neil324 Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) Going to see a house tomorrow that in the words of the agent, 'you are aware it needs total modernisation'. It's on at £140K which is optimistic, the problem is it has a large rear garden because of it's position on the grove, so it's hard to quantify the value of the garden but obviously they are. The only other that has sold on the grove was £168K at peak, but there is the next road where a same style house sold for £130K recently, this being Birmingham also, thinking of an offer of £110K cash. Anyone think i have a chance Well ****** me, they purchased the property 24 Sep 2010 for £110K. Sell and rent back? Someone purchased it and decided not to do the work? Strange one that is. That's about £8K per month profit in a falling market Edited February 8, 2011 by neil324 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arrgee1991 Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Going to see a house tomorrow that in the words of the agent, 'you are aware it needs total modernisation'. It's on at £140K which is optimistic, the problem is it has a large rear garden because of it's position on the grove, so it's hard to quantify the value of the garden but obviously they are. The only other that has sold on the grove was £168K at peak, but there is the next road where a same style house sold for £130K recently, this being Birmingham also, thinking of an offer of £110K cash. Anyone think i have a chance It all depends. Are there other interested buyers? Is the vendor desparate to sell? Has it been up for sale for long? If you make the only offer in months and they have to sell, then you have every chance of having a low offer accepted. Start at £100K, you can always go up to £110K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil324 Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) It all depends. Are there other interested buyers? Is the vendor desparate to sell? Has it been up for sale for long? If you make the only offer in months and they have to sell, then you have every chance of having a low offer accepted. Start at £100K, you can always go up to £110K. Edited my post since you replied, the house has only been on the market 2 weeks. Can't comment on any offers, but i hope buyers check nethouseprices I've seen some mark ups in my time, not sure how to approach this now to get the most information from the agent. Edited February 8, 2011 by neil324 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibley's Love Child Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 No word from the OP then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybernoid Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Offer what it's worth to you. If the seller thinks they can get more for it there isn't a deal to be had. That's it. An eas opinions are utterly irrelevant, as are the vendors self importance or feelings. There's more properties than buyers, you'll have to find one you want where a vendors acceptable range and your offer coincide. If there aren't any, stay out of the Market. Done. Eas are worthless, they're not stumping up the cash, they're largely ignorant of anything other than hair gel brands, it's your deal, your money. Who cares what they think, it's not their deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will! Posted February 8, 2011 Author Share Posted February 8, 2011 Thank you for all your advice (and the wider exposure)! As luck would have it, the first flat on my list has just been listed with a second EA who doesn't have any other flats on their books I'm interested in, so I'm going to make my first "cheeky offer" through them. Cripes, were I in your position (i'm assuming by cash buyer, you have access to the above funds?) i'd be setting my sights a helluva lot higher than Camberwell; why there out of curiosity? I spent five long years in that god forsaken hell-hole so know SE15/SE17 very well. ... As someone else said (as per latest Hometrack report), vendors are - on average - only achieving 91.9% of asking price so there's definitely scope for negotiating - are any of these repos? S L C - This particular block of flats in Camberwell is just about the only place I've found with OK transport (on the tube or train and night bus) within my budget (which is ideally > 70 sq m for < £250k) that's not on a dodgy estate. You probably have more local knowledge than me so I'm most definitely open to suggestions. None of them are repos, although I think a couple of sales are driven by financial pressures. Cheers Will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver surfer Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Hi all I'm a first time cash buyer. I've been looking at flats in Camberwell, SE London, for the last 6 months. There are a number of flats available for around £300k and all are with the same EA. For obvious reasons I'd prefer not to pay more than £250k so I'm thinking about making serial "cheeky offers" to the vendors of the flats and seeing if anyone bites. My only concern is that as I'm offering quite a bit below asking price the EA may decide I'm a time waster and may not be keen to let me view any new flats that come on the market with them. Does anyone (especially EAs) have any views on how I should play this? Cheers Will I STR'd in 2005 and I've been making cash offers at 20-30% below asking since 2008. No success so far but I sense my time is soon! Yes, I've had one or two disdainful EA's (mostly they've acknowledged they're just scared of the vendor's reactions as they're obligated to put the offer forward) but by and large i'm still on civil terms with all the