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Statism Is To Socialism, As Corporatism Is To Capitalism

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Statism is to Socialism, as Corporatism is to Capitalism

discuss

B*llocks

Socialism, capitalism, religion and any/every other damned ideology....

All the same

All of them bullsh*t designed to justify and legitimise the rule and oppression of the many by the few.

You just happened to have bought into one piece of bullsh*t instead over another.

All you need to know is that those who rule us will employ which ever flavour of bullsh*t happens to best preserve their position. Sometimes it has been the "Word of God". At other times, the "Divinity of Kings. Latterly, it has taken the form of a number of "isms". Some of them designed for the purpose, some of them hijacked for the purpose in short order.

All of them serving the same purpose.

Everything else is details.

Edited by tallguy

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Wasnt Corporatism one of Mussolinis ideas to meld the public and private into one. (enthusiastically adopted by messrs. Bliar and Brown)

Socialisation of losses, privatization of profits.

Doesnt sound much different to communism to me.

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Both the socialist and the capitalist elites are very keen to apply their principles to other people- but would not dream of being bound by such principles themselves.

This is the problem. I think it is built in to all of us.

A while back I mused (only mused not actually seriously considered) setting up a commune/art community somewhere cheap or perhaps self build.

My first thought was that it would be a proper little hippy commune. Everyone pitching in with their skills to build everyone's homes, a carpenter to make the furniture, a plumber to plumb all the houses, a chef to make the hummous!, Everyone get's a vote on what happens.

My SECOND thought (within seconds of the first) was, "well as long as I can over rule the decisions I don't agree with", and "as long as we live in the nicest of the houses!"

Was only minutes away from designing my own statue for the village square!

Oh boy, either I'm particularly screwed up, or we all are!

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B*llocks

Socialism, capitalism, religion and any/every other damned ideology....

All the same

All of them bullsh*t designed to justify and legitimise the rule and oppression of the many by the few.

You just happened to have bought into one piece of bullsh*t instead over another.

All you need to know is that those who rule us will employ which ever flavour of bullsh*t happens to best preserve their position. Sometimes it has been the "Word of God". At other times, the "Divinity of Kings. Latterly, it has taken the form of a number of "isms". Some of them designed for the purpose, some of them hijacked for the purpose in short order.

All of them serving the same purpose.

Everything else is details.

This is very true. It has always been the way and will always be the way

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B*llocks

Socialism, capitalism, religion and any/every other damned ideology....

All the same

All of them bullsh*t designed to justify and legitimise the rule and oppression of the many by the few.

You just happened to have bought into one piece of bullsh*t instead over another.

All you need to know is that those who rule us will employ which ever flavour of bullsh*t happens to best preserve their position. Sometimes it has been the "Word of God". At other times, the "Divinity of Kings. Latterly, it has taken the form of a number of "isms". Some of them designed for the purpose, some of them hijacked for the purpose in short order.

All of them serving the same purpose.

Everything else is details.

You're Benjamin The Donkey and I claim my £5.

Edited by Soon Not a Chain Retailer

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Statism is to Socialism, as Corporatism is to Capitalism

discuss

Yep. Good point.

That is why liberal market democracies need very strong anti-trust mechanisms.

Well, at least a corporation doesn't control the police force, like a Socialist government does.

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B*llocks

Socialism, capitalism, religion and any/every other damned ideology....

All the same

All of them bullsh*t designed to justify and legitimise the rule and oppression of the many by the few.

You just happened to have bought into one piece of bullsh*t instead over another.

All you need to know is that those who rule us will employ which ever flavour of bullsh*t happens to best preserve their position. Sometimes it has been the "Word of God". At other times, the "Divinity of Kings. Latterly, it has taken the form of a number of "isms". Some of them designed for the purpose, some of them hijacked for the purpose in short order.

All of them serving the same purpose.

Everything else is details.

So all countries are the same? Sweden and the USA? Or Belarus?

Some systems are fairer than others.

The more wisely regulated liberal democracy are fairer systems than under-regulated or over-regulated ones.

Good governance is important.

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B*llocks

Socialism, capitalism, religion and any/every other damned ideology....

All the same

All of them bullsh*t designed to justify and legitimise the rule and oppression of the many by the few.

You just happened to have bought into one piece of bullsh*t instead over another.

