Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

The Labour Party Left The Uk With £7.9 Trillion In Debt.


Milton

Recommended Posts

0
HOLA441
Coins are only representative too, although they can't get worth too much less on face value than in the metal because people start melting them down when that happens ("copper" coins since the early 90s will stick to magnets).

They( the coins) have,they do and I cannot see anything stopping them in the future.

As for the melting down, it is an indictable/prison offence. Do you feel lucky ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 263
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

1
HOLA442

How many people cash it? (...)

Same problem if the seller transferred the money electronically out of the bank.

You were right when you wrote "depositors", a few posts ago.

Banks can only lend money they have received as deposits earlier. They can lend most of it, 90% or more, depending on regulation. They only have to keep 10% or less.

Going with this 90% limit:

Banks can lend 9 times more money than what they hold in accounts.

But that does NOT mean that they can lend 9 times more that the total deposits they have received.

They can lend only 90% of this total.

THAT is the confusion you've been making for a long long time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2
HOLA443

Same problem if the seller transferred the money electronically out of the bank.

You were right when you wrote "depositors", a few posts ago.

Banks can only lend money they have received as deposits earlier. They can lend most of it, 90% or more, depending on regulation. They only have to keep 10% or less.

Going with this 90% limit:

Banks can lend 9 times more money than what they hold in accounts.

But that does NOT mean that they can lend 9 times more that the total deposits they have received.

They can lend only 90% of this total.

THAT is the confusion you've been making for a long long time.

No. Banks "lend", then that "lending" is used to create a deposit.

We don't have a FRB system, btw.

Bank has nothing. You ask to borrow £1,000

Bank puts your signed form onto the books as a £1,000 asset, then pays you for it. This is then used to either create a new deposit or add to existing deposits.

Like another poster said, I can't believe you don't know this given how long you have been on the forum.

Banks do not need any money to lend you some.

Edited by Injin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3
HOLA444

No. Banks "lend", then that "lending" is used to create a deposit.

We don't have a FRB system, btw.

Bank has nothing. You ask to borrow £1,000

Bank puts your signed form onto the books as a £1,000 asset, then pays you for it. This is then used to either create a new deposit or add to existing deposits.

Like another poster said, I can't believe you don't know this given how long you have been on the forum.

Banks do not need any money to lend you some.

You are wrong. Very very wrong.

You have to check your sources.

After that, your mental health. Sorry. but I mean it. You are not well.

That is not reality.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4
HOLA445

You are wrong. Very very wrong.

You have to check your sources.

After that, your mental health. Sorry. but I mean it. You are not well.

That is not reality.

If I am wrong, why is their exponential, unpayable debt?

A bank with absolutely no money on the premises can give you a mortgage.

Think about it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5
HOLA446

or you could actually look at bank b/sheet.

This particular example (page 7) shows £17.6bn in retail deposits (liabilities) balanced by £11.2bn of that £17.6bn short term deposits loaned out at various longer term maturities no doubt in the form of mortgages/loans to customers and a further $6bn or so loaned to the Bank of England.

Nowhere are there liabilities of only 0-10% of assets 'cause that would be silly. Obviously the 'assets' may not be 'worth' 100% of what they say they're worth, which is how we arrived at where we are in the first place! (plus all the secuitisation liquidity sloshing around from the far east looking for a yield in the US and subesquently relent to us here of course.

http://companyinfo.northernrock.co.uk/downloads/results/nrplc_half_year_results_2010.pdf

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6
HOLA447

If I am wrong, why is their there (FGS) exponential, unpayable debt?

Central banks can create money, and only central banks. In Britain this legal monopoly is held by the Bank of England.

A bank with absolutely no money on the premises can give you a mortgage.

No they can not!

(Or... Do you mean "on the premises" of that branch?! :unsure: )

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7
HOLA448

You are wrong. Very very wrong.

You have to check your sources.

After that, your mental health. Sorry. but I mean it. You are not well.

That is not reality.

And you dear friend, need to get your head out of the sand and learn a little.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8
HOLA449

Central banks can create money, and only central banks. In Britain this legal monopoly is held by the Bank of England.

No, anyone can create money and anyone can promise anything - only the bank of england can create legal tender.

No they can not!

(Or... Do you mean "on the premises" of that branch?! :unsure: )

Where the hell do you think the first pound came from?