EA's in my target area, and have never been blocked from a viewing. Don't feel concerned about offering £250k on a £300k property, nothing awkward about that. But don't play d1ck head games like putting on an indignant HPC face and declaring you'll trim the offer by £5k a week. That's just playground antics. Instead explain you're able to move quickly, have cash or financing in place, make your offer, and then recognise it's the vendors right to choose to then accept or reject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swansea Estate Agent Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Edited my post since you replied, the house has only been on the market 2 weeks. Can't comment on any offers, but i hope buyers check nethouseprices I've seen some mark ups in my time, not sure how to approach this now to get the most information from the agent. Why not go in at 30% BMV? £98,000 Work on percentages rather than numbers if you see what I mean If they bought for £110k and have either not been able to raise money to do the work or changed their minds, then they will be happy to cut and run hoping to get away with not losing anything. If that is the case, then they may need about £113k after all fees. If you start low and bide your time, then they will be begging to get an offer close to the figure that clears them. You never know they may just take a bit of a hit and accept less than they paid. This all depends on their circumstances. Who knows, maybe they lost their jobs or similar. Personally I think somebody bought it to renovate with the intention of selling for profit and have now decided against it due to there being little or no profit to be gained and are hoping to make some quick money by expecting buyers to offer about 10-15% BMV. That would earn them cash and a buyer that does not do their homework will think they have got a bargain. I wonder what price it was on the market for when they bought it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrozenOut Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 This is a great thread, very informative in relation to handling agents and offers. Sticky ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swansea Estate Agent Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) Seriously 25-30% off true market value, thats massive, and how do you take it when they come out with that? How does it go down with the vendors? Presumably they are pretty difficult conversations! I take all offers seriously and respond with any decent argument to try and increase the offer. That is after all what I am paid to do, but sometimes you can not argue with an offer especially if the property is on the market at too high of a price. My problem is gaining instructions with my honesty opinion of the value. Most people choose to get numberous valuations and when there are large differences between agents it confuses vendors. Most of the properties we take on are properties that we value at something like £100k but the vendor wants to use us as long as we market at the price other EA's have valued. Generally 15% above our recommendation. In times like these it's hard to turn business away and I have done on many occassions, but now I just take what I can while telling the vendor it is over priced and work hard at getting them to reduce over time. Low offers do help with that just as much as repo's going on the same street. 'Edit' Forgot to add about telling the vendor. This is just like any offer. I have to tell them, so I can't hide from it. If they start to shout and get angry which usually happens and I know there will be no use trying to talk them into accepting even if it is close to what I believe it is worth, then I just explain that I had to tell them of the offer and explain why the buyer had decided on the figure. Sometimes you can then pretty much talk them in to considering a price that they would accept if the buyer would negotiate. I would usually try to get a final offer on the second go from the buyer at this point. Why waste time negotiating in small increments and find out ASAP if there is a deal to be done. It's always worth leaving an offer on the table for a period of time. No less than 2 weeks and no more than a month. A vendor will usually ask you to call any other viewings previously to see if they are interested now that an offer is on the table. Obviously hoping they can get a bidding war started. Any buyer with sense will walk away from any sign of this and who would blame them. Edited February 8, 2011 by SwanseaPropertyAgents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvadealme Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Why not go in at 30% BMV? £98,000 Work on percentages rather than numbers if you see what I mean If they bought for £110k and have either not been able to raise money to do the work or changed their minds, then they will be happy to cut and run hoping to get away with not losing anything. If that is the case, then they may need about £113k after all fees. If you start low and bide your time, then they will be begging to get an offer close to the figure that clears them. You never know they may just take a bit of a hit and accept less than they paid. This all depends on their circumstances. Who knows, maybe they lost their jobs or similar. Personally I think somebody bought it to renovate with the intention of selling for profit and have now decided against it due to there being little or no profit to be gained and are hoping to make some quick money by expecting buyers to offer about 10-15% BMV. That would earn them cash and a buyer that does not do their homework will think they have