All you need to know is that those who rule us will employ which ever flavour of bullsh*t happens to best preserve their position. Sometimes it has been the "Word of God". At other times, the "Divinity of Kings. Latterly, it has taken the form of a number of "isms". Some of them designed for the purpose, some of them hijacked for the purpose in short order.

All of them serving the same purpose.

Everything else is details.

Any alternatives?

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Capitalism is the antedote to Statism, Corporatism, and socialism.

Indeed Corporatism has no place in a true Capitalist economy.

I have never seen true Capitalism - our politicians have no intention of letting me live under such a system whilst they can line their pockets from the the Corporations.

My leaders make rules that crush my aspirations but benefit the corporations even though they have no vote.

Nope capitalism has no place for corporatism.

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Statism is to Socialism, as Corporatism is to Capitalism

discuss

both are fine theoretical ideals and i wouldnt mind living under either, the weakness behind both are people so neither ideal is actually achievable, given that the benefit Capitalism has over Socialism is that it takes longer for the power to be accrued and the system destroyed

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All you need to know is that those who rule us will employ which ever flavour of bullsh*t happens to best preserve their position. Sometimes it has been the "Word of God". At other times, the "Divinity of Kings. Latterly, it has taken the form of a number of "isms". Some of them designed for the purpose, some of them hijacked for the purpose in short order.

All of them serving the same purpose.

that is how we work. we evolved from social primates who formed themselves into groups of about 10-30, with a single dominant male. All human society in history and that of our species phylum is of this nature.

Everything else is details.

everything else is language. Language is the only think that allows the extension of social groups to sizes greater than can be line-of-sight dominated by one individual. From language comes laws, culture, religion and -isms.

railing against social hierarchy is akin to denial of our biological heritage. We are not machines, we are monkeys.

Capitalism is just monkey-business.

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Language is the only think that allows the extension of social groups to sizes greater than can be line-of-sight dominated by one individual.

Nope its energy that allows this to take place not language.

Energy has allowed us to extend beyond small social groups.

All empires have needed acces to energy from slaves to the wind, firewood, oil "the ghost slave" etc.

Language is not responsible for the increase in trade globally over thousands of years.

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Nope its energy that allows this to take place not language.

having energy doesn't assist in projecting social control beyond the zone of control of a single dominant male, for which language is absolutely required in order to have commands projected over distance and remembered,.

note that farming and hunting and collecting firewood is not energy extraction.

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Yep. Good point.

That is why liberal market democracies need very strong anti-trust mechanisms.

True, but the big productive benefits of capitalism derive from scale.

A lot of free marketeers seem to hanker after a sort of post mediaeval cottage industry type society.

And it's not only socialists who need to take account of "human nature".

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Capitalism is the antedote to Statism, Corporatism, and socialism.

Indeed Corporatism has no place in a true Capitalist economy.

The State has no place in true Socialism, since true Socialism means that the people own the means of production

& not some proxy such as the State.

Of course Marx argued that the means of production be put in the hands of the State to vanguard the revolution & since

he won the idealogical battles in the first international & the socialists who opposed the state (anarchists) lost, then

that became the prevailing concept which inspired the monstrosities in the USSR, China & elsewhere & has seen

socialism associated with the State ever since.

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The State has no place in true Socialism, since true Socialism means that the people own the means of production

& not some proxy such as the State.

Of course Marx argued that the means of production be put in the hands of the State to vanguard the revolution & since

he won the idealogical battles in the first international & the socialists who opposed the state (anarchists) lost, then

that became the prevailing concept which inspired the monstrosities in the USSR, China & elsewhere & has seen

socialism associated with the State ever since.

I agree, but in both a socialist or a mixed economy, is there not a role for the state in owning the natural monopolies e.g. roads,

railways, power distribution etc.?

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B*llocks

Socialism, capitalism, religion and any/every other damned ideology....

All the same

All of them bullsh*t designed to justify and legitimise the rule and oppression of the many by the few.

You just happened to have bought into one piece of bullsh*t instead over another.

+1

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having energy doesn't assist in projecting social control beyond the zone of control of a single dominant male, for which language is absolutely required in order to have commands projected over distance and remembered,.

note that farming and hunting and collecting firewood is not energy extraction.

and here is the evidence for the above:

Population%20and%20Per%20Capita%20Energy.jpg

if gravity was right then the gradient of world trade would be as flat as per capita energy use since AD 0 but of course that is not the case.

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