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Or should that be runaway?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/8303863/BA-ups-fuel-surcharge-for-second-time-in-two-months.html

BA ups fuel surcharge for second time in two months

BA ups fuel surcharge for second time in two months

British Airways has increased its fuel surcharge for the second time in two months, meaning that a family of four have to pay a £704 on a return long-haul economy flight.

A family of four will now have to pay a £704 on a return long-haul economy flight

A family of four will now have to pay a £704 on a return long-haul economy flight Photo: PA

Harry Wallop

By Harry Wallop, and Oliver Smith 5:14PM GMT 04 Feb 2011

Harry Wallop's Twitter

31 Comments

This is the latest evidence that travelling by aeroplane is becoming increasingly expensive, following substantial increases in Air Passenger Duty, a government tax that came into force at the end of last year.

The £12 increase in fuel surcharges – or an extra £24 on a return flight – follows a £10 increase that BA introduced in December.

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Or should that be runaway?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/8303863/BA-ups-fuel-surcharge-for-second-time-in-two-months.html

BA ups fuel surcharge for second time in two months

BA ups fuel surcharge for second time in two months

British Airways has increased its fuel surcharge for the second time in two months, meaning that a family of four have to pay a £704 on a return long-haul economy flight.

A family of four will now have to pay a £704 on a return long-haul economy flight

A family of four will now have to pay a £704 on a return long-haul economy flight Photo: PA

Harry Wallop

By Harry Wallop, and Oliver Smith 5:14PM GMT 04 Feb 2011

Harry Wallop's Twitter

31 Comments

This is the latest evidence that travelling by aeroplane is becoming increasingly expensive, following substantial increases in Air Passenger Duty, a government tax that came into force at the end of last year.

The £12 increase in fuel surcharges – or an extra £24 on a return flight – follows a £10 increase that BA introduced in December.

The flight OUT is always more expensive than the flight in. I'm looking at the flight out of the UK I'm taking at the end of the week:

£65 to get out of the country ~

16 Surcharge for fuel out of the UK

12 airport tax

13 passenger service charge

24 for the actual ticket.

On the way back

£4 airport tax

£2 handling fee

£20 for the ticket.

It gets more ridiculous the farther afield I go. HK for instance the Taxes on the UK side were about £195 the flight all the way to Asia was £32. On the way back due to HK not having airport tax or rather it didn't when I went there and came back the cost was about £150 all in. Even with HK airport tax it'd only be £160.

But then again I only fly if I am short on time. I'm hoping to build a 250mpg bike. Which has a 56mph cruising speed. Meaning anywhere in Europe can be gotten to for £15 of fuel and minimal UK taxes.

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Thing is who is stupid enough to fly BA these days anyway? They are more expensive for no particular reason. They have surley staff, old knackered aircraft, regularly go on strike and are based in theifhrow too.

Tbh I'd let the company die horribly.

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But then again I only fly if I am short on time. I'm hoping to build a 250mpg bike. Which has a 56mph cruising speed. Meaning anywhere in Europe can be gotten to for £15 of fuel and minimal UK taxes.

Aim high. :o

How the hell are you going to do that?! What cc 250? They're about 70mpg normally? Lot of wind reistance even at 56mph on a bike.

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Aim high. :o

How the hell are you going to do that?! What cc 250? They're about 70mpg normally? Lot of wind reistance even at 56mph on a bike.

I'm aiming low, the record is held by a Japanese bloke, he managed 470ish MPG for a US gallon. non-real world conditions (real world conditions he got 385mpg (US gal). He did it in 1985, with a massively modified bike. He never told anybody any specifics on how he acheived his high MPG and he didn't cheap either. His prototype was destroyed years ago.

Personally I think 200mpg is an easy target,there's been 25 years of engine development such as FI from carbs.

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Flown to Thailand many times, used all manner of airlines as i go with the cheapest, within reason, won't use Areoflot, Turkish etc. Anyway BA have never came anywhere close on price for me to consider them.

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I'm aiming low, the record is held by a Japanese bloke, he managed 470ish MPG for a US gallon. non-real world conditions (real world conditions he got 385mpg (US gal). He did it in 1985, with a massively modified bike. He never told anybody any specifics on how he acheived his high MPG and he didn't cheap either. His prototype was destroyed years ago.

