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http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/feb/06/debt-misery-survey-loans

centaurforward

6 February 2011 11:11AM

What does the press do with its archives? They always treat subjects like this as if they were something new. Thanks to Maggie's swingeing cuts, I found myself in mountains of debt in 1985! My solution then was to run away! Well, to be more precise, I took N.T.'s advice (almost) & put my bike in the back of a removals van & moved to the land of milk & honey.

I did quite well, having found a job before I moved - although on my first day, I was told that my position had been taken by A.N. Other, "in error"! I phoned whatever the Jobcentre was called in those days and told them what had happened. Ten minutes later, the employer phoned, having found me another position, "just like that"! (snaps fingers).

The company got taken over & usurped a total of FIVE times in five years, but each new owner gave us a pay rise, so my income went up from £90p.w. in 1986 to £330p.w. in 1990! Quite impressive, n'est-ce pas? No! In 1990 we were encumbered with a prat of the first water (as Old Ron called him) as manager. He was essentially an alarms fitter who had been on new-wave management courses - he kept leaving Post-its everywhere with inane messages like "Don't work harder - work smarter", "Think outside the box", etc. In return, we'd leave messages like "more money, now!" or "****** off, you twit!". This moron with his new ideas, put us on the 8-day week, so my income dropped from £330 to £250p.w. My then wife, allegedly a supervisor ( until the Aussies took over, we'd all managed okay without supervision, but then again, having some pretentious prat take responsibility from us was quite welcome!), negotiated a deal where she kept her wage in return for more responsibility!!

Anyway, Maggie gave way to Major & his 15% Interest Rate. Huh, our mortgage repayments went up from £525-a-month to £860-a-month, out of a joint income of £1250 (nett). Unable to cope with the pressure from the mad manager, kidney stones & IBS, a neurotic wife and soaring debt, I had a breakdown, spent 3 months in Brixton (till they started putting bogs in the cells) & Wandsworth for "Irresponsible Behaviour" (????) and moved back Northwards.

I also discovered that I had £72,000 of debt! £38,000 of which was negative equity! C.A.B. helped me out a lot & arranged several moratoria, easing my burden so much, I could tax & insure the car (necessary to look for work within a 50-mile radius), eat well, and indulge in beer & kebabs at the weekend!

I gave all the demand letters to C.A.B., who also arranged injunctions to stop them phoning me. After two years, I'd got myself to UWA and declared myself bankrupt. However, heart failure & Student Loan debt put me back in a dodgy situation. I managed to find work, but it was sporadic. So I built up more debt. I declared myself bankrupt again in 2001 - having borrowed from a creditor to pay the fee!

Nowadays, having been declared permanently disabled and thus, permanently incapable of work, living in Sheltered Housing, the Student Loan debt has been cancelled; I get DLA & 3 I.S. Disability Benefits, so I can pay my bills, take holidays & drive a Motability-supplied car. However, I would much rather have been able to complete my B.Sc.(Hons) Degree and the M.A. that the Senior Tutor had lined up for me, so that I could have been making my own way in the world for the last 13 years, thank you!

Obviously, Tory Britain means the poor do indeed get poorer & risk prison, while the system will continue to give silver-spoon- fed oiks everything they seldom deserve.

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The Guardian will be going on and on about Maggie even when today's younger generations have never even heard of her - that all they know is the corruption and lies on a long Labour administration.

Not much of a 'prediction' is it? She left office in 1990! China has industrialised since she left office. What have we done?

http://www.technochitlins.com/archives/2005/04/the_monkey_cage_1.html

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The Guardian will be going on and on about Maggie even when today's younger generations have never even heard of her - that all they know is the corruption and lies on a long Labour administration.

Not much of a 'prediction' is it? She left office in 1990! China has industrialised since she left office. What have we done?

Created debt and deindustrialized.

The original article - serial debtors, largely self-imposed, wash and rinse.

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http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/feb/06/debt-misery-survey-loans

centaurforward

I also discovered that I had £72,000 of debt! £38,000 of which was negative equity! C.A.B. helped me out a lot & arranged several moratoria, easing my burden so much, I could tax & insure the car (necessary to look for work within a 50-mile radius), eat well, and indulge in beer & kebabs at the weekend!

I gave all the demand letters to C.A.B., who also arranged injunctions to stop them phoning me. After two years, I'd got myself to UWA and declared myself bankrupt. However, heart failure & Student Loan debt put me back in a dodgy situation. I managed to find work, but it was sporadic. So I built up more debt. I declared myself bankrupt again in 2001 - having borrowed from a creditor to pay the fee!

Nowadays, having been declared permanently disabled and thus, permanently incapable of work, living in Sheltered Housing, the Student Loan debt has been cancelled; I get DLA & 3 I.S. Disability Benefits, so I can pay my bills, take holidays & drive a Motability-supplied car. However, I would much rather have been able to complete my B.Sc.(Hons) Degree and the M.A. that the Senior Tutor had lined up for me, so that I could have been making my own way in the world for the last 13 years, thank you!

Obviously, Tory Britain means the poor do indeed get poorer & risk prison, while the system will continue to give silver-spoon- fed oiks everything they seldom deserve.

Well we all make mistakes and desisions , then things can alter around us and things can get completly out of control.

When I look back at my life and the fu-k ups it is usually part me part outside influences.

But the £72 k of debt back then I have to ask if there was massive overspending and living beyound ones means at some point prior to it building up.