Every day the banks routinely do more trade with each other than their is currency to actually do it.

Jesus.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9
HOLA4410
10
HOLA4411

or you could actually look at bank b/sheet.

This particular example (page 7) shows £17.6bn in retail deposits (liabilities) balanced by £11.2bn of that £17.6bn short term deposits loaned out at various longer term maturities no doubt in the form of mortgages/loans to customers and a further $6bn or so loaned to the Bank of England.

Nowhere are there liabilities of only 0-10% of assets 'cause that would be silly. Obviously the 'assets' may not be 'worth' 100% of what they say they're worth, which is how we arrived at where we are in the first place! (plus all the secuitisation liquidity sloshing around from the far east looking for a yield in the US and subesquently relent to us here of course.

http://companyinfo.n...esults_2010.pdf

yes, that cash and assets held at the central bank....I guess that is haircutted MBS in exchange for cash, as the loans to other banks dont reflect that value.

The balance sheet can mean whatever they want, depending on how they account for stuff....One could wonder how much of that cash asset at the CB is from the bad bank.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11
HOLA4412

While it can do that it never, ever has.

if all the money disappeared and all the debt, people would be free.

Rather awesome.

Yes it did create new money, when it QE'd 200 billion a couple of years ago.

As for your definition of free, it is somewhat different to mine. To me, freedom is the ability to make choice. Our freedom is often limited by our spending capacity, which is why money is so important. And money is vital to oil the wheels of the supply chains that bring us our food, goods and services. Without money, we couldnt have the amazing economies we have now. And without those economies, our choice of products would be pretty much limited to what was growing on the trees at that particular time of year. That isnt the sort of freedom I crave, you are welcome to it though.

Edited by leicestersq
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12
HOLA4413

Yes it did create new money, when it QE'd 200 billion a couple of years ago.

But that's not debt free money, is it?

As for your definition of free, it is somewhat different to mine. To me, freedom is the ability to make choice. Our freedom is often limited by our spending capacity, which is why money is so important. And money is vital to oil the wheels of the supply chains that bring us our food, goods and services. Without money, we couldnt have the amazing economies we have now. And without those economies, our choice of products would be pretty much limited to what was growing on the trees at that particular time of year. That isnt the sort of freedom I crave, you are welcome to it though.

My freedom is simply the freedom to not be attacked.

That's all.

If you want to be attacked, that's up to you but leave me the ****** alone, thanks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13
HOLA4414

No, anyone can create money

Wrong.

and anyone can promise anything

Correct.

- only the bank of england can create legal tender.

I wrote that, in the very quote you are replying to! :unsure:

Where the hell do you think the first pound came from?

From the historical equivalent of the BoE, some king. Irrelevant here.

Every day the banks routinely do more trade with each other than their THERE ( ! Jeezus Christ!) is currency to actually do it.

Jesus.

You mean paper currency?!

Of course!

Were you thinking about paper currency all along?! Or were you thinking that I was talking about paper currency??!!

Jeeezus!

Of course the velocity of circulation is important!

Remember MV = PQ ?

You know what that is, don't you? Right? Please tell me you have seen this before.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14
HOLA4415

Wrong.

Fine me the law forbidding you from creating money.

Correct.

I wrote that, in the very quote you are replying to! :unsure:

legal tender doesn't equal the totality of money.

From the historical equivalent of the BoE, some king. Irrelevant here.

You mean paper currency?!

Of course!

Were you thinking about paper currency all along?! Or were you thinking that I was talking about paper currency??!!

Jeeezus!

Of course the velocity of circulation is important!

Remember MV = PQ ?

You know what that is, don't you? Right? Please tell me you have seen this before.

I'm confused.

Only the BoE can make money, but there is something other than paper currency?

Hmmm?

If you get actually get these concepts, your head will be blown. One of the more fun conversations I've had on here recently, so I thank you for it. :)

p.s. it's impossible to spell anything incorrect. Grammar is balls too!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15
HOLA4416

No. Banks "lend", then that "lending" is used to create a deposit.

We don't have a FRB system, btw.

Bank has nothing. You ask to borrow £1,000

Bank puts your signed form onto the books as a £1,000 asset, then pays you for it. This is then used to either create a new deposit or add to existing deposits.