Personally I think 200mpg is an easy target,there's been 25 years of engine development such as FI from carbs.

Off the shelf mopeds - top out at 150mpg, but ony 50cc....... Even if you could squeeze 150 outof a bigger bike and still keep it practical/comfortable/safe you;d be doing remarkably well without throwing shedloads of money at it. I think.

http://hubpages.com/hub/MPG-Guide-The-Fuel-Economy-Of-250-Top-Selling-Scooters

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Off the shelf mopeds - top out at 150mpg, but ony 50cc....... Even if you could squeeze 150 outof a bigger bike and still keep it practical/comfortable/safe you;d be doing remarkably well without throwing shedloads of money at it. I think.

http://hubpages.com/hub/MPG-Guide-The-Fuel-Economy-Of-250-Top-Selling-Scooters

Mopeds are no good for many reasons:

The are almost always belt powered which means you can't fiddle with the gearing.

The are automatic which means you can't manually keep the revs low and stick extra gears on it to optimise engine RPM.

2 stroke which means engine rebuilds.

Also being 50cc aren't allowed on motorways.

Small wheels also mean poor stability handling and fuel economy. Bigger wire wheels are lighter and you can reduce rolling resistance of.

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Mopeds are no good for many reasons:

The are almost always belt powered which means you can't fiddle with the gearing.

The are automatic which means you can't manually keep the revs low and stick extra gears on it to optimise engine RPM.

2 stroke which means engine rebuilds.

Also being 50cc aren't allowed on motorways.

Small wheels also mean poor stability handling and fuel economy. Bigger wire wheels are lighter and you can reduce rolling resistance of.

OK, but with the bigger engines - the mpg is nowhere near 150mpg, more weight - bigger engine, beefier suspension and all parts including gearbox/clutch to handle power. The belters have a higher mileage than geared 50cc's ??

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OK, but with the bigger engines - the mpg is nowhere near 150mpg, more weight - bigger engine, beefier suspension and all parts including gearbox/clutch to handle power. The belters have a higher mileage than geared 50cc's ??

Let me worry about that. You're focused on the wrong thing it isn't weight which is important or hp its air resistance. It's just a little project to tinker on during summer evenings. If I make it then good, if I don't at least I've not wasted yet another summer on HPC B)

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Let me worry about that. You're focused on the wrong thing it isn't weight which is important or hp its air resistance. It's just a little project to tinker on during summer evenings. If I make it then good, if I don't at least I've not wasted yet another summer on HPC B)

You are right - especially at 56mph target speed for mpg wind resistance is the nut to crack.

Good luck and bring on the long evenings.

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Flown to Thailand many times, used all manner of airlines as i go with the cheapest, within reason, won't use Areoflot, Turkish etc. Anyway BA have never came anywhere close on price for me to consider them.

Haven't flown them in a while, but Turkish were quite good. Best looking waitresses I've ever seen as well.

BA, I agree, is a complete joke. Once had to use them Bangkok-London cuz of emergency and it was a disgrace at about 50% more expensive than say Gulf Air.

Once I call it quits in the global economy, I won't use airlines at all. Hell, even fossil fuels aren't that necessary if you aren't in a rush. And ask yourself why you are in a rush anyway.

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Haven't flown them in a while, but Turkish were quite good. Best looking waitresses I've ever seen as well.

BA, I agree, is a complete joke. Once had to use them Bangkok-London cuz of emergency and it was a disgrace at about 50% more expensive than say Gulf Air.

Once I call it quits in the global economy, I won't use airlines at all. Hell, even fossil fuels aren't that necessary if you aren't in a rush. And ask yourself why you are in a rush anyway.

To be fair BA is direct and only 4 fly direct from Heathrow or is it 5. But saying that my cheapest flight ever was Thai Air and Eva a close second with free coach travel included from Birmingham. Direct flights are at a premium of about an extra £100 in my experience unless they are having a seat sale. Not sure why because doing that 12 hour flight is a killer.

Have heard that BA fly attendants are stuck up something i experienced with Air France, never again with them.

So you going to get a boat in future then?

