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winkie

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So this applies to pubs, does it then apply to indiviudals as well.

The obscene premiership wages bubble has just burst.

There's never been any ban on individuals using satellite dishes to pick up foreign sports channels. The restriction was on pubs/clubs exhibiting the matches on their big screens to the public. Now that restriction has been lifted. Won't make a huge difference, most big pubs will still want the british Sky Sports HD feed rather than some grainy 4:3 Albanian retransmission.

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There's never been any ban on individuals using satellite dishes to pick up foreign sports channels. The restriction was on pubs/clubs exhibiting the matches on their big screens to the public. Now that restriction has been lifted. Won't make a huge difference, most big pubs will still want the british Sky Sports HD feed rather than some grainy 4:3 Albanian retransmission.

Ta for the clarification.

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Sky, It's called 'competition'.

I hope this lowers footballers' wages.

I also think footballers wages are too high....they are that high they are making the smaller clubs unprofitable, they cannot continue to stay viable if this carries on....the fans make a club, the fans are the club...the rug is being pulled from beneath them. :blink:

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So this applies to pubs, does it then apply to indiviudals as well.

The obscene premiership wages bubble has just burst.

Well, this isn't an ECJ binding ruling (yet), it is merely the opinion of some advocate.

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There's never been any ban on individuals using satellite dishes to pick up foreign sports channels. The restriction was on pubs/clubs exhibiting the matches on their big screens to the public. Now that restriction has been lifted. Won't make a huge difference, most big pubs will still want the british Sky Sports HD feed rather than some grainy 4:3 Albanian retransmission.

Although the free Albanian feed may look far more attractive than the 20 grand one from Sky for many, many pubs.

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Although the free Albanian feed may look far more attractive than the 20 grand one from Sky for many, many pubs.

Who requires commentary anyway....you go to a pub to socialise....pictures will do nicely, or if desperate link in the radio commentary......can't see a problem, I would rather my local pub stays in business personally...less people will be able to afford to buy football at home or go to football matches....football in the pub will bring in worthwhile business, the cheaper it is the less the pint of beer. ;)

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Who requires commentary anyway....you go to a pub to socialise....pictures will do nicely, or if desperate link in the radio commentary......can't see a problem, I would rather my local pub stays in business personally...less people will be able to afford to buy football at home or go to football matches....football in the pub will bring in worthwhile business, the cheaper it is the less the pint of beer. ;)

As the chairman of a local club we had to ditch Sky over 2 years ago, once it went past £400/month, it never paid. And the five people that bithced about it the most did not go elsewhere as elsewhere had also ditched sky.

If the advice of the Advocate General is taken then we will bring it back.

What is with the insistence of modern business to kill the goose that lays the golden egg?

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There's never been any ban on individuals using satellite dishes to pick up foreign sports channels. The restriction was on pubs/clubs exhibiting the matches on their big screens to the public. Now that restriction has been lifted. Won't make a huge difference, most big pubs will still want the british Sky Sports HD feed rather than some grainy 4:3 Albanian retransmission.

being a tight ******* who refuses to feed the football bubble (wish i could do the same with housing!) i watch a number of streams from all over the world.

what interests me is how the commentry will work - any match i watch has english commentry, whether that be from sky,itv or the bbc (normally added into their highlights programs later that day for kick offs that aren't live in the uk,like the 3pm's).

now, if this goes through then are sky going to up the rate for their commentry and/or visual rights to say, al-jazeera sports? that is the only way to keep the price inflated, unless they just don't bid the ludicrous amount in the first place come renewal. either way it all seems to be pointing to a downward spiral in football pricing - can european stations afford £100m to show the epl?

Well, this isn't an ECJ binding ruling (yet), it is merely the opinion of some advocate.

and the above leads me to think the judge will dismiss the advocate's advice in this case. globalisation is only a mirage.

Who requires commentary anyway....you go to a pub to socialise....pictures will do nicely, or if desperate link in the radio commentary......can't see a problem, I would rather my local pub stays in business personally...less people will be able to afford to buy football at home or go to football matches....football in the pub will bring in worthwhile business, the cheaper it is the less the pint of beer. ;)

like i say above, a foreign station doesn't mean foreign commentry.

as another thought, what is to stop all stations having multiple commentry languages on the same matches? the digital era has opened up the opportunity for this.

what this judge and/or the EU comissions decide on EU members competition and rights in the future here is massive imo.

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being a tight ******* who refuses to feed the football bubble (wish i could do the same with housing!) i watch a number of streams from all over the world.

what interests me is how the commentry will work - any match i watch has english commentry, whether that be from sky,itv or the bbc (normally added into their highlights programs later that day for kick offs that aren't live in the uk,like the 3pm's).

