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TomSellek

Could The Gov Seize All Pension Funds?

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"Economy Minister Gyorgy Matolcsy announced the policy yesterday, escalating a government drive to bring 3 trillion forint ($14.6 billion) of privately managed pension assets under state control to reduce the budget deficit and public debt. Workers who opt against returning to the state system stand to lose 70 percent of their pension claim.

“This is effectively a nationalization of private pension funds,” David Nemeth, an economist at ING Groep NV in Budapest, said in a phone interview. “It’s the nightmare scenario.”

My question is could this happen here?

I mean they absorbed all the bad banks losses (intot he future) without a flying f3ck about the electorate

What happens if they can't keep up the repayments on the mega debt?

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Erm they already are seizing pension fund values.... by virtue of inflation...

It was strange in the office today, people talking about their pension funds, they had to live to 145+ to get the nominal money back they paid into their pension funds.

To get back the PP of the money their paid in they would have to be immortal to get it back.

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And if when they can't pay?

Magic printing press time, with 3trillion of UK pension funds, covering that with QE2 should be a doddle. Nominal pensions will still be paid but bread will only be buyable with gold.

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"Could The Gov Seize All Pension Funds?"

The govt can do whatever it wants. Think about it. Whatever it wants.

indeed, have discussed this with a few people and we came to the conclusion that in a worst case scenario of imminent state default that in all likeliness a tory govt probably wouldnt but that a Labour govt almost certainly would.

i see the fact that qrops was introduced in 2006 as quite ominous really

Edited by Tamara De Lempicka

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"Could The Gov Seize All Pension Funds?"

The govt can do whatever it wants. Think about it. Whatever it wants.

Yep - including conscripting you into the forces and "volunteering" you to face certain death.

Of course, if you're lucky, like my brother who flew in Halifaxes, you have a fifty percent chance of surviving.

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"Could The Gov Seize All Pension Funds?"

The govt can do whatever it wants. Think about it. Whatever it wants.

As can the people - whom the government is merely meant to serve.

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"Could The Gov Seize All Pension Funds?"

The govt can do whatever it wants. Think about it. Whatever it wants.

It is kinda like stealing, though, is it not? We should have a constitution or bill of rights to prevent such things.

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"Economy Minister Gyorgy Matolcsy announced the policy yesterday, escalating a government drive to bring 3 trillion forint ($14.6 billion) of privately managed pension assets under state control to reduce the budget deficit and public debt. Workers who opt against returning to the state system stand to lose 70 percent of their pension claim.

“This is effectively a nationalization of private pension funds,” David Nemeth, an economist at ING Groep NV in Budapest, said in a phone interview. “It’s the nightmare scenario.”

My question is could this happen here?

I mean they absorbed all the bad banks losses (intot he future) without a flying f3ck about the electorate

What happens if they can't keep up the repayments on the mega debt?

They will do it, but with a little more sophistication. In the US there/were plans to turn peoples 401ks into annuities:

Link and link

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indeed, have discussed this with a few people and we came to the conclusion that in a worst case scenario of imminent state default that in all likeliness a tory govt probably wouldnt but that a Labour govt almost certainly would.

i see the fact that qrops was introduced in 2006 as quite ominous really

You see this as a the elite setting up an escape route for their pensions? I'd like to think you were being overly cynical...

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It is kinda like stealing, though, is it not? We should have a constitution or bill of rights to prevent such things.

Ireland and the US have constitutions and bills of rights. Quite irrelevant to government abuse of fiscal powers.

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Interesting thread. Today we received notification that our pension fund trustees had approved the transfer of funds back to our employer on an ad-hoc basis as and when required. No consultation. They just agreed it. I thought it was the employer planning to raid the fund. Then I wondered if they are planning to protect us. Then I thought with it being a US company could the plan be to raid the fund, transfer it back to the states to help bail out the government there. We're not talking super dollars here - about £100m in the fund which sounds a lot but it's already about 50% under-funded.

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Just speaking to an ex work mate about this. We both have a very good pension in the company we worked for . Not counting the days but I can get my mits on it in 7 years 3 months and 21 days. Banking on the lump sum and monthly payout in order to be able to stop working at that point. Untill then it is a struggle and worrie earning much less than we did in that old job.

We both decided that if the pension is taken by the govenment rather than struggle along another 11 years untill the state pension we will be getting looked after for life at her majestys pleasure for the deed we inflict on the member or members of parliment who let this happen.

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Governments can choose to do what ever they like, but the reality is can they face the violent consequences. People won't take much more of this, the bankers have got away with the worlds biggest fraud yet its us that are left to pay the bill.

Jobs are being lost in both public and private sectors, and despite economic growth people are actually getter poorer and poorer. Growth is at the expense of people having to work long hours for very little and under poor terms.

The unemployed are being forced to work for a £1.00 an hour eventhough many of them have lost their jobs because of the banks withdrawl of money from our economy. Yet we are being brainwashed to think that all unemployed people are lazy and can't get out of bed. If I lost my job I'd be very pissed and wouldn't be making sure I got a bloody good holiday.

