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Realistbear

Importing Foreign Culture Has Failed - Dave

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/david-cameron/8305346/Muslims-must-embrace-our-British-values-David-Cameron-says.html

Muslims must embrace our British values, David Cameron says
British Muslims must subscribe to mainstream values of freedom and equality, David Cameron will say as he declares that the doctrine of multiculturalism has “failed” and will be abandoned.

Top secret wiki leak:

Our intelligence reports are flashing red on social unrest with a number of violent deminstrations being planned this summer. There are a significant number of people ready to take to the streets over some core issues that people feel are not being taken seriously by you or the coalition. The sense of outrage over bankers bonuses at a time when you are asking people to share in the pain of austerity should not be understimated. The sense of anger felt by local council tax papyers over large fines for using the wrong bin while chief council workers take home in excess of £200 thousand a year is extremely dangerous. People are feeling like immigrants in their own country due to the perception that their country is being overtaken by people they cannot even converse with because of language barriers. They see elitist groups like the CBI telling you that they want more foreigners to be allowed in to maximize their profits while they do not give a damn about the social consequences felt in our schools, hospitals and overstretched social services. Then there is a almost universally felt fear of terrorism and the attitude, right of wrong--it makes no difference as the perception is there, that every Moslem is a potential threat with an agenda to take over their country within a generation or two. People believe your agenda no longer aligns with the general will of the country and it is fostering rebellion--and it could begin in a few months time unless you start making some real changes. The "Big Society" is dead because it was not embraced by the people who saw it as your thing to appease them and give them a Blitz spirit while you and your elitist friends shared in the cream off the top. You have badly underestimate the people of this nation and you need to wake up to the fact that the level of anger is about to explode onto our streets like it is in Egypt and elsewhere.

Fictitious--sure--but it isprobably not far from the truth

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Many do.... its just that the outsiders shout the loudest and get heard more than the normal people.

Also fitting in an embracing. Is not ideal.... as the person may try but may well find society does not want them back in any shape or form.

Hell I only need to look around my own wider family circle to see evidence of this. Casual racism is completely accepted in society.

Secondly why would people want to be part of what appears to be British culture? Some of it is aborhent. Friday nights? Go out get drunk, get into a fist fight get more drunk have kebabs, pull somebody due to beer goggles puke, have unprotected sex catch an STI, father a B'stard. Then spend all sunday recovering....

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/david-cameron/8305346/Muslims-must-embrace-our-British-values-David-Cameron-says.html

Muslims must embrace our British values, David Cameron says
British Muslims must subscribe to mainstream values of freedom and equality, David Cameron will say as he declares that the doctrine of multiculturalism has “failed” and will be abandoned.

Top secret wiki leak:

Our intelligence reports are flashing red on social unrest with a number of violent deminstrations being planned this summer. There are a significant number of people ready to take to the streets over some core issues that people feel are not being taken seriously by you or the coalition. The sense of outrage over bankers bonuses at a time when you are asking people to share in the pain of austerity should not be understimated. The sense of anger felt by local council tax papyers over large fines for using the wrong bin while chief council workers take home in excess of £200 thousand a year is extremely dangerous. People are feeling like immigrants in their own country due to the perception that their country is being overtaken by people they cannot even converse with because of language barriers. They see elitist groups like the CBI telling you that they want more foreigners to be allowed in to maximize their profits while they do not give a damn about the social consequences felt in our schools, hospitals and overstretched social services. Then there is a almost universally felt fear of terrorism and the attitude, right of wrong--it makes no difference as the perception is there, that every Moslem is a potential threat with an agenda to take over their country within a generation or two. People believe your agenda no longer aligns with the general will of the country and it is fostering rebellion--and it could begin in a few months time unless you start making some real changes. The "Big Society" is dead because it was not embraced by the people who saw it as your thing to appease them and give them a Blitz spirit while you and your elitist friends shared in the cream off the top. You have badly underestimate the people of this nation and you need to wake up to the fact that the level of anger is about to explode onto our streets like it is in Egypt and elsewhere.

Fictitious--sure--but it isprobably not far from the truth

Egypt 80 million people. Tens of thousands riot.

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmm

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Many do.... its just that the outsiders shout the loudest and get heard more than the normal people.

Also fitting in an embracing. Is not ideal.... as the person may try but may well find society does not want them back in any shape or form.

Hell I only need to look around my own wider family circle to see evidence of this. Casual racism is completely accepted in society.