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To be fair BA is direct and only 4 fly direct from Heathrow or is it 5. But saying that my cheapest flight ever was Thai Air and Eva a close second with free coach travel included from Birmingham. Direct flights are at a premium of about an extra £100 in my experience unless they are having a seat sale. Not sure why because doing that 12 hour flight is a killer.

Have heard that BA fly attendants are stuck up something i experienced with Air France, never again with them.

So you going to get a boat in future then?

In the future I will never come back here. I wouldn't be here now if there were decent english language schools near our home or if I had corporate sponsorship. In my own small way I'm draining the wealth of the country and taking it out east. I hate the UK and can't wait to leave it forever.

If you don't mind a few hours extra, there are very good deals with mid east airlines that do the london-bangkok route. Cheapest I've seen lately, though, is with Kingfisher thru Delhi but that can sometimes mean a 16 hour layover.

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In the future I will never come back here. I wouldn't be here now if there were decent english language schools near our home or if I had corporate sponsorship. In my own small way I'm draining the wealth of the country and taking it out east. I hate the UK and can't wait to leave it forever.

If you don't mind a few hours extra, there are very good deals with mid east airlines that do the london-bangkok route. Cheapest I've seen lately, though, is with Kingfisher thru Delhi but that can sometimes mean a 16 hour layover.

Thought Kingfisher went through Mumbai, have heard it's a hell hole and anything more than a few hours is not a good idea.

I've used Emirates the most in the past as they fly from Birmingham and was a similar price to Heathrow without the hassle of getting there, but they seem to have hiked their prices lately.

Looks like the days of cheap deals are over with taxes and the price of oil going up.

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Thought Kingfisher went through Mumbai, have heard it's a hell hole and anything more than a few hours is not a good idea.

I've used Emirates the most in the past as they fly from Birmingham and was a similar price to Heathrow without the hassle of getting there, but they seem to have hiked their prices lately.

Looks like the days of cheap deals are over with taxes and the price of oil going up.

I dunno. I flew the family, four of us, last year on Thai for a little over £2K round trip. That's not much more than I paid back in the late 90s. Granted Thai ain't what it used to be, but it still seems reasonable to me. From what I've seen planning this years trip it looks about the same.

I'm just guessing here, but probably business and first class fares have shot up long haul, but for economy you have the drop in demand counteracting the increase in fuel costs. And with all the silly national airlines still being subsidised there isn't a supply squeeze. I've also looked into flying from somewhere like Istanbul to avoid the long haul tax out of europe, but there are no savings.

Kingfisher goes through both Delhi and Mumbai, I think. I've only checked a few flights though and have always been put off by the layovers.

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I dunno. I flew the family, four of us, last year on Thai for a little over £2K round trip. That's not much more than I paid back in the late 90s. Granted Thai ain't what it used to be, but it still seems reasonable to me. From what I've seen planning this years trip it looks about the same.

I'm just guessing here, but probably business and first class fares have shot up long haul, but for economy you have the drop in demand counteracting the increase in fuel costs. And with all the silly national airlines still being subsidised there isn't a supply squeeze. I've also looked into flying from somewhere like Istanbul to avoid the long haul tax out of europe, but there are no savings.

Kingfisher goes through both Delhi and Mumbai, I think. I've only checked a few flights though and have always been put off by the layovers.

True when you factor in inflation flights are cheaper. Was told flights in the early 90's where about 1k. So you can't moan at the prices.

Maybe the demand is keeping prices down, but haven't airlines cut capacity. I know when the SHTF in 2008,Emirates was doing flights all year from any airport for £400 just to fill seats, but they have cut many routes i think now and their prices have shot up.

I'm only 39 and intend wintering in Thailand for the next 20 years. Unless peak oil is true of course.

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I'm just guessing here, but probably business and first class fares have shot up long haul, but for economy you have the drop in demand counteracting the increase in fuel costs. And with all the silly national airlines still being subsidised there isn't a supply squeeze. I've also looked into flying from somewhere like Istanbul to avoid the long haul tax out of europe, but there are no savings.

Not in my narrow experience. I fly business to Hong Kong and Tokyo roughly once a year, and I think it's fell in a straight line for the last 5 years. I remember paying around £8k on BA back in 2004, around £6k in 2008. Last week it was around £3800 in on Virgin Upper including cars at both ends.