Education which was once free to all is now being packaged into expensive loans. Why on earth are people bothering.....people should simply not bother going to university and then watch this country collapse. Why should we pay so we can work.

I'm predicting massive riots by 2012, people will only take so much.

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Ireland and the US have constitutions and bills of rights. Quite irrelevant to government abuse of fiscal powers.

And we have the EU Constitution - agreed by all the country (or by Tony Blair and Gordon Brown on all of our behalf at least).

Has anyone read it by the way - we all signed it under Labour. I do hope there's a habeus corpus clause in there somewhere, and not just on the side of the convicts and scratters :angry:

Otherwise who would recognise it?

Edited by jammo

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They will do it, but with a little more sophistication. In the US there/were plans to turn peoples 401ks into annuities:

Link and link

Yes, or mandate that funds allocate a certain % of assets as government bonds. It would be interesting to see how the UK govt. would try to go about doing this after they tried to tie private fund payout increases to CPI.

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Yes, or mandate that funds allocate a certain % of assets as government bonds. It would be interesting to see how the UK govt. would try to go about doing this after they tried to tie private fund payout increases to CPI.

Tried?! They succeeded, at least for most schemes for the period between leaving and retirement!

It was strange in the office today, people talking about their pension funds, they had to live to 145+ to get the nominal money back they paid into their pension funds.

Is that true even net of tax though? As a higher rate taxpayer surely £100 in a pension scheme is still better than £40 in your pocket?

i see the fact that qrops was introduced in 2006 as quite ominous really

If you were planning to steal pension money, why would you introduce an escape route?

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If you were planning to steal pension money, why would you introduce an escape route?

if the escape route was likely to be taken up by 50% of the popn then theres a problem, but a take up of 1 or 2% is neither here nor there in the scheme of things. Who knows why it was introduced, it was simply an unusual thing to introduce at the time it was introduced.

I think if you look at it politically, and forecast the economic situation at the point of state default

the number of schemes that would be horribly underwater

the number of unfunded public schemes

the number of people with no or very little pension provision and relying on the state

i think should the situation arise, in the economic environment at such a time it would be a political no brainer and net popular

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We both decided that if the pension is taken by the govenment rather than struggle along another 11 years untill the state pension we will be getting looked after for life at her majestys pleasure for the deed we inflict on the member or members of parliment who let this happen.

Good post

I think a lot of people are thinking like that.

3 meals a day / free clothes and heating / t v / sky sports / gym / libary / workshops / further education / jobs /good medical care - ok so you may have to dodge bubba in the showers now and then, but now adays most prisons are holiday camps and are better places than living on some of our sink estates especially if you are a single impoverished pensioner with little or no money or support.

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Good post

I think a lot of people are thinking like that.

3 meals a day / free clothes and heating / t v / sky sports / gym / libary / workshops / further education / jobs /good medical care - ok so you may have to dodge bubba in the showers now and then, but now adays most prisons are holiday camps and are better places than living on some of our sink estates especially if you are a single impoverished pensioner with little or no money or support.

But what will they be like in a world where the government is so desperate it has confiscated pensions?

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Good post

I think a lot of people are thinking like that.

3 meals a day / free clothes and heating / t v / sky sports / gym / libary / workshops / further education / jobs /good medical care - ok so you may have to dodge bubba in the showers now and then, but now adays most prisons are holiday camps and are better places than living on some of our sink estates especially if you are a single impoverished pensioner with little or no money or support.

In a world where we are being told we face the biggest fall in our standard of living since the 20s and that children will have harder lives than their parents...

what makes you certain that prison will be a soft option :blink:

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Governments can choose to do what ever they like, but the reality is can they face the violent consequences. People won't take much more of this, the bankers have got away with the worlds biggest fraud yet its us that are left to pay the bill.

Jobs are being lost in both public and private sectors, and despite economic growth people are actually getter poorer and poorer. Growth is at the expense of people having to work long hours for very little and under poor terms.

The unemployed are being forced to work for a £1.00 an hour eventhough many of them have lost their jobs because of the banks withdrawl of money from our economy. Yet we are being brainwashed to think that all unemployed people are lazy and can't get out of bed. If I lost my job I'd be very pissed and wouldn't be making sure I got a bloody good holiday.

Education which was once free to all is now being packaged into expensive loans. Why on earth are people bothering.....people should simply not bother going to university and then watch this country collapse. Why should we pay so we can work.

I'm predicting massive riots by 2012, people will only take so much.

I really don't think the vast majority believe that.

Most of us are bright enough to know the difference between a] people who've lost jobs through no fault of their own and much prefer to be employed, and b] long-term shirkers who couldn't be a*sed to work even when there were plenty of jobs to be had.

Personally I know some of each and would never dream of lumping them together.

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  • 276 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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