Secondly why would people want to be part of what appears to be British culture? Some of it is aborhent. Friday nights? Go out get drunk, get into a fist fight get more drunk have kebabs, pull somebody due to beer goggles puke, have unprotected sex catch an STI, father a B'stard. Then spend all sunday recovering....

I agree this is British Culture. But why is it that way? A symptom of a deeper sickness.

Some crucial core values have gone and there needs to be a re-identifying of what those are and then follow them. The problem is that multicuralism has made that far more difficult as it may no longer be possible to find a consensus. We may, as a nation, simply decline into a hostile and deeply divide ghetto of a nation where entitlement and social diversity are the norm.

Whatever Dave is seeing I think he and his predecessors are too late.

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Many do.... its just that the outsiders shout the loudest and get heard more than the normal people.

+ 1

Actually most do.

Also fitting in an embracing. Is not ideal.... as the person may try but may well find society does not want them back in any shape or form.

Hell I only need to look around my own wider family circle to see evidence of this. Casual racism is completely accepted in society.

+ 1

Secondly why would people want to be part of what appears to be British culture? Some of it is aborhent. Friday nights? Go out get drunk, get into a fist fight get more drunk have kebabs, pull somebody due to beer goggles puke, have unprotected sex catch an STI, father a B'stard. Then spend all sunday recovering....

Good point. The opportunity of mixing cultures is to get the best of both sides.

America is a good example. In a way it is a mix of Germans engineers with British liberal values.

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Secondly why would people want to be part of what appears to be British culture? Some of it is aborhent. Friday nights? Go out get drunk, get into a fist fight get more drunk have kebabs, pull somebody due to beer goggles puke, have unprotected sex catch an STI, father a B'stard. Then spend all sunday recovering....

Ken, would you please repeat your point about casual racism, this time in a deliberately ironic tone of voice?

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+ 1

Actually most do.

+ 1

Good point. The opportunity of mixing cultures is to get the best of both sides.

America is a good example. In a way it is a mix of Germans engineers with British liberal values.

Good summation. It is because of their success in this regard that people dislike the US so much.

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Good point. The opportunity of mixing cultures is to get the best of both sides.

America is a good example. In a way it is a mix of Germans engineers with British liberal values.

Good point. The huge black and muslim ghettos of Birmingham and similiar places need to be broken up and the residents dispersed around the country. The ratio in any square kilometre should never be allowed to exceed the national ratio. We can then mix the cultures to get the best from both sides.

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Ken, would you please repeat your point about casual racism, this time in a deliberately ironic tone of voice?

You live in Lancashire, lets meet in Manchester city centre tonight for every instance of the above you and I see you pay me £1. Bring some gold sovs it will be a very expensive night. For you.

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My experience of working/traveling/doing business with ethnic Chinese in the UK is of a very insular, introspective, fiercely culturally-protective, unwillingness-to-mix group. They don't want to mix, and I've observed it's especially so with South Asians whom they despise.

Sorry Ken, just my experience.

I've written about this a few times myself, and you are mostly correct.

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Good point. The huge black and muslim ghettos of Birmingham and similiar places need to be broken up and the residents dispersed around the country. The ratio in any square kilometre should never be allowed to exceed the national ratio. We can then mix the cultures to get the best from both sides.

They tried this in Columbia, Maryland. Dismall failure as people still ghetto-ised with like hanging with like.

They also had a go in Moulscombe Estate in Brighton--imported a load of troubled familes from London thinking they would disperse and soak in Sussex values (whatever those are). Moulscombe Estate is still an Island unto itself where they burn cars for fun on occasion. More criminal law firms in Brighton per capita than any other City in England!

People need to change from within. Tall order IMO.

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Hey, I like my lifestyle! :lol::lol::lol:

Was gonna say the same !! half of that sounds cracking. The other half not so great.

I agree this is British Culture. But why is it that way? A symptom of a deeper sickness.

Some crucial core values have gone and there needs to be a re-identifying of what those are and then follow them. The problem is that multicuralism has made that far more difficult as it may no longer be possible to find a consensus. We may, as a nation, simply decline into a hostile and deeply divide ghetto of a nation where entitlement and social diversity are the norm.

Whatever Dave is seeing I think he and his predecessors are too late.

There was an interesting programme on CH4 I think - a few years ago about our culture of binge drinking in this country. It basically took old books/poems/plays/notes/news stories etc... going back centuries and re-enacted them in a 'modern' style.