got a bargain. I wonder what price it was on the market for when they bought it! Depending on when it was sold, a friendly EA (or someone with a login, like me) could check rightmoveplus and see what it was marketed at if you supplied address, postcode and sold date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil324 Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Why not go in at 30% BMV? £98,000 Work on percentages rather than numbers if you see what I mean If they bought for £110k and have either not been able to raise money to do the work or changed their minds, then they will be happy to cut and run hoping to get away with not losing anything. If that is the case, then they may need about £113k after all fees. If you start low and bide your time, then they will be begging to get an offer close to the figure that clears them. You never know they may just take a bit of a hit and accept less than they paid. This all depends on their circumstances. Who knows, maybe they lost their jobs or similar. Personally I think somebody bought it to renovate with the intention of selling for profit and have now decided against it due to there being little or no profit to be gained and are hoping to make some quick money by expecting buyers to offer about 10-15% BMV. That would earn them cash and a buyer that does not do their homework will think they have got a bargain. I wonder what price it was on the market for when they bought it! It must have been marketed last summer at the peak of the bounce, not worth that now is it, that's not saying they won't get someone to pay more for it. Think i will be candid with the agent and see what he says. Won't be making an offer though unless he lets slip they are desperate and certainly won't be paying £110K. I think they will wait and see what offers come in anyway. It would help to know if they purchased cash, they could have got a mortgage last summer as it was easier then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil324 Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) Depending on when it was sold, a friendly EA (or someone with a login, like me) could check rightmoveplus and see what it was marketed at if you supplied address, postcode and sold date. Just tried to pm you. But can't, maybe it's disabled for me. Edited February 8, 2011 by neil324 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibley's Love Child Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Thank you for all your advice (and the wider exposure)! As luck would have it, the first flat on my list has just been listed with a second EA who doesn't have any other flats on their books I'm interested in, so I'm going to make my first "cheeky offer" through them. S L C - This particular block of flats in Camberwell is just about the only place I've found with OK transport (on the tube or train and night bus) within my budget (which is ideally > 70 sq m for < £250k) that's not on a dodgy estate. You probably have more local knowledge than me so I'm most definitely open to suggestions. None of them are repos, although I think a couple of sales are driven by financial pressures. Cheers Will Fair enough, it sounds like you know what you want and have done your research. I'm presuming that you work in central London and that Camberwell is the closest/most convenient location within your price bracket? It's not for me to say don't do it. I guess were I in your position i'd be looking further out (where, who knows) but probably requiring to supplement that admittedly envious fund with a small mortgage. Nonetheless, good luck and I hope one of those suckers bite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil324 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 (edited) Well viewed it today, seen loads of auction properties in my time but this is by far the worse state, all obscure windows a money pit. Train line runs past back garden, phone mast visible as you approach front door on the other side of the train track. A comparable house sold at auction last Sep same area, valued same price at peak when done up, less money to spend on it went for £77K. Asked the agent today he said the guy buys BMV properties and this was on with Paul Carr so he bought it for 85% of the market value but his builders can't get around to doing the work but later said he has loads but has no cash and has to sell some. Good luck. Edited February 9, 2011 by neil324 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southeast Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I take all offers seriously and respond with any decent argument to try and increase the offer. That is after all what I am paid to do, but sometimes you can not argue with an offer especially if the property is on the market at too high of a price. My problem is gaining instructions with my honesty opinion of the value. Most people choose to get numberous valuations and when there are large differences between agents it confuses vendors. Most of the properties we take on are properties that we value at something like £100k but the vendor wants to use us as long as we market at the price other EA's have valued. Generally 15% above our recommendation. In times like these it's hard to turn business away and I have done on many occassions, but now I just take what I can while telling the vendor it is over priced and work hard at getting them to reduce over time. Low offers do help with that just as much as repo's going on the same street. 