Take off the £38 k NE and that leaves £34k of other debt . How did that build up ? My whole mortgage taken out in 1986 for a new two bed flat was only £34,500 and I was earning just under £280 a week when I took it out and about £350 a week in 1990. Yes mortgage rates went up from an average of 12% in the late 80's to 15% by 1990 but they only stayed that high for a year , and the first 30k was reduced by miras , the 34k extra debt could not have just been racked up from trying to pay the mortgage there must have been lots of other debt due to living beyound ones means. Looking back I had a few k on credit and then one car loan for 4k . I knew my limitations and knew I could not afford any more credit.

Redundancy hit me in 1990 but it did not send me that much in the red as I had not overspent while earning the same kind of money that is stated here.

Bankrupt and then Bankrupt again . I read the Bankruptacy boards on MSE and most of those people say never again NEVER NEVER NEVER I will never borrow money again for any reason . Yet you went Bankrupt twice within a few years .

A woman once said to me years ago

" you and money do not get on "

I now understand what she meant , it has taken me years to realize just how much money I can and have wasted ( much has gone through my hands over the years ) but having earnt the kind of money you talk about here . I have never got anywhere near being bankrupt. Maybe you are very bad at dealing with money ?

Sorry about the illness that can hit at anytime . Yes it would have been better making your own way in the world but at least there is a saftey net .

You must be getting the top rate DLA to have the car component I know someone getting that , like you he is provided with a home rent and council tax free plus enough to live on like youself so financially it is ok.

He went bankrupt a few years ago . He sat on a computer and spent money on high interest CC raked up the debt and declared bankruptacy. They could not touch his weekly income as the law says that is the minimum he must have to live on , the car is not taken but will be replaced with a new one every 3 years taxed insured and serviced for free. The home being free is not taken and is still council tax exempt , so really he just went bankrupt and his debts were written off for him .

Remember having a conversation with him a few years ago and we worked out that a single person working would need a pre tax income of £35k to have his standard of living you must be the same .

That is a lot more than I now earn , I will not be having a holiday this year as low earnings even though I am now mortgage free will not cover one just paying the council tax and keeping the car on the road (6 years old ) now comes to nearly £300 per month so those 2 things alone that have to be paid by someone making their own way in the world kill any chance of a holiday.

You have had some bad luck and illness and have also made some sh-t disisions in your life , we all have thats life ! but financialy you are now being looked after by the saftey net many people working out there would give their right arm for your standard of living and financial peace of mind right now.

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Seems to me that the author of this piece wants to blame everyone but himself for his bad decisions in life.

Somewhat typical of the average Guardian reader who see government as a replacement parent rather than mere provider of infrastructure and statute.

This country won't really be making any improvements until he and the others here who think this tripe is so right on grow up.

The instability of the Thatcher/Major years were a direct consequence of the preceding Labour administration. They made made serious errors too and the country would have been sunk entirely without North Sea oil but this time around its going to be a lot worse and more big government (or surrogate Mummy as the Guardian readers prefer) is not going to solve our problems.

Here's a comment on the original :

* UnevenSurface

6 February 2011 3:08AM

A worthy topic, but terrible examples. The first is a young couple who had a baby they could not afford, and the second is a lady who took out a bank loan for a holiday in Greece (she then became redundant - which is a prime and disastrous cause of debt - but who takes out a loan for a foreign holiday? If you can't afford it, you can't afford it.)

The article then continues:

However, on the Trident estate, where more than half of the residents are unemployed and 70% get housing benefit, mainstream lending options are not available to many because they are considered too risky.

Which makes it seem that the author thinks it should be easier for people to run up more debt. Yes, current off-piste lending practices are draconian, but the cure is not to make borrowing easier.

Says it all really.

Edited by TwoWolves

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Guest sillybear2

Seems to me that the author of this piece wants to blame everyone but himself for his bad decisions in life.

He'd make a good banker.

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Seems to me that the author of this piece wants to blame everyone but himself for his bad decisions in life.

Human nature. Immigrants, weather, whatever - everyone wants a scapegoat.

Somewhat typical of the average Guardian reader who see government as a replacement parent rather than mere provider of infrastructure and statute.

Really? Have you conducted a survey> Post up the results old chap I'd like to see what an average Guardian reader thinks.

This country won't really be making any improvements until he and the others here who think this tripe is so right on grow up.

The UK will not improve.

The instability of the Thatcher/Major years were a direct consequence of the preceding Labour administration. They made made serious errors too and the country would have been sunk entirely without North Sea oil but this time around its going to be a lot worse and more big government (or surrogate Mummy as the Guardian readers prefer) is not going to solve our problems.

The problems of the Thatcher years were the decision to go along with the Regan administration's blind faith in Monetarism and the globalised free market. Deregulation has allowed the banks to screw the economy and now they are bust and so is western capitalism. The inarguable ineptitude of the Labour party over the years has done nothing to address the problem. The evolution of "New" Labour and the "Third Way" sh1t of millionaire property speculator Anthony Blair put the final nail in the coffin. Thatcher's decision to squander the money from North Sea Oil on tax cuts to the super rich has left the UK ill placed to survive what now lays ahead of it.

Government, big or small, has a vital role to play in rebuilding the west and its economy. The current fad for blaming government for everything and so logically thinking the less of it we have the better is to fall into the trap of thinking that the super rich (aka the free market) is somehow going to deliver when it has never delivered anything ever. The solution (if indeed there is one) will require co-operation between business and government at a level not seen before.

(We do not get the Guardian here in France before you ask. I read the FT online. The Guardian is not worth the quid IMO even if you could get it here)

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Thanks to Maggie's swingeing cuts, I found myself in mountains of debt in 1985! My solution then was to run away

The sense of entitlement is palpable

Do these people never entertain the idea that they may be the architects of their problems.

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Guest sillybear2

Human nature. Immigrants, weather, whatever - everyone wants a scapegoat.

I blame the scapegoats.

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  • 284 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
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      • up 5%



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