Was very interesting. And the jist of the summary was this: Us Brits have been this way for a long long time !! This whole 'binge drinking + fighting culture' is no new thing. I think people just like to look back with rose tinted glasses on.

When my dad was growing up in Edinburgh in the 60's the big worry for youngsters was the razor gangs. Would go around and slice people's faces for fun.Nice eh ? However you talk to people about the 60's in general ? Oh yes such a great time + flower power + didn't everyone love each other blah blah.

We tend to remember the good things and so therefore past times always are noted down as being nicer than the present. human nature.

Maybe it is worse today ? Then again maybe not.

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Was gonna say the same !! half of that sounds cracking. The other half not so great.

There was an interesting programme on CH4 I think - a few years ago about our culture of binge drinking in this country. It basically took old books/poems/plays/notes/news stories etc... going back centuries and re-enacted them in a 'modern' style.

It was called the 7 sins of england. It said bing drinking, bigotry, slaggishness, greed, violence and a couple of others (might have been rabid consumerism, hooliganism,) where long deep ingrained parts of British culture and were not a modern thing.

part 1 is here

http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/category/entertainment/watch/v15275939jRXE2EBp

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Was gonna say the same !! half of that sounds cracking. The other half not so great.

There was an interesting programme on CH4 I think - a few years ago about our culture of binge drinking in this country. It basically took old books/poems/plays/notes/news stories etc... going back centuries and re-enacted them in a 'modern' style.

Was very interesting. And the jist of the summary was this: Us Brits have been this way for a long long time !! This whole 'binge drinking + fighting culture' is no new thing. I think people just like to look back with rose tinted glasses on.

When my dad was growing up in Edinburgh in the 60's the big worry for youngsters was the razor gangs. Would go around and slice people's faces for fun.Nice eh ? However you talk to people about the 60's in general ? Oh yes such a great time + flower power + didn't everyone love each other blah blah.

We tend to remember the good things and so therefore past times always are noted down as being nicer than the present. human nature.

Maybe it is worse today ? Then again maybe not.

There is some truth in this. However, it has become worse as a "foreign" element has been added to the mix and most of it is not benevolent.

THe UK has a very long history of violence among its peoples. Even the Romans dare not tread into Billy Conolly land for fear of a Glaswegian hello! The Saxons were violated by the Normans and the Norsemen violated whoever got in their way as they landed in their viking ships. Funny how we regard the US as having a violent history compared with ours! I think we just imported our violence over there where we carried on the same thing with the indigenous. The only thing that has restraied the US from becoming a binge drinking ghetto is the benevolent influx of other European cultures.

Anyone watch that deeply insightful film Gangs of NY? The filter through which peoples were passed was a violent ghetto called New York. Must have had a deep impact on people coming through that route.

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Was gonna say the same !! half of that sounds cracking. The other half not so great.

There was an interesting programme on CH4 I think - a few years ago about our culture of binge drinking in this country. It basically took old books/poems/plays/notes/news stories etc... going back centuries and re-enacted them in a 'modern' style.

Was very interesting. And the jist of the summary was this: Us Brits have been this way for a long long time !! This whole 'binge drinking + fighting culture' is no new thing. I think people just like to look back with rose tinted glasses on.

When my dad was growing up in Edinburgh in the 60's the big worry for youngsters was the razor gangs. Would go around and slice people's faces for fun.Nice eh ? However you talk to people about the 60's in general ? Oh yes such a great time + flower power + didn't everyone love each other blah blah.

We tend to remember the good things and so therefore past times always are noted down as being nicer than the present. human nature.

Maybe it is worse today ? Then again maybe not.

Goes back further than that to Viking/Saxon/Angle times. They loved a good fight and then got drunk at every oppourtunity. Then there is the fact that in these times up until around the 1700's beer was the main drink even for children because ii was a way of purifying the water. The children's beer was called small beer.

We basically have 2000 years of beer drinking and fighting inbred into our genes.

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I agree this is British Culture. But why is it that way? A symptom of a deeper sickness.

Some crucial core values have gone and there needs to be a re-identifying of what those are and then follow them. The problem is that multicuralism has made that far more difficult as it may no longer be possible to find a consensus. We may, as a nation, simply decline into a hostile and deeply divide ghetto of a nation where entitlement and social diversity are the norm.

Whatever Dave is seeing I think he and his predecessors are too late.