'Edit' Forgot to add about telling the vendor. This is just like any offer. I have to tell them, so I can't hide from it. If they start to shout and get angry which usually happens and I know there will be no use trying to talk them into accepting even if it is close to what I believe it is worth, then I just explain that I had to tell them of the offer and explain why the buyer had decided on the figure. Sometimes you can then pretty much talk them in to considering a price that they would accept if the buyer would negotiate. I would usually try to get a final offer on the second go from the buyer at this point. Why waste time negotiating in small increments and find out ASAP if there is a deal to be done. It's always worth leaving an offer on the table for a period of time. No less than 2 weeks and no more than a month. A vendor will usually ask you to call any other viewings previously to see if they are interested now that an offer is on the table. Obviously hoping they can get a bidding war started. Any buyer with sense will walk away from any sign of this and who would blame them. Thanks for the reply... Re: other agents overvaluing, its pretty widespread here, I have seen so many properties reduced by 100 to 200k, not because they have really discounted them, but just stupidly overpriced to start with. Even some of the sensible agents are getting into it round here in the last month. The trouble is you have to watch a property for so long just to see what it settles at. The delay getting land reg data is also a tad annoying as it takes so long to find out what it relly went for. Its good to hear that even the low offers are taken seriously though. I know its all relative to the vendor and their circumstances, but what sort of % do you think its worth for a chain free buyer with certified funds in place cash/mortgage (on average/in your opinion etc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swansea Estate Agent Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Thanks for the reply... Re: other agents overvaluing, its pretty widespread here, I have seen so many properties reduced by 100 to 200k, not because they have really discounted them, but just stupidly overpriced to start with. Even some of the sensible agents are getting into it round here in the last month. The trouble is you have to watch a property for so long just to see what it settles at. The delay getting land reg data is also a tad annoying as it takes so long to find out what it relly went for. Its good to hear that even the low offers are taken seriously though. I know its all relative to the vendor and their circumstances, but what sort of % do you think its worth for a chain free buyer with certified funds in place cash/mortgage (on average/in your opinion etc). You need to offer a price that you feel the property is worth. Or rather offer a price below the figure that you are prepared to pay to give some room for negotiating or increasing to a final offer. I could not give a % to be honest because each property is different and vendors circumstances are different. Just do some homework on websites that show recent sale prices for similar property nearby to give you an idea of what the average is, then look at the condition of the property and put in an offer of what you believe it is worth. Either that or do what an investor would. Decide on a percentage and place that offer on all properties that are of interest. You only need one bite which is either an acceptance or a willingness to negotiate further. Don't be afraid to start low if you are prepared to negotiate, but know your limit. You may lose a property or two that you really wanted, but you will get one that is at the right price which seems to be the important thing for you at this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will! Posted February 19, 2011 Author Share Posted February 19, 2011 Strike one. Flat on for £299k since August 2010. Went 'under offer' for a month in October. I offer £245k. EA says vendor is looking for closer to the asking price and, more surprisingly, that they're going to have a new kitchen fitted and then re-list at around £320k. By way of background, I happen to know this block has asbestos lagging in the centralised heating and hot water system which is due to be removed in the next couple of years, along with the replacement of the centralised system with individual boilers for the flats. The amount of disruption this is likely to cause is unclear, but installing a new kitchen immediately before it happens seems a bit strange. Oh well, ever onward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southeast Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 (edited) Made a couple of offers now, both fairly low against the asking price, but both IMO quite reasonable versus 2007 prices (i.e. pretty much what I believe the 2007 price would have been for the property)....of course both have been rejected! Personally I dont think even the best stuff is worth over 20% above 2007 prices......but many are asking it! So its back to keeping a close eye on the market for the forseeable future EDIT: Both agents very polite and pretty much agreed with the approch, so not antagonised at all Edited February 23, 2011 by southeast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will! Posted March 17, 2011 Author Share Posted March 17, 2011 Strikes two, three and four. 3 bed flat on for £305k since June 2010. Reduced to £295k in Jan 2011, so possibly a vendor with some motivation to sell. I offer £245k. Declined by vendor and goes 'under offer' shortly after. 3 bed flat on for £299k since September 2010. I offer £245k. Declined by vendor and goes 'under offer' shortly after. 