So I take it you could still get prosecuted for running a feed from say, Star Sports... Surely most of the other european feeds will be in that countries language? I find that Star Sports (based in Singapore) has its commentary in english, as does Fox Sports. The trouble with trying to hook up pictures & the radio, that there's often a couple of seconds delay, which makes it frustrating to listen to..

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So I take it you could still get prosecuted for running a feed from say, Star Sports... Surely most of the other european feeds will be in that countries language? I find that Star Sports (based in Singapore) has its commentary in english, as does Fox Sports. The trouble with trying to hook up pictures & the radio, that there's often a couple of seconds delay, which makes it frustrating to listen to..

Not being a football fan I have to ask, do you actually need a commentary? There ins't one if you attend a game so is it really necessary?

If so then perhaps this is an interesting business opportunity? Maybe the large pub chains could do their own commentary? A good commentary could be an "upselling" opportunity for the pub, perhaps? I could certainly see the likes of Weatherspoons doing it and the funding would be there from the £20+K a year per site they pay to Mr Murdoch. Besides, if it's the case that people can ditch Sky and watch it on some weird foreign channel then it would seem likely that the broadcaster concerned would includ an English commentary of it's own.

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Not being a football fan I have to ask, do you actually need a commentary? There ins't one if you attend a game so is it really necessary?

If so then perhaps this is an interesting business opportunity? Maybe the large pub chains could do their own commentary? A good commentary could be an "upselling" opportunity for the pub, perhaps? I could certainly see the likes of Weatherspoons doing it and the funding would be there from the £20+K a year per site they pay to Mr Murdoch. Besides, if it's the case that people can ditch Sky and watch it on some weird foreign channel then it would seem likely that the broadcaster concerned would includ an English commentary of it's own.

Commentary (if done well) can certainly add to the game..it also depends if you go into a noisy pub where everyone should over it, or whether its quiet.....You don't really need one if you attend live games, as the crowd provides the atmosphere... That would be interesting, Lloyds Bar / Weatherspoons use a stream, from say a Greek feed, then add their own commentary that can be shown nationwide..

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Commentary (if done well) can certainly add to the game..it also depends if you go into a noisy pub where everyone should over it, or whether its quiet.....You don't really need one if you attend live games, as the crowd provides the atmosphere... That would be interesting, Lloyds Bar / Weatherspoons use a stream, from say a Greek feed, then add their own commentary that can be shown nationwide..

I'm no techie type but I can't see it being too difficult these days. You would just use an internet connection, surely? Another alternative would be to get someone to do it live in the pub. Plenty of space to do it in the modern large drinking barns (They usually have a DJ stand anyway) and if done right would be quite a draw for pub, I would think. That would be dirst cheap and next to free as they are probably employing a DJ anyway.

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I'm no techie type but I can't see it being too difficult these days. You would just use an internet connection, surely? Another alternative would be to get someone to do it live in the pub. Plenty of space to do it in the modern large drinking barns (They usually have a DJ stand anyway) and if done right would be quite a draw for pub, I would think. That would be dirst cheap and next to free as they are probably employing a DJ anyway.

The FA have a rule about no televised games on 3pm on a Saturday, because it may "harm" attendances. What it could mean though, is that premiership clubs will be forced to start lowering their prices in order to get the fans through the turnstyles. Most fans say that it's not the same - watching a game on TV than it is live, however, if you can get a pint of Carling for £2 in a Weatherspoons, rather than being herded into a club bar, asking for £4 quid a pint then paying £40 for a match ticket...I can see a number of fans switching... Lower league clubs shouldn't bee too affected as their games aren't normally shown on Satellite (unless its the FA cup)...

It's a monopoly that needs to be broken, and it could well take Sky down with it... Sky effectively control the TV scheduling. Sky have no interest in the fans...they don't care about fans travelling up from London, up to say Sunderland for a 12.30pm kick-off..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_football_on_television

3pm Blackout

No games kicking off at 3 pm on a Saturday, the traditional British kick-off time, may be broadcast live on television in Britain, with the exceptions of the FA Cup Final and the Scottish Cup Final. This is to ensure attendances at lower league games taking place at the same time as Premier League fixtures that might otherwise be broadcast on television. To avoid this blackout, the last day of the Premier League, when all ten games must kick off simultaneously, is always played on a Sunday.

Live radio broadcasts are permitted, both nationally and locally; these may be simulcast on the internet, depending on the broadcaster. Viewers outside the UK can still watch these games live on foreign broadcasters, thus creating somewhat of a grey market within the UK with viewers able to subscribe to or watch streams of foreign channels.