The fares do vary a lot though, so maybe that's just been luck and the company looking for better deals.

Edited by Kyoto

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Not in my narrow experience. I fly business to Hong Kong and Tokyo roughly once a year, and I think it's fell in a straight line for the last 5 years. I remember paying around £8k on BA back in 2004, around £6k in 2008. Last week it was around £3800 in on Virgin Upper including cars at both ends.

The fares do vary a lot though, so maybe that's just been luck and the company looking for better deals.

And Business Class BKK-AUH-LHR (ret.) is now down to B75000 (1500GBP) on Etihad.

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Let me worry about that. You're focused on the wrong thing it isn't weight which is important or hp its air resistance. It's just a little project to tinker on during summer evenings. If I make it then good, if I don't at least I've not wasted yet another summer on HPC B)

There may be some inspiration here

These are 80mph human powered bicycles. As a cyclist, I can guess the riders are generating 1000W over short distances, and even a lawnmower engine generates more than that, so that puts you on a good start.

Of course, If you really do plan on riding it to Geneva, you may want to make something a little more comfortable, but that's your call.

First thing that caught my eye was that they nearly all use solid wheels instead of wired wheels.

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First thing that caught my eye was that they nearly all use solid wheels instead of wired wheels.

Interesting concept but it's too low, the thing is with a bike you've got to compromise a seating position whereby you can put your feet down when you stop. Its all nice and good having a cigar tube which you lay down in but this would never pass SVA tests and when you stop you'd topple over.

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There may be some inspiration here

These are 80mph human powered bicycles. As a cyclist, I can guess the riders are generating 1000W over short distances, and even a lawnmower engine generates more than that, so that puts you on a good start.

Of course, If you really do plan on riding it to Geneva, you may want to make something a little more comfortable, but that's your call.

First thing that caught my eye was that they nearly all use solid wheels instead of wired wheels.

I think a casual cyclist can put out about 150w sustained - commuting power, it is so much lower than peak pro cyclist type output. Electric bikes are good - can get up to about 1,000 mpg (iirc) (energy cost equivalent) (or about 1p a mile) with moderate cyclist assissted power - basically using the battery power to keep a half decent speed up on ascents.

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Interesting concept but it's too low, the thing is with a bike you've got to compromise a seating position whereby you can put your feet down when you stop. Its all nice and good having a cigar tube which you lay down in but this would never pass SVA tests and when you stop you'd topple over.

The third one, Virtual Rush, has little pop-out wheels to hold you up when you stop, but is still asking for trouble

This could be a more practical direction Windcheetah. No chance of falling over, and the layout already looks more comfortable, lending itself to luggage and/or engine bay.

I realise that you do not want a design as extreme as these, but there may be some ideas for you there.

Now, back to those solid wheels and something that may be useful to you - the rear wheels have a freehub built in (for freewheeling - more energy savings), and a cassette block that is designed to take a 10 speed gear cassette. This is true of all rear bicycle wheels except track wheels (no freehub) and single speed wheels (single rear cog - no cassettes).

You could make use of this by coupling an engine to these with a bike chain and control the gears with a bike derailleur

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Now, back to those solid wheels and something that may be useful to you - the rear wheels have a freehub built in (for freewheeling - more energy savings), and a cassette block that is designed to take a 10 speed gear cassette. This is true of all rear bicycle wheels except track wheels (no freehub) and single speed wheels (single rear cog - no cassettes).

You could make use of this by coupling an engine to these with a bike chain and control the gears with a bike derailleur

Nah can't put free hubs on motorbikes. The whole chain turns as well as the output sprocket on the engine. It's a big shock if you are at medium RPM clutch in and clutch out it grabs and stresses the chain.

Deraillieurs are impossible on motorbikes. The stresses are too high, your chain is going 1000rpm+ it comes off it'll take your legs off and punch a hole into an engine. a CG125 rider had his chain come off being too loose, it went into the lorry behind and wrote the entire vehicle off. His insurance policy went to the moon because of this.

The best solution we've found is double sided sprockets wherbey you weld two sprockets back to backwith 1.5cm between them using a third idler tensioner. Except this snapped output shafts and the bigger sprocket would catch the chain even with a single double cog on the back which would snap chains pretty quickly.

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