3 bed flat just put on for £295k. I offer £245k. Declined by vendor and goes 'under offer' one week after listing. I think it was Einstein who said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. I'm now looking at two bedroom flats. These are a bit smaller than I'd really like (60 sq m) but should fall within my price range. The problem is they're all listed with the EA that I've been making the above offers through, who now knows the maximum price I can pay and will doubtless use this when I start making 'cheeky offers' on the 2 bed flats. I'm open to suggestions! Cheers Will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swansea Estate Agent Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 They may know that you can afford more, but they should also realise that you are not willing to pay the asking price which is natural. Just go in and make the offer or have a chat with the EA first to explain your motivation. At least they will know where you are coming from and may be able to find you some properties where the vendor might accept your offers. I find it odd that all the flats you have offered on are now advertised as under offer. Big coincidence unless they are all new to the market. Either that or your offers have pushed those that have shown an interest earlier into making firm offers. We had somebody at the start of the year come in to our office and say that they were only willing to spend 50k on a property and our lowest priced property was 70k. They put an offer of £50k in on a dozen properties. All bar one was rejected. At the end of the day the buyer got a property at a price that they were willing to pay. I asume they would have pulled out of others if more than one offer was accepted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismar Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) Strikes two, three and four. 3 bed flat on for £305k since June 2010. Reduced to £295k in Jan 2011, so possibly a vendor with some motivation to sell. I offer £245k. Declined by vendor and goes 'under offer' shortly after. 3 bed flat on for £299k since September 2010. I offer £245k. Declined by vendor and goes 'under offer' shortly after. 3 bed flat just put on for £295k. I offer £245k. Declined by vendor and goes 'under offer' one week after listing. I think it was Einstein who said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. I'm now looking at two bedroom flats. These are a bit smaller than I'd really like (60 sq m) but should fall within my price range. The problem is they're all listed with the EA that I've been making the above offers through, who now knows the maximum price I can pay and will doubtless use this when I start making 'cheeky offers' on the 2 bed flats. I'm open to suggestions! Cheers Will I can totally understand your frustration. We too have made offers on places that have been on market for over 12 months. Our final offers were within 10%-12% of asking prices, and on a par with what they were bought for back in 2007 time. Miraculously everything we too offered on went under offer or STC days after we made offers. Likewise we feel frustrated that the agents know our ceiling and are holding us to it for any other properties we now look at, despite us commenting on the condition of others and work needed and the prices paid (mostly back in 2006/7) - ie the latest we have seen needs work such as replacing a kitchen despite being only 9 years old, and the sale we feel on that needs to be under the 2007 sale price to allow us to do that and get it back to a fair standard. The other problem we have is that all the agents in our town know the property we previously owned and what we bought/sold that for... yet we have had to remind one particular agent (who reminded us of what we sold for) of how market has changed since we sold that (sale agreed Nov 2009/completed Jan 2010); and they all sit there in their offices and try to dismiss us when we respond with their "this property is worth more, it is worth xxxxx". What we sold for is not really totally relevant it is what we are prepared to pay and what they are willing to try and get their vendor to see reality at in the current market. We also are getting frustrated. Edited March 17, 2011 by chrismar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will! Posted March 17, 2011 Author Share Posted March 17, 2011 It does seem notable that all three flats went 'under offer' shortly after I made my offer. I suspect that there are a few people interested in these flats who are like me (think the market is overpriced, have been saving up while waiting for it to correct and aren't seriously affected by mortgage availability) and I've flushed them out. I have one more three bed to view and make an offer on, then next is a two bed on for £210k since June 2010. I plan on offering £180k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swansea Estate Agent Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I would offer £175k personally with a view to increasing to £180k as a final take it or leave it offer. Maybe the EA's just altered the advertising to 'Under Offer' when you made the offers and plan to leave it like that for a little while in a bid to show that they are getting offers to gain more instructions or to tempt other buyers to look at making higher offers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mildura Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Maybe the EA's just altered the advertising to 'Under Offer' when you made the offers and plan to leave it like that for a little while in a bid to show that they are getting offers to gain more instructions or to tempt other buyers to look at making higher offers. Do some agents really do that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.