The thing that has changed is basically that we have concentrated it into city centres. In days gone by people used to go down the local or the working mans club and gets as plastered as they did now. But they used to stay in one or maybe 2 locations. whereas now mass groups of drunks moving around the streets and also there was not the plethora of fast food joints so people used to go home.

There was a trial before 24 hour drinking was introduced where they staggered the closing times of pubs every half hour until 2am. Some shut at 11pm, some at 11:30pm etc and the ones that were open were not allowed to let additional people in, just let people out. The violence and disorder went down dramatically because there were far less people on the streets so queues for taxis fast food were non existent so less trouble.

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http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-02-05/cameron-says-europe-must-wake-up-to-homegrown-islamist-radicals.html

Cameron Says Europeans Must Wake Up to Homegrown Islamist Radical Threat
By Thomas "Tom" Penny - Feb 5, 2011 12:01 AM GMT
U.K. Prime Minister David Cameron will today call on European leaders to “wake up” to the radicalization of young Muslims in their own countries and tackle extremist ideology at home with “muscular liberalism.”
Cameron will tell the Munich Security Conference
that governments should abandon multiculturalism and the tolerance of “unacceptable views and practices” within their societies and promote the benefits of western values, according to a text of the speech released by his office. Instead, governments should aim for “a clear sense of shared national identity.”

Ahh, Munich that casts the mind back to some rallies that had some unpleasant consequences. He better not get the wrong sorts too excited or a movement might start. We need a liberal-democratic revolution not the other sort. :o

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My experience of working/traveling/doing business with ethnic Chinese in the UK is of a very insular, introspective, fiercely culturally-protective, unwillingness-to-mix group. They don't want to mix, and I've observed it's especially so with South Asians whom they despise.

Sorry Ken, just my experience.

The easiest way i find to wind up colleagues from India is to tell them how good things are in China these days :lol: Its normally followed by a mouthful of abuse :P

Its going to be interesting to see how this one plays out over the coming decade or so as they dont like each other thats for sure especially as they are competing for the same resources

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"Let's properly judge these organisations: Do they believe in universal human rights - including for women and people of other faiths? Do they believe in equality of all before the law? Do they believe in democracy and the right of people to elect their own government? Do they encourage integration or separatism?

"These are the sorts of questions we need to ask. Fail these tests and the presumption should be not to engage with organisations," Cameron added.

It's true. We have a national network of mini Mubaraks who keep their own communities poor, ignorant and voiceless so they can grow fat on skimming State hand-outs. It's high time the likes of Baroness Uddin were ousted and our more isolated communities given real opportunities to better themselves. Integration would increase as a result and it would save us a fortune too. We're not going to improve the situation by handing out peerages. At lease the Coalition realise this.

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You live in Lancashire, lets meet in Manchester city centre tonight for every instance of the above you and I see you pay me £1. Bring some gold sovs it will be a very expensive night. For you.

It goes without saying that if you go somewhere where all the p155heads go out to get p155ed, you will see a lot of p155ed people. You appear to have tarred all 55 million ehtnic Britons with the same brush on the strength of that. I know a white British person who never drinks and I know another one who does drink but doesn't like kebabs or throwing up, so your assertion must be false.

If I pay you £1 for every ethnic Briton who gets drunk tonight, and you pay me £1 for each one who does not, who's going to be out of pocket?

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It's a surprsingly bold move by Cameron. I don't think much of the guy but he has identified an issue we really need to debate in this country. Over the years not many things have made me prouder as a Briton than the extraordinary levels of acceptance and tolerance in this country. We are very lucky. Cameron does make a key point about inclusiveness - he's not looking for us to have a single homogenous culture just something that brings people on the fringes more into the mainstream. The trick is to celebrate the diverse cultures in this country while achieving a greater degree of social and economic inclusion.

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It's a surprsingly bold move by Cameron. I don't think much of the guy but he has identified an issue we really need to debate in this country. Over the years not many things have made me prouder as a Briton than the extraordinary levels of acceptance and tolerance in this country. We are very lucky. Cameron does make a key point about inclusiveness - he's not looking for us to have a single homogenous culture just something that brings people on the fringes more into the mainstream. The trick is to celebrate the diverse cultures in this country while achieving a greater degree of social and economic inclusion.

United (unity) we stand and divided (diverse) we fall.

The only way the Romans were able to hold such diversity together was through the legions.

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  • 312 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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