Si1 Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I know that, but I like the idea that although I can't afford to now, one day I can finish paying for a house and for the most part just quietly enjoy my life there without being constantly hassled by the state for tribute so it can go fight some more unwinnable wars, subsidise a few uneconomic car factories or bail out some failed financiers. No doubt if you fail to pay your land value tax, they will ultimately take your house away to pay for it. Sounds like having the government as my landlord for the rest of my life. fair enough the other thing is that, if you have spare money from renting, then there are other very tax-efficicient investments made available to you, so it's swings and roundabouts. The other option of course would be to remove income tax from landlord rental income (and only that); it is counter-intuitive, but this takes away the relative subsidy to homeowners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Knimbies who say No Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00y5jdp/You_and_Yours_07_02_2011/ podcast is now available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 fair enough the other thing is that, if you have spare money from renting, then there are other very tax-efficicient investments made available to you, so it's swings and roundabouts. The other option of course would be to remove income tax from landlord rental income (and only that); it is counter-intuitive, but this takes away the relative subsidy to homeowners wut? another tax break for BTL? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigantic Purple Slug Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I'd vote for any politician that advocates this. I vaguely remember there 18 million home-owners in the UK ( or possible mortgage owners ), that leaves 50 million non-mortgage owners...they are targeting the wrong voters. Last time I checked 4 year olds were'nt allowed to have a mortgage. Although a 4 year olds IQ is probably high enough to run a BTL empire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imminent_plunge Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 The median age in the UK is 38 so if you exclude the under 18s that would make the median age of somebody old enough to vote about 47 (i.e. born in 1964). Assuming there are no major changes to the population structure in the near future, the median voter will have been born in 1975 in 2022. In about 11 years' time then, the priced out generation will make up the majority of the electorate. If there hasn't been a natural economic correction by then, it could make for some interesting politics. True, but political short-termism means that you go with the majority of people who are voting now. It's political suicide to implement policies which would help in the long-term but lose popularity over a Government's election term. Only when the priced out generation make up the majority of the electorate and becomes THE major political issue will something be done to help them. There are far too many powerful VIs lobbying the Government for their own aims at present. And the coalition's response to anyone priced out is that 'it's Labour's mess.' 'There's nothing we can do'. Of course there's a lot they could do, but they won't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonBrownSpentMyFuture Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I've just listened. I think Shapps gets it and certainly spelled out that house prices had "doubled and tripled", that mortgages were being lent at 8x salary and that banks were lending at 120% but I see no indication that he's keen for there to be a HPC on his watch. In fact, he makes these bizarre statements that he'd like to see prices correct in the long term but stabilise in the short term and wants to know why banks aren't lending to "average" first time buyers in the current market ("average", in Shapps world, is a 25 year old doctor earning £2,400 net pcm). Well, Grant, it's because everyone wants and expects house prices to fall. Let it happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Last time I checked 4 year olds were'nt allowed to have a mortgage. Although a 4 year olds IQ is probably high enough to run a BTL empire. nonsense, the dead, the mentally ill, the unborn, a dog, a cat, the non existent....they could all get mortgages up to 2007...probably still do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rantnrave Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 nonsense, the dead, the mentally ill, the unborn, a dog, a cat, the non existent....they could all get mortgages up to 2007...probably still do. They've also all been factored into the equation for paying off our national debt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tired of Waiting Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I've just listened. I think Shapps gets it and certainly spelled out that house prices had "doubled and tripled", that mortgages were being lent at 8x salary and that banks were lending at 120% but I see no indication that he's keen for there to be a HPC on his watch. In fact, he makes these bizarre statements that he'd like to see prices correct in the long term but stabilise in the short term and wants to know why banks aren't lending to "average" first time buyers in the current market ("average", in Shapps world, is a 25 year old doctor earning £2,400 net pcm). Well, Grant, it's because everyone wants and expects house prices to fall. Let it happen. Yes, he made it very clear that prices are too high, but then he says that, ideally, the correction should be very slow. Not sure if he means it, or if this is just careful language, to avoid panic. But he did say that housing the population should be a priority of any government; and that housing became progressively less affordable, that prices doubled or tripled, and are now well out of the range of average people, 8 times average income, etc. A long list of critical comments re. current high prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R K Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 All I've heard from Grantley Chapps are statements of fact. What policies - he's a govt. minister after all - is he proffering? He's been in govt. nearly a year now and will exit in a little over 48 months. Anyone can regurgitate facts about lending and price data - what has he committed to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Knimbies who say No Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 All I've heard from Grantley Chapps are statements of fact. What policies - he's a govt. minister after all - is he proffering? He's been in govt. nearly a year now and will exit in a little over 48 months. Anyone can regurgitate facts about lending and price data - what has he committed to do? Well, if he's nothing to say after his upcoming meeting on the 15th, then it can be assumed that he's happy to do nothing, which is all we should need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executive Sadman Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 At least its not Jeremy Whine. Last time I heard him on R2 re house prices, his words were to the tune of 'its time for the banks to start gambling again by lending more' without a moment of hesitation or hint of sarcasm. Its funny how presentation counts for so much. We all think R2 is a serious station because its presented in a sober, conservative manner, yet its reporting standards are as poor as any commercial station. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rantnrave Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Well, if he's nothing to say after his upcoming meeting on the 15th, then it can be assumed that he's happy to do nothing, which is all we should need. +1 Non-interference would be a considerable impovement over what we've had in recent years. Slight tangent - read somewhere today, probably in HPC, that the '74 - '78 crash was a stealth one that saw time and inflation (same thing?) bring HPs back to affordability. Is that a model we are following right now? Anyone have any more insight here??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Not listened it yet. I don;t deny that a large factor in the lower number of FTBs is lack of finance available -- too little, too expensive. Hardly suprising when about 70%+ of mortgage lenders of 2005 vintage are either bust or in some form of government-help bustness. But there is another factor that no-one appears to be discussing - demographics. There is a significant fall in the number of pople who are 20 to 30 years younger than boomers i.e those 25->40 ish. I don't think people have really contooned on to this. There has been some reasearch on demographics on equity values. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Bear Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Why is it so hard for these people to understand that it's not mortgage availability that's the problem it's the price. I'm a simple pleb and can understand that! They've got cast-iron blinkers welded on. It'd take a surgical operation to remove them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonBrownSpentMyFuture Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 At least its not Jeremy Whine. Last time I heard him on R2 re house prices, his words were to the tune of 'its time for the banks to start gambling again by lending more' without a moment of hesitation or hint of sarcasm. ts funny how presentation counts for so much. We all think R2 is a serious station because its presented in a sober, conservative manner, yet its reporting standards are as poor as any commercial station. +1 Politicians only seem to have an opinion of their own once they've left politics. Shapps is either playing to his audience or he's received a new memo from those high above (and I don't mean the Prime Minister or deities). I hope to be proved wrong. Get your pecker out, Shapps, and show them who's in charge! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashConnoisseur Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Slight tangent - read somewhere today, probably in HPC, that the '74 - '78 crash was a stealth one that saw time and inflation (same thing?) bring HPs back to affordability. Yes, house prices remained nominally stable while the average price of labour rose strongly ('wage inflation'). Is that a model we are following right now? No, because today wages are only rising at 1.1% a year (for those who keep their jobs). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conrad Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Yes, house prices remained nominally stable while the average price of labour rose strongly ('wage inflation'). No, because today wages are only rising at 1.1% a year (for those who keep their jobs). Maybe we are going back to a time before the 70's. In the 50's and 60's buying a house was not the norm, so maybe the austerity will hit in the form of tightened credit and buyers will simply give up unless they have 3 x earnings. whos know! I blooody well wish I had a crystal ball. I'm 99% sure though that NOW is not the time to buy a floopin 'ouse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashConnoisseur Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Politicians only seem to have an opinion of their own once they've left politics. Shapps is either playing to his audience or he's received a new memo from those high above (and I don't mean the Prime Minister or deities). He will have been advised what line to take to suit the majority of the Radio 4, You and Yours audience i.e. mostly left-of-centre middle aged people who aren't in full-time work. For a different audience (e.g. aspirational middle-Englanders) he'll be well advised to emphasise a different message. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milton Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 (edited) Im beginning to adopt the feeling that the pendulum has tipped in our favour and we will soon begin rapid acceleration in the opposite direction. Working my **** off. AND I MEAN REALLY working my **** off for over ten years, and each month having to give a wedge the size of my fist to a liar loan landlord, I feel as though Ive been pounded into the ground with a mallet. Completely and utterly battered. Nothing to offfer. Working for nothing. No capital. Completely and utterly ignored by y Labour MP, who ended up on the front page of the Daily Telegraph, fiddling over £200k profit flipping houses. We've been thoroughly abused for over a decade. I really hope the worms finally turning. All joking aside I really have had well past the f@ck enough. Edited February 7, 2011 by Dan1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Well, if he's nothing to say after his upcoming meeting on the 15th, then it can be assumed that he's happy to do nothing, which is all we should need. +1 his job is to act as a decoy, talk a lot (he's quite good at that), keep the VIs befuddled for a while, and do sweet F*ck All he does not appear to be a politician of depth, which reflects the fact that the Lib-Con government have no intention to do much at all, otherwise they would have put his remit with someone with more ability like Cable, Alexander, or Theresa May Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rantnrave Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Im beginning to adopt the feeling that the pendulum has tipped in our favour and we will soon begin rapid acceleration in the opposite direction. Agreed. Recent data suggesting stabilising prices are all seasonally adjusted hogwash. Strip that factor out and the falls are still there. Once the SA goes the other way, we are in line for some quite nice % drop headline figures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tired of Waiting Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Agreed. Recent data suggesting stabilising prices are all seasonally adjusted hogwash. Strip that factor out and the falls are still there. Once the SA goes the other way, we are in line for some quite nice % drop headline figures. Good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fellow Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Agreed. Recent data suggesting stabilising prices are all seasonally adjusted hogwash. Strip that factor out and the falls are still there. Once the SA goes the other way, we are in line for some quite nice % drop headline figures. The drops are also being masked by the shift towards a higher percentage of expensive properties being sold, as the volumes at the FTB end have fallen off a cliff, as can be seen in the latest Nationwide figures. As volumes increase, the price drops will become more apparent. Those with Property Bee will know that prices are dropping much faster than the official figures suggest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tired of Waiting Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 The drops are also being masked by the shift towards a higher percentage of expensive properties being sold, as the volumes at the FTB end have fallen off a cliff, as can be seen in the latest Nationwide figures. As volumes increase, the price drops will become more apparent. Those with Property Bee will know that prices are dropping much faster than the official figures suggest. Another v. good point. BTW, don't we have any index adjusted by property type/size, etc.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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