the lot of them.

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We could easily stop blaming them if the crisis was over, and they actually had cured the problems they caused.

They, however, carry on as if they had acheived exactly that.

they havent, they cant and they therefore are still culpable.

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Yes, anybody stupid enough to have a show with that title as the headline needs ignoring though.

I'd usually agree and especially about Vine as I find him particularly annoying but he seems to have a fair grasp of the situation. He certainly isn't advocating a return to previous lending practices which is quite refreshing on the BBC.

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Not going to happen though is it? The country has been hijacked.

Since when? The banks owned most European countries for hundreds of years. They chose which wars to payroll, which governments, even religions were tolerated. If you're looking for the point at which banks hijacked us, it's since before the bible was written. That's when. What occurs during our recession is trivial to the bankers, lets face it. History is full of recessions, turmoil, war. None of which would have been possible if not for bankers, so give it up to them, admire and respect them and their goals. Their goals are our goals, you just need to see through all the temporal "news" and see the agenda. If you figure out what this goal actually is, be sure to tell me as well, it will be muchly appreciated.

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James Max does come across as a particularly obnoxious character but then he is a former investment banker and "broadcaster", whatever the F that is.

Indeed, he was on The Apprentice when it was first made in the UK and then went on to be a presenter on some current affairs shows. One need look no further than his Wikipedia entry to fathom his motivations:

Overseas Property TV

On the Overseas Property TV station' date=' which broadcasts on channel 287 on Sky, Max has been a regular panellist on Ask The Property Experts and co-presents Property Pensions with Sian Jones, Profit from Property with Tris Payne and Property Boot Camp.

[b']Property Week[/b]

Max now presents the magazine's monthly podcast having written a monthly lifestyle column entitled "Something for the Weekend" – a look at "what’s hot and what’s not" – for Property Week magazine, a publication that circulates throughout the commercial property industry.

...

He regularly appears as a pundit on Jeremy Vine's BBC Radio 2 Show. In June 2010 he defended garden grabbing (the practice whereby developers build in the back gardens of existing homes) and in July he argued against the AV voting reform as proposed by the coalition government.

That said the other guy did come across as a bit ranty.

Edited by Timhm

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Not going to happen though is it? The country has been hijacked.

There's probably only 20,000 or so banksters and perhaps only a few hundred of much significance.

Against 60,000,000,000 people they're skimming scamming and scumming off.

I really don't fancy their chances much with those odds.

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Programmes like this simply fuel the fire. The banksters had their chance when this all began- they chose instead to rub the populations nose in the s h i t they excreted.

I can't see this ending well for the bankers in the long run- I will vote for any brand of madman who looks like taking these f*ckers down. What have I got to lose?

Edited by wonderpup

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hence i turned it off after about 6 seconds when i spun to a part that said "we've got to stop bashing the banks".

I just need to hear the name "Jeremy Vine", and I am reaching for radio dial. His whole show gives a voice to the most retarded points of view on the entire land and anytime anyone does actually phone in and make an incisive point, it just gets dismissed in favour of some more of Vine's zombie like drivel.

Personally, I find it quite refreshing to hear the bleeding obvious being stated clearly in the mainstream media to a relatively wide audience. It's 8 years too late, of course, but the more I hear it the more I believe the sheeple are being buttered up for the inevitable.

The obvious is being stated, but then with the whole "we should stop blaming the banks bull§hit being rammed down our throats". Wot the f**k does this stupid a§hole tw@t Jeremy Vine mean by "we were equally to blame with all our silly mortgages?". As if to say that everyone should stop being angry and just accept the banks ripping off the nation and the government colluding to it? Does this retard of a radio presenter actually feel that a big bunch of non economics phd holding proles, working on a subsistence wage, trying thier best to get a little bit of an advantage for themselves in the middle of a seemingly endless housing boom, should share any responsibility for the housing crash?

If I could press a little button that could end Jeremy Vine's life, it would have been pressed a long time ago and instead of having this thread now, we would be talking about some other brain dead radio call-in show.

Since when? The banks owned most European countries for hundreds of years. They chose which wars to payroll, which governments, even religions were tolerated. If you're looking for the point at which banks hijacked us, it's since before the bible was written. That's when. What occurs during our recession is trivial to the bankers, lets face it. History is full of recessions, turmoil, war. None of which would have been possible if not for bankers, so give it up to them, admire and respect them and their goals. Their goals are our goals, you just need to see through all the temporal "news" and see the agenda. If you figure out what this goal actually is, be sure to tell me as well, it will be muchly appreciated.

It is always a danger to apply a simplified paradigm to the world and filter everything you see accordingly. If the financial elite had alread 100% hi-jacked our political system and our economies, why would they waste anytime in proceeding to further hi-jack our poltical systems and our economies? Why try to steal something that you already own....unless you don't fully own it?

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I just need to hear the name "Jeremy Vine", and I am reaching for radio dial. His whole show gives a voice to the most retarded points of view on the entire land and anytime anyone does actually phone in and make an incisive point, it just gets dismissed in favour of some more of Vine's zombie like drivel.

...

+1

:lol::lol:

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Guest sillybear2

The real source of our troubles is the Bank of England and the government, they make the rules, and commercial banks simply exploit the framework they have set up. They institute policies that give away free money to a cartel then a bunch of greedy people without morals take advantage of that, then they use the profits to buy off politicians, regulators and the media in order to tilt the rules ever more in their favour, by putting the tax payer on the hook.