The Premier League and Sky maintain that, while grey market viewing of games is not illegal on the part of the viewer, it is illegal for anyone (such as a public house) to make such services openly available. This has in the past lead to heavy fines for public houses in the United Kingdom which have shown 3:00 games in their establishments. More recently, the legality of such fines has been disputed, and a number of Crown Court cases have been reported in which publicans successfully challenged the Premier League's position.[13]

In recent years, Sky Sports has shown 3 pm games on tape delay on their Football First show, either in full or as extended highlights.

It has been suggested the majority of Premier League fixtures may take place on a Sunday in the future to increase the value of TV rights.[citation needed]

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Most football clubs treat their fans like shite. They should start remembering that these fans are also their customers.

They just are not interested in listening to what their customers want. In any other industry that would be madness. In football it is standard.

Recent discussions about the Scottish League set up. They did a poll with 4k or so Scottish fans on the proposals. IIRC about 90% said they were against a reduction in the SPL to 10 teams. And over 95% said they had not been adequetely notified/consulted on the proposals.

That same week the proposal for a 10 league team was tabled by all the knobends in charge. :angry:

I think 4 clubs came out and actually went against it in principle - as they knew their own fans (customers) did not want it. The others were the usual arrogant chumps and thought they knew better than their fans. Well these muppets need to start realising without the fans (Customers) there is no business. Nothing.

The sooner some big clubs go properly tits up the better IMO. Most will come back in another form anyway so no great deal.

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Most football clubs treat their fans like shite. They should start remembering that these fans are also their customers.

They just are not interested in listening to what their customers want. In any other industry that would be madness. In football it is standard.

Recent discussions about the Scottish League set up. They did a poll with 4k or so Scottish fans on the proposals. IIRC about 90% said they were against a reduction in the SPL to 10 teams. And over 95% said they had not been adequetely notified/consulted on the proposals.

That same week the proposal for a 10 league team was tabled by all the knobends in charge. :angry:

I think 4 clubs came out and actually went against it in principle - as they knew their own fans (customers) did not want it. The others were the usual arrogant chumps and thought they knew better than their fans. Well these muppets need to start realising without the fans (Customers) there is no business. Nothing.

The sooner some big clubs go properly tits up the better IMO. Most will come back in another form anyway so no great deal.

If this ruling goes ahead, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a couple fail...Sky will negotiate a lower price because they would no longer have a monopoly on televised games in pubs & clubs would have based their financial model on a certain level of revenue stream.

Football is a very strange business...its not like any other...You can't really change clubs willynilly like you would with any other business offering a service. Owners & the board know this, and treat their support for fools. There's an interesting situation at my club (plays in league one) whereby the club owns the ground, but want to sell the (surrounding) land for building on...however, the fans quite rightly are worried that once you start separating the ground away from the club you are asking for trouble, as what's happened at other clubs in this predicament.. The board are not interested in listening to the fans and they will not tell them whats going on.

The way ahead is fan owned clubs...

As for Scottish football, it's a closed shop IMHO, however if the old firm ever pulled out of the SPL, then could the league survive without them?

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Commentary in a foreign language? Not an issue. Only have to watch the games abroad (Nth Africa, Spain, France, Italy etc) to see that fans will cheer/boo at the right times and can easily make their own minds up as they WATCH the game.

It would be easy for someone to make a box for under £100 that synched up the UK radio commentary with the foreign tv pictures. I bet someone is already working on it ;)

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Commentary in a foreign language? Not an issue. Only have to watch the games abroad (Nth Africa, Spain, France, Italy etc) to see that fans will cheer/boo at the right times and can easily make their own minds up as they WATCH the game.

It would be easy for someone to make a box for under £100 that synched up the UK radio commentary with the foreign tv pictures. I bet someone is already working on it ;)

I was thinking that... local radio provided commentary, it just needs to be delayed to match the action.

I really don't blame the local boozers getting a foreign feed (football is one bubble that has to burst) - you get used to the foreign tongue and 'filter' it out.

Pretty much everything in this country is such a rip-off. That's debt-fuelled consumerism for you.

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So I take it you could still get prosecuted for running a feed from say, Star Sports... Surely most of the other european feeds will be in that countries language? I find that Star Sports (based in Singapore) has its commentary in english, as does Fox Sports. The trouble with trying to hook up pictures & the radio, that there's often a couple of seconds delay, which makes it frustrating to listen to..

depends if i'm uploading, and i'm not sure that football was covered in the digital economy bill.

plenty of places to get download only though,and if they make downloading illegal then it's bye-bye to the internet :lol:

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If this ruling goes ahead, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a couple fail...Sky will negotiate a lower price because they would no longer have a monopoly on televised games in pubs & clubs would have based their financial model on a certain level of revenue stream.