Like another poster said, I can't believe you don't know this given how long you have been on the forum.

Banks do not need any money to lend you some.

+1

Oh dear god we're not going over this again are we?

After being on this forum for so long, after all that's happened?!?

:huh:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16
HOLA4417

+1

Oh dear god we're not going over this again are we?

After being on this forum for so long, after all that's happened?!?

:huh:

Apparently it's not the fault of a crazy system of slight of hand tho that's been in existence for nearly a hundred years, it's all down to Gordon Brown.

:rolleyes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17
HOLA4418
18
HOLA4419

Try Googling M1 M2 M3 M4.

What about MV = PQ ? Never seen either?

Ok, so there are other forms of money?

But if only the BoE can make money, how can this be?

I'll answer your questions if you find me the law forbidding you from making money (not legal tender, money.) I imagine it's going to come as a shock to the makers of monopoly as well as myself when you do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19
HOLA4420

Apparently it's not the fault of a crazy system of slight of hand tho that's been in existence for nearly a hundred years, it's all down to Gordon Brown.

:rolleyes:

The Treasury plus the FSA and the BoE had at their disposal all the necessary tools to curb the credit bubble.

They could, should have curbed the mortgage market, via maximum LTV, or multiple of income, end of self certs, etc.

If you prefer a banking measure they could have reduced V by increasing banks' reserve requirements.

This credit bubble, that happened in this past decade mainly in Britain and America is not an "unavoidable phenomena" in the capitalist system. Competent monetary authorities can easily curb these bubbles, if they want to, or have the political backing to do so.

And that was the problem here. they had political opposition from No. 10, including the tampering with the inflation index in Dec 2003 (the removal of housing costs from the index, by Brown).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20
HOLA4421

The Treasury plus the FSA and the BoE had at their disposal all the necessary tools to curb the credit bubble.

They could, should have curbed the mortgage market, via maximum LTV, or multiple of income, end of self certs, etc.

If you prefer a banking measure they could have reduced V by increasing banks' reserve requirements.

This credit bubble, that happened in this past decade mainly in Britain and America is not an "unavoidable phenomena" in the capitalist system. Competent monetary authorities can easily curb these bubbles, if they want to, or have the political backing to do so.

And that was the problem here. they had political opposition from No. 10, including the tampering with the inflation index in Dec 2003 (the removal of housing costs from the index, by Brown).

:lol::lol::lol:

Please stop, I may die laughing.

Did you find the law that forbids people from making money yet?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21
HOLA4422

The Treasury plus the FSA and the BoE had at their disposal all the necessary tools to curb the credit bubble.

They could, should have curbed the mortgage market, via maximum LTV, or multiple of income, end of self certs, etc.

If you prefer a banking measure they could have reduced V by increasing banks' reserve requirements.

This credit bubble, that happened in this past decade mainly in Britain and America is not an "unavoidable phenomena" in the capitalist system. Competent monetary authorities can easily curb these bubbles, if they want to, or have the political backing to do so.

And that was the problem here. they had political opposition from No. 10, including the tampering with the inflation index in Dec 2003 (the removal of housing costs from the index, by Brown).

it was a credit bubble...not a money bubble.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22
HOLA4423

yes, that cash and assets held at the central bank....I guess that is haircutted MBS in exchange for cash, as the loans to other banks dont reflect that value.

The balance sheet can mean whatever they want, depending on how they account for stuff....One could wonder how much of that cash asset at the CB is from the bad bank.

Yes, but as a general principle it's plain to see that a banks assets must broadly balance their liabilities. i.e. a bank cannot lend 9 times its liabilities. It can alter maturities and take a bigger or smaller 'cut' for doing so (bigger at the mo' obviously), but it doesn't take £10bn in deposits and then lend a further £90bn in assets. Full stop.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23
HOLA4424

:lol::lol::lol:

Please stop, I may die laughing.

Did you find the law that forbids people from making money yet?

I've just checked your blog: "Injin's Alternative Universe"

I understand now. I'm sorry, BIG misunderstanding. I was talking about this universe.

Well, good luck in yours.

And if someday you feel like understanding monetary policy in this universe, just start by Googling... errr... "monetary policy", and go from there.

All the best,

ToW

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24
HOLA4425

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.




×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information