So we just need a bunch of honest people to take away all the props, let the banks stand on their own merits like normal enterprises, the banks will quickly find they won't be making enough money from utility banking and lower leverage in order to pay bonuses. Then all those quants will have to move on to other areas where there is a genuine demand for fresh ideas, like pharmacology or clean energy, something that does good for society. At the moment we have a huge misallocation of resources into socially useless endeavours.

If some bankers throw their toys out of the pram because nanny cut off their free money, fine, let them leave. Switzerland is requiring banks to hold twice the capital demanded by basel III, and nobody is going to trust a thinly capitalised bank "backed" by a tin-pot tax heaven. There's remarkably few options out there, surprisingly few sovereigns are willing or able to stand behind a bunch of gambling short-termist money grabbing crackheads, and that's what makes the UK the best country in the world... if you're a banker.

Edited by sillybear2

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Is it time to stop blaming the banks? - Yes. Far too many people who are quick to bash the bankers also need to look at themselves as part of the problem.

Lets look at this view.

Yes, there is very much a case for people to look at their overborrowing.

but why did it take place?

Why do BOTH my daughters, and their peers, ALL of them.....still think that prices ARE to high, but THAT isnt the problem...they all say, look, dad, we need to borrow loads just to buy a flat....how on earth are we going to do that when the mortgage people arent lending...we dont earn enough.

Why do they have this reverse attitude to lending?....they see the stupidity of it, but its not their issue...its the banks NOT lending sufficient...

so, we have a boom fueled by Ponzi finance, followed by a bust with Taxpayer finance, and now we have the unintended consequences of boom Ponzi asset prices and Taxpayer crippled taxpayers needing to buy those self same assets.

And the VI banking machine pleads for forgiveness.

And the VI banking machine is in full attack on the mind control front.....slick advertising showing them caring for you, wrapping your world in financial safety, mortgages for families, mortgages for growth, mortgages for retirement.....

People are hammered day in and day out to see the problem of not getting the mortgages they want to match the prices on the property and self reliance they want, as a shortcoming in themselves.

FEAR is again the root of the VI in housing. now the VIs want to make you afraid to even criticise the banksters, fear of being turned down for an outsize loan.

FEAR was the cause of the boom, fear of missing the boat....then FEAR of tanks on the streets if bankers werent bailed...

FEAR is the weapon of choice of the banksters.

Oh, and Denninger thought this video of deadbeat v bankster was quite a laugh...I havent watched more than 20 seconds worth yet, but looks promising

http://www.xtranorma.../watch/8320643

or denninger link here http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=179519

yes its 100% relevent to this thread.

Edited by Bloo Loo

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Is it time to stop blaming the banks? - Yes. Far too many people who are quick to bash the bankers also need to look at themselves as part of the problem.

You're partly right in that the banks aren't the whole problem. The three pillrs of the problem are bank debt, personal debt, government debt. All interlinked.

If we stop bashing the banks do we by extension then have to let previous governments and feckless personal borrowers off the hook too? The thought of that makes me feel ill.

It is not time to stop bashing the banks. It is time for brave, punative action - they ain't lending anyway. It is also time to start looking for bankers to prosecute for their criminal activities.

It is not time to let feckless personal borrowers off the hook either - the bankers get away with it then they get away with it too.

It is not time to stop bashing the previous government. They have to be held to account though it seems that Baron Eejit is more happy to use snide soundbiites than have any direct public debate with Balls.

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Lets look at this view.

Yes, there is very much a case for people to look at their overborrowing.

but why did it take place?

Why do BOTH my daughters, and their peers, ALL of them.....still think that prices ARE to high, but THAT isnt the problem...they all say, look, dad, we need to borrow loads just to buy a flat....how on earth are we going to do that when the mortgage people arent lending...we dont earn enough.

Why do they have this reverse attitude to lending?....they see the stupidity of it, but its not their issue...its the banks NOT lending sufficient...

so, we have a boom fueled by Ponzi finance, followed by a bust with Taxpayer finance, and now we have the unintended consequences of boom Ponzi asset prices and Taxpayer crippled taxpayers needing to buy those self same assets.

And the VI banking machine pleads for forgiveness.

And the VI banking machine is in full attack on the mind control front.....slick advertising showing them caring for you, wrapping your world in financial safety, mortgages for families, mortgages for growth, mortgages for retirement.....

People are hammered day in and day out to see the problem of not getting the mortgages they want to match the prices on the property and self reliance they want, as a shortcoming in themselves.

FEAR is again the root of the VI in housing. now the VIs want to make you afraid to even criticise the banksters, fear of being turned down for an outsize loan.

FEAR was the cause of the boom, fear of missing the boat....then FEAR of tanks on the streets if bankers werent bailed...

FEAR is the weapon of choice of the banksters.

Oh, and Denninger thought this video of deadbeat v bankster was quite a laugh...I havent watched more than 20 seconds worth yet, but looks promising

http://www.xtranorma.../watch/8320643

or denninger link here http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=179519

yes its 100% relevent to this thread.

I don't think FEAR will be a good defence in criminal courts when people have to explain why they committed fraud when applying for financial products. Do you?

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  • 284 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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