Football is a very strange business...its not like any other...You can't really change clubs willynilly like you would with any other business offering a service. Owners & the board know this, and treat their support for fools. There's an interesting situation at my club (plays in league one) whereby the club owns the ground, but want to sell the (surrounding) land for building on...however, the fans quite rightly are worried that once you start separating the ground away from the club you are asking for trouble, as what's happened at other clubs in this predicament.. The board are not interested in listening to the fans and they will not tell them whats going on.

The way ahead is fan owned clubs...

As for Scottish football, it's a closed shop IMHO, however if the old firm ever pulled out of the SPL, then could the league survive without them?

Yep it is all short term thinking. Real shame as because, as you say, these businesses are in quite some enviable situation. How many other businesses have such loyalty from paying customers ?! So are they going to go ahead with it or not ?

As for Scottish football the OF are a burden not a benefit IMO. Suck in fans and money from other clubs and bully lots of the wee clubs too.

Shame because for attendences vs population Scottish football is (IIRC) one of the best supported on the planet.

If we planned ahead and really thought about it the SPL could be a class league. Not in the same level as La iga EPL or whatever. But a really interesting one. Big boys in charge dont want that though. They dont really want competition. They want to win every year.

Get very very very boring. One of the reasons I have not been for a few years. Not going to pay money to a business that treats me like shit.

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Shame because for attendences vs population Scottish football is (IIRC) one of the best supported on the planet.

SPL Average Attendance (% capacity):

Celtic 46,496 (76%)

Rangers 44,789 (89%)

Hearts 14,207 (79%)

Hibs 12,033 (69%)

Aberdeen 10,407 (47%)

Dundee Utd 7,357 (51%)

Kilmarnock 5,673 (31%)

Motherwell 5,095 (35%)

ICT 4,773 (22%)

St Mirren 4,558 (41%)

St Johnston 3,843 (36%)

Hamilton 3,132 (59%)

Even taking into account the smaller population size, those are some embarassing numbers. Somewhere between the Football League 2 and the Blue Square Premier, if you exclude the Old Firm.

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SPL Average Attendance (% capacity):

Celtic 46,496 (76%)

Rangers 44,789 (89%)

Hearts 14,207 (79%)

Hibs 12,033 (69%)

Aberdeen 10,407 (47%)

Dundee Utd 7,357 (51%)

Kilmarnock 5,673 (31%)

Motherwell 5,095 (35%)

ICT 4,773 (22%)

St Mirren 4,558 (41%)

St Johnston 3,843 (36%)

Hamilton 3,132 (59%)

Even taking into account the smaller population size, those are some embarassing numbers. Somewhere between the Football League 2 and the Blue Square Premier, if you exclude the Old Firm.

Really :blink:

Jockland's population is a tenth of England. Do the maths. ;)

And I don't see why you would exclude the OF ? If they didn't suck in so many fans many of those would support their more local teams. The number of people watching the game in Jockland would still be roughly the same. Compare these stats to other countries in Europe with a similar population. I am not biased towards Scottish football - I think it is a joke. However I do know it is amazingly well supported for the pish that people usually have to watch. I have no doubt about that.

PS - Same goes for the national team. Population of 5.5 million and an average home crowd of about 40-45k.

Jockland could be a pretty cracking wee league. If the people in charge were not such arseholes.

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If this ruling goes ahead, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a couple fail...Sky will negotiate a lower price because they would no longer have a monopoly on televised games in pubs & clubs would have based their financial model on a certain level of revenue stream.

Football is a very strange business...its not like any other...You can't really change clubs willynilly like you would with any other business offering a service. Owners & the board know this, and treat their support for fools. There's an interesting situation at my club (plays in league one) whereby the club owns the ground, but want to sell the (surrounding) land for building on...however, the fans quite rightly are worried that once you start separating the ground away from the club you are asking for trouble, as what's happened at other clubs in this predicament.. The board are not interested in listening to the fans and they will not tell them whats going on.

The way ahead is fan owned clubs...

As for Scottish football, it's a closed shop IMHO, however if the old firm ever pulled out of the SPL, then could the league survive without them?

That's a thought that went through my head when it was mentioned that one of the teams in the SuperBowl yesterday were owned by fans, or the town or something. The only one in the NFL, apparently.

I'm not so sure how successful it would be here though. I hate to think how a business would be managed by your average crowd of football fans - you know the untra-fanatical ones who turn up outside the ground whenever they feel that the board "done good" by appointing the local hero as manager or, alternatively (and more usual from what I've seen) that they should be strung up by their testicles depending upon what mood they're in that particualr week. You simply cannot run a multi-million pound business like that and if you tried then the club would probably be bankrupt in less than a season.

What might work is some sort of charitable or other non-profit organisation but even then it sounds rather precarious from a financial point of view. Maybe you could have some sort of municipal club or something but do you really want to have the local authority running something like that? It would though be quite appropriate as people may feel that they have more of a connection to the team if it was run that way?

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  • 284 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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